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Thread: Name and shame

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Clearly you have never been involved in defamation or libel cases.
    Actually I have been involved with such allegations - a number of times in fact.

    As mentioned above, the rules have changed since you were exposed to them. I welcome the changes, as the previous rules were overly protective. That doesn't mean they're overly generous now, as they still need to be _true_ which is very important, plus have a number of other conditions. And generalising that xxx are a bunch of shonks who always rip people off because of one bad experience isn't a valid claim, hence you can't unreasonably malign a business. But if a mass of people are all having bad individual experiences people can - rightly - make their own impressions from that.

    I think many people would readily pass over a single bad incident (even if due to two mistakes as in this case) without so much concern. But it's very important that it be able to be reported as it both enables the business themselves to learn about the failiings (which can otherwise be readily passed over - not go up the chain), and also enables others to report their issues if there is indeed some greater issue.

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  2. #52
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odysseus View Post
    .....I think many people would readily pass over a single bad incident (even if due to two mistakes as in this case) without so much concern. But it's very important that it be able to be reported as it both enables the business themselves to learn about the failiings (which can otherwise be readily passed over - not go up the chain), and also enables others to report their issues if there is indeed some greater issue.
    We are in furious agreement. That why I'm surprised and somewhat dismayed that a complaint such as this makes it into print immediately.

    IMO it would have been better to take it up with management and only "go to press" if a a satisfactory resolution was not reached.

    Yes, I've been brought up to speed on current laws, thanks.
    Last edited by robmac; 8th November 2010 at 09:29 AM. Reason: spelling

  3. #53
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    I think it is important to differentiate between what constitutes a 'mistake' and one of lacking 'ethics'. One can be tolerant of mistakes. I believe the OP had a grudge because he was lied to. Being lied to is not a 'mistake'. It is a deliberate action.

    If this were indeed the case, I, in my opinion, feel that it is entirely appropriate to 'name 'n' shame'. Such circumstances businesses should learn through pain that their unethical behaviour is unacceptable.

  4. #54
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    Why should Jo not post anything in this forum to protect the business that shafted him? Pat's right, he was lied to.. it wasn't just an honest mistake! The business isn't going down the drain because of Jo's post, but it will be a nice little wake up call if the owner googles his business and finds this negative experience...

    Monsieur 405

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    Quote Originally Posted by Australdi View Post
    I believe the accepted way to calculate this is: add up total membership - 1 (the poster)

    You should moderate yourself.

  6. #56
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 96306N3 View Post
    You should moderate yourself.
    apologies...I forgot to add the wink emoticon to stress the emoticon signified tongue firmly planted in cheek
    Aus
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    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



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  7. #57
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    I usually view name and shame posts on any forum with a degree of cynicism. My view that these posts say more about the poster themselves than the company.

    If you contact any Ombudsman or Fair Trading body with a complaint, the first thing they will ask “Have you contacted the company and what was their response?” and will pretty much close the matter until such time as this is done.

    Any investigation beyond this will be based on the application of rules of natural justice.

    From my perspective, a post without this simple action is purely an unsubstantiated whinge.

    An email or even a phone call to the company’s management would have elicited a response. This would have had the effect of bringing the shortcomings to the company’s attention and they could have addressed it in any way they thought fit. (I’ve received a number of discounts when I have addressed complaints through this method)

    If the response was “Take a very long walk off a very short pier”, I may consider that any further interaction with the company may be worthy of a post. At least doing it this way, if the excrement does hit the fan; any legal action will have documentation to either support or defend.

    Possibly, I operate under a different mindset; but this to me is a reasonable way to deal with problems with retailers or service providers rather than go for the jugular in the first instance.

    Garth

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazsdad View Post
    I usually view name and shame posts on any forum with a degree of cynicism. My view that these posts say more about the poster themselves than the company.

    If you contact any Ombudsman or Fair Trading body with a complaint, the first thing they will ask “Have you contacted the company and what was their response?” and will pretty much close the matter until such time as this is done.

    Any investigation beyond this will be based on the application of rules of natural justice.

    From my perspective, a post without this simple action is purely an unsubstantiated whinge.

    An email or even a phone call to the company’s management would have elicited a response. This would have had the effect of bringing the shortcomings to the company’s attention and they could have addressed it in any way they thought fit. (I’ve received a number of discounts when I have addressed complaints through this method)

    If the response was “Take a very long walk off a very short pier”, I may consider that any further interaction with the company may be worthy of a post. At least doing it this way, if the excrement does hit the fan; any legal action will have documentation to either support or defend.

    Possibly, I operate under a different mindset; but this to me is a reasonable way to deal with problems with retailers or service providers rather than go for the jugular in the first instance.

    Garth

    yeahhh...thats fine...but why wait till you are told to F#### off to make a statement...jo s method seems more direct and honest....He wasnt chasing a discount or compensation....he wanted a product that was promised and wasnt delivered...to me its downright deception (laziness is a lazy excuse)...
    I work in retail and get calls like this ALL THE TIME.... I ALWAYS check stock and if necessary put it away with a name attached...there is usually a condition ie. must be picked up by end of day or some such...
    I really dont see anything wrong with what Jo and other supporting posters have said...
    IMO the only correct thing the mentioned company should do is apologize profusely and offer a compensatory deal should jo ever wish to trade with them...just common business sense and courtesy...
    Also...I think its unwise to even remotely suggest that Jos post is: "purely an unsubstantiated whinge"...
    this is an unfair statement considering Jos standing in the AF community...
    I look at it as a "heads up"....this is a good thing.
    I d add a caveat to this though...I d only pay serious consideration to similar posts if posters are established long term members...no way in hell would I trust a "tourist" with 1 or 2 posts to be telling the truth if they posted similar complaint...but thats just me.




    dino

  9. #59
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazsdad View Post
    .....An email or even a phone call to the company’s management would have elicited a response. This would have had the effect of bringing the shortcomings to the company’s attention and they could have addressed it in any way they thought fit. (I’ve received a number of discounts when I have addressed complaints through this method) [/FONT][/COLOR]

    They had me standing there for 20 minutes in which time they had every chance to resolve any issues but failed to do so.

    There is now no issue to resolve. At close of trade sat, there was nothing further that could have been done.

    They failed to provide the goods on time (and importantly for a pathetic or "hopeles" reason), and thats it, thats their one go at making me a customer smashed.

    I'm not interested in second prize now.
    I'll pay my money to someone else who wants to make theirs the easy way.

    Jo

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ810 View Post
    I think it is important to differentiate between what constitutes a 'mistake' and one of lacking 'ethics'. One can be tolerant of mistakes. I believe the OP had a grudge because he was lied to. Being lied to is not a 'mistake'. It is a deliberate action.

    If this were indeed the case, I, in my opinion, feel that it is entirely appropriate to 'name 'n' shame'. Such circumstances businesses should learn through pain that their unethical behaviour is unacceptable.
    Talking about libel...

    Patrick (and others), you are going down that path now by taking an incident (that you are third party too) and then extrapolating it further and hence committing libel by calling the tyre shop liars.

    I would say calling a business or a representative of that business a liar or unethical is portraying them in a negative image.

    Can you personally prove that to be the case?

    The original poster (Jo) was erroneously given wrong information by the tyre shop (we have that tyre in stock).

    Should the worker have manually checked the stock when asked to double check? Yes.

    Did he? Probably not, he just checked the computer.

    Was it unethical? No.

    A Lie would've been if he had put down the phone, gone to the shelf, found that the tyres weren't there and then came back to the phone and told Jo, Yip, "I just walked out to the store room and checked the shelf and they are in stock".

    That may very well have been the exact conversation, but it was not a conversation with you or to which you were present and hence you can not prove it to be the truth.

    Hence - Defamation - you have given a negative image to a company (by calling them unethical and liars) and you can not prove it to be the truth because you are not even the customer which is why threads like this always end the same way. People jump on the bandwagon and forget the law or just plain common sense..

    Don't even bother rambling on about "I never mentioned their name" or any such garbage because the entire thread is about the same company and hence any defamation is implied.

    This thread is now to be locked.

    Think about things before you post guys...

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