The cost of keeping an old frog on the road.
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Renomad's Avatar
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    Default The cost of keeping an old frog on the road.

    I was cleaning out the garage the other day and came across a bunch of old receipts for my recently sold '83 Fuego, which I bought in 1987 for $14,000.
    I had the Fuego for 23 years and in the early days I was paying people to do the work on my car, but as the years went by I gained confidence and experiance and started doing alot of the work myself, so it got a little cheaper.
    At the start the Fuego had a few electrical issues and it took a couple of years to find competent and trustworthy auto electrian, unfortunately he has since retired!

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    Here's the list services and parts:-
    A/C services x3
    A/C repairs x2
    Alternator/regulator rebuilds x3
    Batteries x4
    Brake hoses x1
    Cam belts x3
    Clutch x1
    Carby overhaul X2
    Disc rotors x1
    Dizzy seal x2
    Exhaust repairs x3
    Electrical repairs x2
    Engine seal (rear) x1
    Engine mount (front) x2
    Front wheel bearings x1
    Fuel pumps x3
    Head reconditioned x1
    Interior retrim x1
    Master Cylinder x1
    Rear wheel bearings x1
    Respray x2 (once by my brother-in-law, once prefessionally)
    Steering bush (LH) x2
    Steering boots x1
    Tie rod (LH) x1 (RH) x1
    Tune up x2
    Tyres x8
    Windscreen x1

    All of this came to a total of $18,732.28, not bad for 23 years of service I thought, but then I realised it didn't include rego, insurance, which at the start was expensive as I was under 25 and other consumables such as oil, brake pads & shoes, sparkplugs, coolant, etc, etc.
    And this is just for one frog, most of the time I had 2 frogs and another car in the driveway!
    No wonder you often read about people not wanting to know how much they have put into their cars over the years!
    Cheers Renomad

    "Today's mighty oak, is just yesterdays nut that held it's ground"

    Current frogs, Dad's R19 & Dad's Scenic.

    Past frogs, R12 Wagon X2, R12GL, Fuego X2, R10 X2, R8 X.5!


  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! sideways_505's Avatar
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    I haven't bought a single part for either of mine.... Yet. When the 505s alternator died I nicked the one off my spare parts car and modified the wiring to fit it (spare parts car was $450 but I have aspirations of getting that on the road again).

    The 403 is about to get VERY expensive though it came with about $10k worth of receipts too!

    I've only had the 505 for a year and a half and the 403 for 10 months (on the road for about 3 ) though.

    Thanks

    Hayden

  3. #3
    JBN
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    At first glance of the title, I thought this was something about the amount of canetoads on the road in North Queensland on a rainy day.

    Last week I was given a lift by a friend who has a 3 year old Falcon, that has done 30,000kms. He is thinking of upgrading to a new one (same model). The changeover price is $15,000. So, it has cost him 50c a kilometre, plus servicing costs. I think the tyres are original.

    John

  4. #4
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    Yes depreciation on new cars is a killer. Maybe it's less on some cars (VW Golfs if you changed them at around the 3 year mark before a new model came out you hardly lost any money).

    Even secondhand cars have taken a bit of a bath in recent years. If you can buy something well maintained, secondhand and in great condition... that's the trick!

  5. #5
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    I just looked at the invoices I have for the 406 - I think they totalled around the 5k mark for around 5 years of use, including the gearbox going bang and the timing belt and ancillaries.

    Although, I'm now a DIY pro at servicing - so I should be able to save some coin in that regard.
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

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  6. #6
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    I just did a quick total of all the receipts I have on hand for the 504 diesel. Excluding consumables (oil, filters, tyres, batteries, coolant, brake pads) the total over 29 years comes to $6800. The single biggest items were $1300 for new brakes and rear shocks, $1180 for a new clutch, tailshaft and s/h diff (after metal fragments were found), $580 for a head recondition and $500 for a radiator re-core. This figure is reasonably accurate as it accounts for all the major items that I am aware of.

    I am probably approaching that figure for the Discovery after seven years!
    Stephen
    '03 P406 HDI
    '16 Renault Master

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Fingers's Avatar
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    I looked up the records on a customers car at my previous employer a while back.
    Customer had bought this Falcon new in '98 for approximately $40k, and had spent approximately $40k on service, repairs, tyres etc at the dealership in the 12 years and 400K that he drove it. (pretty much everything had been done at the dealer)
    Pretty good in comparison to trading at 40K and wearing the depreciation.

  8. #8
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    I have spent a fair bit on the last two 504s I've owned, but most of it has been on upgrades and improvements, rather than repairs. I've had a particularly good run with the current 504, although I've only done 20000 kays in it so far.

    The 405 before the 504s was forever costing me, just to maintain the status quo!
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  9. #9
    Should get a life 2353's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J'aime la vie View Post
    Yes depreciation on new cars is a killer. Maybe it's less on some cars (VW Golfs if you changed them at around the 3 year mark before a new model came out you hardly lost any money).

    Even secondhand cars have taken a bit of a bath in recent years. If you can buy something well maintained, secondhand and in great condition... that's the trick!
    Both of our French cars are demos (one a Manufacturer fleet car, the other a Dealer "loaner" car). We bought our Renault 6 months old with nearly 6000k on it for around $10,000 off the "drive away" price and the Peugeot 3 months old with nearly 3000k on it for around $5,000 off the "drive away" price.

    Fair enough we didn't get to choose colours or "factory" options - but it makes sense to us to look for demos - the only difference we can tell is that one door trim on the Renault has a small tear that was sewn up.
    Save the earth, it's the only planet with chocolate.

  10. #10
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    There are so many variables in running costs it would be almost impossible to compare vehicles. Attitude towards the vehicle is a significant factor, however.

    My 86 year old ute uses a set of tyres every eight to ten years, a battery every six to eight years, plus rego, insurance (third party property only), oil (lots), water and fuel. Mileage approx 8 to 10K per year. Seldom washed, last polished at least 8 years ago. Paid $2,500 for it nearly 40 years ago. Current worth 8 - 10K??

    My road cars are bought for about $1,000 and used for approx 10 years. Kept up to scratch mechanically, rust proofed and serviced reguarly but otherwise neglected. Cost per mile unknown, but as I do not pay for having any work done it would be fairly low. Looking at some cars fitted with flash wheels, stereos, special paint jobs, etc, I shudder to think what the costs of these cars would be.

    Was told of a recent service & upgrade of a near new Lamborghini that came to near $80,000! This would have to be an extreme example, tho.

    Fento

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! sideways_505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fento View Post

    My 86 year old ute uses a set of tyres every eight to ten years, a battery every six to eight years, plus rego, insurance (third party property only), oil (lots), water and fuel. Mileage approx 8 to 10K per year. Seldom washed, last polished at least 8 years ago. Paid $2,500 for it nearly 40 years ago. Current worth 8 - 10K??
    I'm going to have to bite, what is your ute?? Pictures please!

    Thanks

    Hayden

  12. #12
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    Default Ute

    Hayden,

    Not a Froggy, but Pommy. 1924 Bean 30 Cwt flat tray lorry. Original, full rego. Classed as a ute by Qld. Transport.

    Dunno how to post pictures, sorry.

    Regards,

    Fento

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by sideways_505 View Post
    it came with about $10k worth of receipts too!
    You're doing well if that $10K is spread over more than just the one receipt...

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! sideways_505's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fento View Post
    Hayden,

    Not a Froggy, but Pommy. 1924 Bean 30 Cwt flat tray lorry. Original, full rego. Classed as a ute by Qld. Transport.

    Dunno how to post pictures, sorry.

    Regards,

    Fento
    Jealous! To post pictures, when your making a post if you scroll down to past the submit button, there's a button labelled manage attachments. Click on that and a pop up type thing will appear, on that you click on the choose file button then find you file, click upload and wait for it to load and your done!

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ810 View Post
    You're doing well if that $10K is spread over more than just the one receipt...
    Yep, ironically, I bought the car for $1500.

    Thanks

    Hayden

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renomad View Post
    I was cleaning out the garage the other day and came across a bunch of old receipts for my recently sold '83 Fuego, which I bought in 1987 for $14,000.
    I had the Fuego for 23 years and in the early days I was paying people to do the work on my car, but as the years went by I gained confidence and experiance and started doing alot of the work myself, so it got a little cheaper.
    At the start the Fuego had a few electrical issues and it took a couple of years to find competent and trustworthy auto electrian, unfortunately he has since retired!

    Here's the list services and parts:-
    A/C services x3
    A/C repairs x2
    Alternator/regulator rebuilds x3
    Batteries x4
    Brake hoses x1
    Cam belts x3
    Clutch x1
    Carby overhaul X2
    Disc rotors x1
    Dizzy seal x2
    Exhaust repairs x3
    Electrical repairs x2
    Engine seal (rear) x1
    Engine mount (front) x2
    Front wheel bearings x1
    Fuel pumps x3
    Head reconditioned x1
    Interior retrim x1
    Master Cylinder x1
    Rear wheel bearings x1
    Respray x2 (once by my brother-in-law, once prefessionally)
    Steering bush (LH) x2
    Steering boots x1
    Tie rod (LH) x1 (RH) x1
    Tune up x2
    Tyres x8
    Windscreen x1

    All of this came to a total of $18,732.28, not bad for 23 years of service I thought, but then I realised it didn't include rego, insurance, which at the start was expensive as I was under 25 and other consumables such as oil, brake pads & shoes, sparkplugs, coolant, etc, etc.
    And this is just for one frog, most of the time I had 2 frogs and another car in the driveway!
    No wonder you often read about people not wanting to know how much they have put into their cars over the years!
    I'm assuming that based on 3 x cam changes the car has done around 300K?

    If that is the case then the only really odd things on that list are the "Alternator/regulator rebuilds x3" and the "Fuel pumps x3"

    The altenator on my Fuego failed the day I bought it (at 100K) but as the diodes were fried, I think it was killed by the dealer charging the battery with the leads connected or similar as I never had any other problems in 200K.

    The "head reconditioned x1" is perhaps a little odd too (unless it was cooked)

    The reast is stuff which does wear out and apart from the engine mounts which are a weak point, the rest is pretty normal for a well maintained 27 year old car.

    Obviously the interior trim and respray aren't service items, but hey, if you want a yellow Fuego

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    If you think that was expensive running. Price the depreciation and service costs of a 4year old PSA vehicle that done about 80,000kms Depreciation alone is a killer.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Depreciation alone is a killer.
    For some it is a tax write off.

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ810 View Post
    For some it is a tax write off.
    It still very expensive to own a new car. The greatest benefit is you dont' have to worry about it stopping or breaking. If it stops, you get a courtesy car and it's fixed for free. It costs you, but you don't have to worry about an unreliable car. Plus people like new things. Everything in life is a comprimise. .

    If I was doing huge milage, there's no way I'd be trying to run some tired old CX for example. You'd get a modern car you can throw away every few years.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    a modern car you can throw away every few years.
    Ever contemplated leaving me the keys to your CX Turbo for a few days? It would only take a few days max, I'm sure...

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hayden,

    First attempt to post photo. Hope it works.

    If so it is a piccy of the Memsahib in her ute -

    Regards,

    Fento

  21. #21
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    Nup,

    obviously not -

    No piccy, no hope,

    Sorry, Fento

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Renomad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno View Post
    I'm assuming that based on 3 x cam changes the car has done around 300K?

    If that is the case then the only really odd things on that list are the "Alternator/regulator rebuilds x3" and the "Fuel pumps x3"

    The altenator on my Fuego failed the day I bought it (at 100K) but as the diodes were fried, I think it was killed by the dealer charging the battery with the leads connected or similar as I never had any other problems in 200K.

    The "head reconditioned x1" is perhaps a little odd too (unless it was cooked)

    The reast is stuff which does wear out and apart from the engine mounts which are a weak point, the rest is pretty normal for a well maintained 27 year old car.

    Obviously the interior trim and respray aren't service items, but hey, if you want a yellow Fuego
    The car had done about 240,000kms, I changed the Timing belt once because it was due, and twice because the waterpump needed changing and seeing as I had the whole front of the car in a million pieces, I may aswell do the pump while I'm here.
    OH! Waterpump is not on the list! I think that adds about $250, to the total.

    The fuel pumps were still operational, but leaked oil. It's funny as the years went by I didn't seem to notice the oil on the floor as much.

    The alternator problems are a story in themselves. From day one (27,000km) it had problems and the used car dealer (located at Birkenhead Point) kept taking it to some backyard auto electrian (located at Fivedock) who kept doing a bodgey job on it. Once I had to drive it to this dude myself, wait 4 hours while he fixed it, then on the way home (located near Penrith) the charge light came on again!
    A drive from Penrith to Birkenhead Point is a 100km round trip in city traffic and I had to do this 3 times to get it fixed, all the time hoping the battery will have enough juice to get me there!
    So the dealer and myself came to an arrangement, where I took the the car to an auto electrian in Parramatta (only about half the distance), that the Renault dealer took their cars to and the dealer paid for that first permanent fix!
    I took it to the Parramatta dude again, not long after, when the starter motor packed it in. He didn't charge me anything for it, as he felt sorry for me!
    None of this cost me any money, but it did waste alot of my time!
    But when it happened again, some months later, I took it to a local dude that a mate recommended and he fixed it for good, that is until I blew the diodes jump starting some dansels in distress.
    Then it was repaired again some years later simply because it had worn out.

    The head gasket needed changing as it was leaking oil down the back of the engine and as I had a $h!t load of money, because I was living at home and had nothing better to spend my money on, I got them to reco the head while it was off.

    The first paint job was done because when the rubber strip fell off the side of the car (which I didn't like the looks of anyway), it was a different shade of gold. My brother-in-law is quite handy with the spray gun, so we stripped it back ready for paint. That was when we discovered why it had low milage, it had spent half it's life in a panel shop. The front, rear and passenger side all had previous accident damage repairs. We resprayed the car Candy Apple Red, against the advice of the dude in the paint shop and sure enough a few years later, as the dude in the paint job predicted the paint faded badly.
    My Brother-in-law had since moved to Queensland, so I had to pay someone to respray it the next time!
    Yes, yellow rocks!
    Cheers Renomad

    "Today's mighty oak, is just yesterdays nut that held it's ground"

    Current frogs, Dad's R19 & Dad's Scenic.

    Past frogs, R12 Wagon X2, R12GL, Fuego X2, R10 X2, R8 X.5!


  23. #23
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    Well here's my story, and since Im only 19 and have a story I might have a problem!

    Anyway I paid 3,000 for a 93 mi16. since have spent about 2500 on it and haven't got it on the road yet! So thats 2,500 in about 2 monthes! When i bought the car i assumed it should be good since it just had an 8,000 dollar engine rebuild, which seems to be the problem! Its now round at a mechanic getting a new engine fitted!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cav91 View Post
    Well here's my story, and since Im only 19 and have a story I might have a problem!

    Anyway I paid 3,000 for a 93 mi16. since have spent about 2500 on it and haven't got it on the road yet! So thats 2,500 in about 2 monthes! When i bought the car i assumed it should be good since it just had an 8,000 dollar engine rebuild, which seems to be the problem! Its now round at a mechanic getting a new engine fitted!
    Have you decided at what point you'll cut your losses and leave the car at the mechanic and walk away from it all?

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ810 View Post
    Have you decided at what point you'll cut your losses and leave the car at the mechanic and walk away from it all?
    Well if this new engine, which I'm getting a new head gasket, rear main seal and all the timing belt stuff done, turns out to be another dud I will then cut my losses and probably strip it myself. It has some nice things on it like immaculate and soft series two leather!

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