Toy$$$ for the Boy$$$$
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  1. #1
    JBN
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    Default Toy$$$ for the Boy$$$$

    On TV tonight they unveiled a new super dooper police car fully of high tech gizmos. From memory it had:
    • number plate recognition able to process up to 20,000 number plates per 8 hour shift
    • forward radar speed detection able to detect up to four lanes
    • rearward radar speed detection also able to detect up to four lanes
    • all the other normal stuff and probably some things I missed
    The closing statement amused me. The car apparently costs about $100,000. They reckoned that in a (my term) target rich environment, it could repay itself in a day!!!!

    There was also a run down on average speeds during peak hour in Sydney. The bad roads averaged about 26kph and the other major roads (and expressways) were about 35kph.

    The only person(s) to make the news for driving too fast today were three young blokes in a stolen Commodore being pursued by police. They jumped the centre kerb and drove up the wrong way of the Hume Highway before driving up a ramp the wrong way and having a head on crash, killing the innocent driver of the other car. Fortunately they were caught. Apparently that is the sixth death resulting from a police pursuit in NSW this year. Two I know were totally innocent. The guilty will not receive a death sentence, not anything like it.

    Rather than changing the behaviour and attitudes of the guilty, it seems that high technology and windfall revenues are the way to go. Hey, the road toll will drop with the safety improvements made by car manufacturers, so why waste money on improving roads when it is easier to milk the motorist without solving the problems.

    Tomorrow is another day.

    John

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    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Certainly a toy.

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    Yah here in the US in Connecticut they just launched the license plate recognition...of course the rear facing radar detection is because they're driving faster than everyone else...y'know heading for that emergency donut and coffee...

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    Watched the show, and if the comment that it may recoup its cost in a day confirms, without any doubt, that revenue collection is the priority for the policy makers. Bet we will see a few more of these money making machines in the near future.

    Alexander, a bar code on clothing is too easy to change, tattoed on the forehead would be more effective! In reality a microchip, implanted under the skin and also attached to items like credit cards, may not be too far away.

    All for our own good, of course!

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    Quote Originally Posted by fento View Post
    Alexander, a bar code on clothing is too easy to change, tattoed on the forehead would be more effective! In reality a microchip, implanted under the skin and also attached to items like credit cards, may not be too far away.
    Too Lo Tech, why not just use our own personal id number (DNA) and do it Gataca style...

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    JBN
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    It makes one glad that we live in the Free World and not a dictatorship.

    I would have hated to live in Stalin's Russia or Hitler's Germany. Not so much because of the methods they used to control the population, mainly because I can't speak Russian or German.

    John

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    Default toys for the boys

    You don't need the supa-dupa machines when you have a Toyota Landcruiser Trayback. The WA Police are now patrolling the roads of Mandurah and no doubt elsewhere in an umarked 2010 silver Toyota 4x4 Landcruiser tray back ute with no external flashing lights, which are housed behind the windscreen. I have no issues with the police apprehending speedsters but I don't condone unmarked cars which does nothing to keep traffic within the limits. One marked police cars will slow hundreds of vehicles and if there were more marked cars on the road there would be less speeding .......... Am I right?

    JP - SIMCA MAN

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    John,

    Heil, Comrade,

    Welcome to OZ.

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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by panhard View Post
    You don't need the supa-dupa machines when you have a Toyota Landcruiser Trayback. The WA Police are now patrolling the roads of Mandurah and no doubt elsewhere in an umarked 2010 silver Toyota 4x4 Landcruiser tray back ute with no external flashing lights, which are housed behind the windscreen. I have no issues with the police apprehending speedsters but I don't condone unmarked cars which does nothing to keep traffic within the limits. One marked police cars will slow hundreds of vehicles and if there were more marked cars on the road there would be less speeding .......... Am I right?

    JP - SIMCA MAN
    Park a marked Highway Patrol car sideways on the highest hill and switch on the flashing lights. The policeman could have the day off and he would have done more to get the traffic to behave. By behave, I mean people watching their speed, keeping to the left lane, desisting from making mobile calls, getting off the tail of the car in front, indicating when changing lanes, etc, etc.

    But it wouldn't raise a cent.

    John

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    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    On TV tonight they unveiled a new super dooper police car fully of high tech gizmos. From memory it had:
    • number plate recognition able to process up to 20,000 number plates per 8 hour shift
    • forward radar speed detection able to detect up to four lanes
    • rearward radar speed detection also able to detect up to four lanes
    • all the other normal stuff and probably some things I missed

    The closing statement amused me. The car apparently costs about $100,000. They reckoned that in a (my term) target rich environment, it could repay itself in a day!!!!

    There was also a run down on average speeds during peak hour in Sydney. The bad roads averaged about 26kph and the other major roads (and expressways) were about 35kph.

    The only person(s) to make the news for driving too fast today were three young blokes in a stolen Commodore being pursued by police. They jumped the centre kerb and drove up the wrong way of the Hume Highway before driving up a ramp the wrong way and having a head on crash, killing the innocent driver of the other car. Fortunately they were caught. Apparently that is the sixth death resulting from a police pursuit in NSW this year. Two I know were totally innocent. The guilty will not receive a death sentence, not anything like it.

    Rather than changing the behaviour and attitudes of the guilty, it seems that high technology and windfall revenues are the way to go. Hey, the road toll will drop with the safety improvements made by car manufacturers, so why waste money on improving roads when it is easier to milk the motorist without solving the problems.

    Tomorrow is another day.

    John
    Numberplate recognition is a bad thing? Detecting unregistered and stolen vehicles?

    Sixth death from a police pursuit? Sorry, any deaths are the fault of the driver of the 'bad' vehicle, not by the police who are doing their job.

    JBN and Alexander trolling the 'bash the cops' thread again? How tiresome...

    Dave
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  11. #11
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    Numberplate recognition is a bad thing? Detecting unregistered and stolen vehicles?

    Sixth death from a police pursuit? Sorry, any deaths are the fault of the driver of the 'bad' vehicle, not by the police who are doing their job.

    JBN and Alexander trolling the 'bash the cops' thread again? How tiresome...

    Dave
    No, I am not saying number plate recognition is a bad thing. I was just reporting some of the high tech features of the car, which escalated the price of the Commodore to $100K. The point I made was that on the program, they said that they could recover that in an 8 hour shift. It is the focus of money over policing that that worries me.

    I don't have a lot of compassion for those being chased being killed in that they brought it upon themselves. Of the 6 deaths, certainly 2 were innocent people not connected in anyway to the pursuit and that is a shame. I don't know the status of the 4 others.

    Would the innocent loss of life have occurred had the chase not taken place? The police are doing their job and have guidelines for chasing cars. However, cars being driven at high speed is dangerous to others. Cars being chased at high speed are even far more dangerous, as those being chased are fully focused on escape, not thrills. Fight or flight is a very strong basic instinct, and as an instinct rather than a considered action, morality and good sense and common sense have no effect.

    Finally, I am not bashing cops. Even if I wanted to, they are too hard to find, at least on the roads. I am questioning the usefulness of the high tech tools that is becoming close to 100% of our road safety approach. We have to keep pushing SPEED as the main problem as that is the major one that we have an answer for. The fact that the road toll is higher than people want could be interpreted as to either speed not being the full extent to the problem or speed cameras not being the full extent to the solution. To then go and introduce more speed cameras and more gadgets starts to beggar belief. It certainly makes people like me wonder if anyone has properly diagnosed the problem. It seems more like they have found a great solution, which they attempt to use regardless.

    Cops parked in visible lacations with flashing lights modify driver behaviour, instantly. Covert measures antagonish the public and make us question what sort of society we have become. If those covert measures send out an automated infringement notice 6 weeks later, its next to useless. The offence has continued and been forgotten by the time they have been notified. That's not prevention, its just revenge.

    John

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    Telling the public that the majority of them are hopeless drivers, is not going to be a popular solution. Introducing a 'gadget' that's going to keep everyone safe henceforth, is more likely to be a popular solution.

    My drive down to Austinmer and back yesterday I encountered quite a few people who really should not have a licence. Including a P-plater, who wasn't speeding. In fact, going about 25km/h under the speed limit in the right lane, and maintaining that speed. What frightens me is that they just don't get it.

    I approach at 110km/h in cruise control. I start flashing my high beams to try and wake them up. I then disengage cruise so I have full control for the manouvre into the left lane. Dodge some cars, and basically cut them off as I squeeze myself back into the right lane (everyone in the left lane typically does 95-100km/h in the 110 zone). Once in front, I give them a few flashes of my hazard lights. The car that was behind me, executes the same dangerous manouvre to get around them.

    I watch in my rear view mirror, and they stay in the right lane. Surely they would get the message that they should be in the left if they want to drive 85km/h in a 110 zone? Surely they can read the MASSIVE signs that say KEEP F*ING LEFT UNLESS F*CKING OVERTAKING YOU FOOL!

    The most dangerous thing I (and lots of other cars) do on freeways is the quick 'dogdge three cars to overtake' manouvre. It is a million times more dangerous than cruising at 150km/h in an empty lane.

    People who keep right going under the speed limit when there's no reason for them not to move left SHOULD LOSE THEIR LICENCE ON THE SPOT. I think they should get a public flogging as well. You know, town centre style, pants down, and flog like there's no tomorrow. Their dangerous disinterested behaviour can result in deaths as they antagonise other road users.
    Cheers,
    Patrick
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  13. #13
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Sounds like it's time to bring out the old chestnut again:

    P Plater fined for driving to slow

    I'm not sure who's teaching these kids, but it appears to be something that stays for a long time.

    I work with many people that exit the M5 tunnel and proceed straight into the far right lane and drive along Airport Drive (at 10km/h under the speed limit) because they need to turn right, 3.1km down the road.

    Who knows why they do the things they do, but I've given up flashing lights and such stuff and waiting for them to "do the right thing" - I simply ignore them and go around when it's safe.
    Regards,

    Simon

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post

    Cops parked in visible lactations with flashing lights
    There, fixed!

    Tim

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    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Oh dear!
    Someone has had the gall to be sharing the the road again with Patrick.
    The bloody cheek.

  16. #16
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    Re the last 2 replys it is illegal to overtake on the left above 80kph so what is the answer.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2CV David View Post
    Re the last 2 replys it is illegal to overtake on the left above 80kph so what is the answer.
    Where is it illegal to do so??

    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ810 View Post
    Telling the public that the majority of them are hopeless drivers, is not going to be a popular solution. Introducing a 'gadget' that's going to keep everyone safe henceforth, is more likely to be a popular solution.

    My drive down to Austinmer and back yesterday I encountered quite a few people who really should not have a licence. Including a P-plater, who wasn't speeding. In fact, going about 25km/h under the speed limit in the right lane, and maintaining that speed. What frightens me is that they just don't get it.

    I approach at 110km/h in cruise control. I start flashing my high beams to try and wake them up. I then disengage cruise so I have full control for the manouvre into the left lane. Dodge some cars, and basically cut them off as I squeeze myself back into the right lane (everyone in the left lane typically does 95-100km/h in the 110 zone). Once in front, I give them a few flashes of my hazard lights. The car that was behind me, executes the same dangerous manouvre to get around them.

    I watch in my rear view mirror, and they stay in the right lane. Surely they would get the message that they should be in the left if they want to drive 85km/h in a 110 zone? Surely they can read the MASSIVE signs that say KEEP F*ING LEFT UNLESS F*CKING OVERTAKING YOU FOOL!

    The most dangerous thing I (and lots of other cars) do on freeways is the quick 'dogdge three cars to overtake' manouvre. It is a million times more dangerous than cruising at 150km/h in an empty lane.

    People who keep right going under the speed limit when there's no reason for them not to move left SHOULD LOSE THEIR LICENCE ON THE SPOT. I think they should get a public flogging as well. You know, town centre style, pants down, and flog like there's no tomorrow. Their dangerous disinterested behaviour can result in deaths as they antagonise other road users.

    The only time in my life I have seen somebody pulled over for blocking the overtaking lane was in Germany, I wept tears of joy upon witnessing this.

    Back home hear in Queensland I know I will never see such a sight again and this makes me weep tears of sadness.

    It seems there is nothing we can do when the lure of big fines for speeding stands in the way of sense.

  19. #19
    Veni Vidi Posti 68 404's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2CV David View Post
    Re the last 2 replys it is illegal to overtake on the left above 80kph so what is the answer.
    Let me be the first to cry: 'bullshit!"

    It's an urban myth that seems to be self perpetuating.

    Dave
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    Quote Originally Posted by 68 404 View Post
    Let me be the first to cry: 'bullshit!"

    It's an urban myth that seems to be self perpetuating.

    Dave
    Exactly. It is perfectly legal to overtake in the left. It isn't legal in many other countries, but there they fine you like there's no tomorrow if you're found in the overtaking lane.... not overtaking.

    I'm not fussed about a green P-plater being nervous and not wanting to drive over 80km/h on the 110 section of the F6 freeway, with no exits for the next dozen or so kilometers. But they should do so in the LEFT lane.

    Didn't ANYBODY teach these kids to drive?

    I would like to see a law introduced where idiots can't teach their kids to drive. If this means doing what they do in many other countries, and only allow officially qualified driving instructors to teach people to drive, who need to log day time, night time, rain time and freeway time with their students, then I am all for it. Then MAYBE in 30 or 40 years we'll have a group of drivers who are going to be slightly more competent and less dangerous thatn the pool of clueless nohopers we currently have to deal with.
    Cheers,
    Patrick
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Who knows why they do the things they do, but I've given up flashing lights and such stuff and waiting for them to "do the right thing" - I simply ignore them and go around when it's safe.
    Often it isn't safe and it isn't going to be safe. There's a string of cars in the left, travelling slightly too closely together, at slightly under the speed limit. The next turn off is Melbourne... for example... and there's a nutter going a further 5-10km/h under the limit compared to those in the left lane. And there's barely enough space to squeeze your car in there because they're all tailgating at 100km/h in the 110 zone because they're so paranoid of getting caught speeding all they're doing is staring at the bumper bar in front of them. It's really frightening stuff. I feel SOOOOO much safer driving 200km/h in the rain in Germany where there's 500m of clear space in front of my car at all times.
    Cheers,
    Patrick
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    2014 Volvo XC70 Luxury D5 Polestar (Ice White)
    2012 Mercedes Benz C250 (Alabandite)

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  22. #22
    JBN
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    Fortunately, all the cars I drive have steering wheels, so I don't care which lane I use to overtake.

    In the UK is was supposedly illegal, but it was efficient. As soon as there were stoplights in the fast lane of the M25 London Orbital, I would change to the centre lane and if there was braking in that lane I would go to the slow lane and unravel the lot when things went back to normal and I would go back to the fast lane where I belonged. Just a neat trick of rarely having to brake by steering to the area of least traffic. Still drive the 2CV like that today, but the fast lane is not its natural habitat.

    Sorry about my typo about lactating police. I wasn't being sexist, I think location may have been the word I was looking for.

    As to who should teach others to drive, I taught my youngest daughter to drive, because the driver from the NRMA Driving School was useless. She was taught by driving to work in peak hour and then being picked up at work and driving for an hour after work. As we were moving into winter, each day there was less light, with mid winter being always in the dark.

    There was no consideration as to what the weather was. She had a lot of wet weather driving. Everything was logged. I had the advantage in that I had a vested interest in producing a driver that I wanted to be able to survive. I also was able to impart what I had learned in 45 years (at the time) of driving experience.

    In the 2 1/2 years she has had her licence, she has had no driving infringements, no accidents apart from parking dents. The elder daughter who didn't want to be taught by me, went to driving schools. All she got from me was my bad habits (from observation as a passenger) and she lost her licence speeding on 3 occasions in her first 18 months of driving.

    I taught my wife to drive. I am fortunate that I can divorce emotion from fact. Most others in that situation don't progress further than the divorce bit. With the onerous hours one has to log, it is not practical to pay for all the lessons. I am sure Dave and Ken and others would prefer having licenced drivers on our roads, rather than unlicenced ones.

    For certain offences committed during the Probationary period, I think having a mechansim whereby the fine and maybe some of the points could be waived if the driver completed an appropriate Driver Safety course to a 'passed' level. It would seem to be a far more positive and productive way rather than just a penalty.

    John

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    John, I'm sure you are capable of teaching your children to drive better than the majority of driving schools could. And I'm sure there are other 'enthusiasts' on this forum who, likewise, would be better teachers. But overall, that's a minority of the population. And there's nothing stopping you, as a parent, to continue the teaching process after a child has gained his or her licence through a formalised process.

    I consider driving to be an ongoing learning process. Experience builds up, cars change (unless you stick to your 2CV for life!) and your reflexes diminish with age.

    I do think that if we all had to learn through certified driving schools, the expectations we'd place on those would be higher than they are now. Also, we could probably do away with the ridiculous hours that currently need to be (fraudulently) logged.

    I remember L-Trent used to (and probably still) promote that braking into/out of corners was perfectly acceptable with modern vehicles. My parents warned me against this. Further reading, experimentation, and practise has made me appreciate how to drive a car through a corner. I see it as advantageous to balance a car correctly at all times, even when driving at normal slow speeds. The practice of always driving 'correctly' means you're going to be better in an emergency situation when you're going to have to rely on your experience.
    Cheers,
    Patrick
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    1995 Peugeot 605SV (Bianca White) *SOLD*
    2007 Volvo XC70 Electric Silver (PJ-810)
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    2014 Volvo XC70 Luxury D5 Polestar (Ice White)
    2012 Mercedes Benz C250 (Alabandite)

    Past:
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts schlitzaugen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexander View Post

    [...] if you have done nothing wrong, you will have nothing to fear.
    Then of course if you're a brasilian electrician working in London, you've already done something wrong, no barcodes needed.

    Regarding overtaking in the left lane, I am familiar with some legislations where there is a distinction being made between "passing" and "overtaking", i.e. two vehicles driving abreast at different speeds are not considered to be engaged in an overtaking manouvre (they are just passing each other). I am not sure where the distinction is made though, but I guess one could argue that changing lanes, passing and then changing lanes back again would be overtaking. Also, the aformentioned legislations require that an indicator light be on at all times during an overtaking manouvre.
    Last edited by schlitzaugen; 6th December 2010 at 02:41 PM.

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