Froggy stuff in current mags
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  1. #1
    nJm
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    Froggy stuff in current mags

    Was browsing in a newsagents and noticed that the latest issue (jan03) of CAR has a comparo between in the Nissan Micra 1.2, C3 1.4 and 206 1.4. The Nissan won, shortly followed by the Peugeot, and the Citroen coming last. The mentioned that "The C3 doesn't like corners, and the corners don't like the C3". Apparently its suspension and dampers are too soft, which leads to strong understeer and a bumpy, crashing ride on british roads. They also said, like the Nissan, the C3 lacked feel in the steering. They praised the 206 for having the best feel in the steering, comfortable ride yet maintains its zing and loves corners. Main reason it didn't win is it is feeling old I think (only flipped through the review).

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    Keep in mind I have never driven any of these cars, so I'd love to know what other people think of the 206 vs C3 (I think there was another post on this a few days ago). I don't think we get that funny looking Nissan.

    Other magazine that caught my eye is called "GEARE" or something like that. It looks like a 'men's interest' mag as it had a rather attractive female on the front cover wink , but it is more focused on gadgets and so forth. They had a reasonable sized write up on the new found interest in French cars in Australia, and they outlined the basic history of Citroen etc, mentioning all the things the french have pioneered. One thing that looked interesting was a picture of a 607 limo which had a folding hard top roof over the rear passenger section of the cabin...
    Nick
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    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I have noticed those also and there seems to be a bit about french cars now in the mags....

  3. #3
    UFO
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    Methinks Daniel is impressed with his C3!

    "Nothing moves you like a citroen C3"...

    Next thing he'll be denying knowledge of ever owning a Renault dance whip
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    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Next thing he'll be denying knowledge of ever owning a Renault dance whip [/QB][/QUOTE]

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    ..but I will say Daniel made a good choice. cheers!
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  6. #6
    nJm
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    Same. I intend to go test drive a C3 myself at some stage. I think they look like a great car (or a 'cracking' car as one of my favourite british motoring journalist would say).
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    hmmm....interesting how the brits think a 206 is old...(a bit like some of my customers when i ask them how old is the car..."oh its pretty old"..."so what year are we talking about"..."ohhh its a 98" ....:what a pile of crap...old is 69...lets say...the 206 was ahead of the game and now they call it old...comparing the c3 with the micra...whats the deal there??same price braket?....some journos or editors havent gotta a clue....i d pick the c3 over a micra sight unseen....(i mean who d name a car "micra" anyway)...maybe it stands for what it ll be worth in two years time...citroen was making cars when nissan was still in diapers...maybe now that there is a renault connection they might finnaly learn something....

  8. #8
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    We're talking about the UK here - a Micra is a very fair comparison.

    It's also the only small car that is as distinctive as the C3.

    The 206 is old. When you compare current cars, it's amongst the oldest in the class. About the only thing as old is the Clio, and the Clio has had a reasonably significant update, unlike the 206.

    Think about it, all these cars off the top of my head are newer than the 206

    * C3
    * Polo
    * Fabia
    * Fiesta
    * Micra
    * Corsa
    * Ibiza
    * Mazda 2
    * Jazz
    * Echo
    * Accent
    * Getz

    The 206 is old, but it sells well.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
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  9. #9
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    and don't knock the Micra, I've had two and they are FANTASTIC cars. I still half wish that I never got rid of my 1.3 CVT in the first place.

    I wish we were getting the new one, but with the whole Nissan-Renault arrangement, they won't compete against each other in our small market. And, before you start bagging the Nissan, you'd want to keep in mind that it uses the platform that will make the new Clio.

    Pug307 is correct, the 206 and C3 are in the same class as Micra. I've got some old reviews where the 206 is compared against the previous Micra.

    I'll be picking up that CAR, so when I do I'll scan it and post it on htis thread for all of you to read.
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  10. #10
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    The previous Micra won European Car of the Year in 1993, so it can't be that bad if a Japanese car is winning a European award!!!

    It did well in reviews as well when it was new. I'd assume the new one is better.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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  11. #11
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    then on the other hand i still get people not believing that the GTi is a 98 model
    they keep thinking that it's a lot newer than that
    even a bloke at the local servo asked me a few weeks ago "when did you get the new car ?"
    so i'd say that the 306 is still in keeping with 02 styling
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  12. #12
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    pugrambo:

    even a bloke at the local servo asked me a few weeks ago "when did you get the new car ?"
    so i'd say that the 306 is still in keeping with 02 styling
    Sounds like the time on the way to Canberra in my R4, I pulled into a servo in some small town and the filler upper thought the car was a prototype of some new model.
    1963 Renault R4 Van
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  13. #13
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    My god Simon that is very funny. I laughed when I read about your R4 and the servo. Very nice man..

    Bogmaster i cant believe you are actually giving me credit. (Only joking man......) wink wink

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    So Daniel, what is the story behind the new Citroen logo? Are you trading in the R19?
    '05 Pearl Black Mťgane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  15. #15
    SMP addict pugjet's Avatar
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    hi daniel,

    congrats on yer new sitrohen! sounds as if youre ova the moon with this new pretty in yer life. whats gonna happen to yer ole renault? do you have any plans for the c3?

    ma insignificant other seems to be transfixed by the new c3, too. looks as if her sunflower yellow 121 has passed her used by date evil . just wish she could drive manual cuz a "good as new" gti6 would surely be on the cards head_ban

    sowie to digress from the original topic
    current frogs :
    '94 s3 alpine 205GTi

    daily ding magnet: '98 1.8 16v citroen xsara


    previous frogs:

    88 S1 205GTi
    '95 306S16


    gimme corners. . .


  16. #16
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    It's a very nice C3, I had a good perve at at lunch today. It now has a Froggy sticker too
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ok...here we go again....
    first pug 206 is not old,,,,not buy australian standards anyway....we wait years to get the bloody cars and when we get them they are "OLD"...i m sorry i just disagree with that...the car was reasonably well designed and has stood its current series well...and i think (in ten or twenty years)you ll see which one will stand the test of time (the micra will not)Secondly the brits are particularly "fussy" and i ve seen them time and time again criticise a model once its 2-3 years old...however ...three days after the car was initially realised they thought it was wonderful...best thing since sliced bread....and since you are such a hot shot with the list of your cars...then why do a test comparison with micra in mind especially...could it be because of the french connection...since of the top of my mind there is at least another ten vehicles they could have compared the c3/micra against...obviously the focus would be on the c3 and the micra since the pug is "to old"...oh...my my..is the FOCUS/ka to old as well...and no we would not want to think 106 category since that would be the more reasonable car to compare with the micra (in terms of class category)...we are talking smallest cars in range...arent we???and where is
    your logic with the ACCENT...thats not a car...might be in your opinion...accent is a joke the asians play on the rest of the planet....(some asian exec. told the designers to design the worst looking car they can and he BET a lot of money that it will still sell providing the price is right...HE WON THE BET)
    re ..micra... i was just stirring the pot there...it really wasn t a bad car...( yes i ve driven one) and in regards to the new micra...well i dont know...it could be a real cracker...i based my objection on my experiance of the earlier model and i dont know how well they have evolved the car considering it was being designed while the little PUG was on the road...

    anyway enough of my ranting...all i can say is the brits...who have lost most of their motor manufacturing ownership to other nations...have became the critics of the motoring world...hell ...
    why not ..if you can t play the game become an umpire...
    by the way anyone remeber the old 205 gti/suzukigti/honda crx comparison...see to me that makes sense...then they did one between 205 gti/mx6/honda integra....they explained why but it still never made sense to me...(i m talking wheels mag here ,...i think...)

    ps..the brits should look at fixing their roads perhaps....
    psss...comparisons (normally) require (in my mind anyway) a vehicle to be used as a STANDARD for the particular class...which car was the standard??? your comment "micra is a very fair comparison" doesn t make sense if YOU believe the pug is OLD....(and whatever happened with your comment about technology for technologys sake)since they might be using the pug as the standard why be critical of it if it still available as "NEW".... just doesn t sound FAIR....lets knock the breath ot of this hot seller....most journos are cowards...

    thats it ... finished....i can crap on only for so long....

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    So Daniel passes on the S**B and the Niki and goes for the Citroen....
    '05 Pearl Black Mťgane 5-Door LXR(Daily Driver), '75 Trak Yellow R16TSA (Parts Car), '74 Midnight Blue R17TS (Rebuilding), '73 457 Blue R17TL (Parts Car), '72 Alpine White R16TL (Retired), '69 Sunburst Brown R16TS (Awaiting Rebuild), '68 "Appliance White" Europa (Stored)

  19. #19
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Go the Rant!

    I can't remember which UK mag it was, but they always used the top ranking car of their last comparo in the next one. I'd say before C3 and Micra came on to the market, the 206 would be the class leader, it's certainly held in higher esteem to Clio/old Fiesta/Corsa/Polo/Fabia/Ibiza and the UK proess hate anything Asian, so the 206 would be their top rung small car.

    The Micra does well as it isn't considered Asian in the UK, as it's designed and built in Sunderland. It's the only Asian car (and Primera that is also built in Sunderland) that I know of that the UK press actually like.

    I'm interested in the Fiesta/C3/Micra/206 comparo, as the UK press often favour anything Ford.

    Made me laugh about the UK press though, they are really trying hard to be the umpires/whingers of the world.
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  20. #20
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Europa:
    So Daniel passes on the S**B and the Niki and goes for the Citroen....
    is this necessary?
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  21. #21
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    A rant only deserves a rant as a response.

    1. If a car is older in design compared to its competitors, amongst the oldest in the class - then, YES, relative to its class members, it is OLD. A definition of 'old' is ultimately subjective - but compared to the competitors in terms of when it was designed, it is certainly not NEW.

    1a. Did I criticise the technology of the 206 - all I am doing is stating a fact - the 206 is of an older design than most of its competitors - there is only one car that is older springing to mind. No where was technology mentioned.

    2. Why do a test against the Micra? The 206 is a strong seller in the class.

    3. Can I have an example of a car the UK press loved for the first 3 days, and then decided was crap?

    4. We wait bloody years to get cars. Not so true anymore. 307 was launched in Europe in 2001, we got it in 2001.

    5. Focus is not a C3 competitor. The Ford Fiesta is. Compare a Focus with a 307.

    6. Find me a review or a publication that says the 206 is a class leader.

    7. 106 vs Micra is more logical a comparison than 206 vs Micra because 106 & Micra are the smallest in their ranges? Does that imply that any maker that has no two tier supermini range must compete with the 106? Not much competes with the 106 these days - unless you want a Daewoo Matiz. As cars have grown in size (eg. a Polo is now the size of a Mk2 Golf), the smallest cars are starting to become redundant.

    8. Accent - who cares whether you like it or not. It's in the same price range, and is a car against which superminis can be compared.

    9. Why use the 206 as a standard if its not the best? - because it sells well, because it's easy on the eye and cheap. See point 6.

    10. It makes sense to compare a 206 against a Micra. Why? For the same reason it makes sense to compare a Golf against a 307, sure a Golf is now a 5 year old design, and the 307 is only one year old - but they are in the same class, in the price range, and are cars that buyers often compare. It's got nothing to do with age - let's be frank here, at some time, a car is going to be older than its competitors, then when it is replaced, it suddenly becomes the newbie on the block.

    Let's look at how the various UK mags rate the 206 range.

    What Car? 2-3/5 - "Well eqipped supermini. Looks good and rides and handles well. But it's no class leader. Driving position is awful"

    Car - 3.5/5 - "Hard to see the attraction at the bottom of the range with weedy 1.1 engine and stripped, cheap feeling cabins. Gets far better as you move up, especially with torquey and relaxing 1.4 engine option."

    The tone of the rant indicates that I've somehow lambasted the 206 in the previous posts in this thread. All I've said is relative to its competitors, it is an older design. No where did I make a judgement on its performance.

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  22. #22
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    GTI124,

    I'd actually say the Skoda Fabia was probably the supermini class leader before the C3, etc. Maybe the Fiesta could be up there.

    Don't think the C3 has been labelled a class leader.

    From Top Gear - 206

    "Itís been around for a while now, but Peugeotís 206 is still stunningly pretty and certainly more stylish than the Skoda Fabia. Yet when you get inside and close the door, the 206 doesnít have the solid feel of the Czech car. Itís reasonably roomy, but thereís not enough space around the pedals. It is well equipped, though, with aircon, CD player and leather all as standard. Plus, when it comes to soaking up the potholes and putting a smile on your face, the 206 is right up there with the Fiesta, although a tad slower.

    Overall, itís good, but still not the best."
    That excerpt seems to be the consensus of most of the UK press.

    Anyone who starts knocking the Skoda because of it's name - wake up, you're in the 21st century now!

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  23. #23
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Sorry didn't mean to sound like I was saying the C3 was a class leader. Was more that, at the time of launch the 206 was held in high regard, and it would make sense to compare it to the two new small cars (C3 and Micra) on the market. Fiesta should be there too, but hasn't it JUST been launched? I haven't seen a review of it yet, I'd expect it to be a well sorted handling car.

    As for Fabia, I don't have a problem with Skoda at all. It's a damn good value VW. Be a good car to have out here, but if they couldn't sell SEAT, I reckon it'd be tough selling the Skoda out here.

    <small>[ 22 January 2003, 07:41 PM: Message edited by: GTI124 ]</small>
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    i know the definition of OLD....

    but look at it from this perpective: what is the average life cycle of a europen model...i m only guessing here but it would seem to be anywhere between 5-10 years......(not counting updates)or are these days now gone; by defining a vehicle as being OLD(no matter what you mean by it the spelling and pronanciation is the same)(before its replacement or update) we only further shorten its lifespan,,...we devalue it and the person whos just purchased it only 3 years ago...
    here is the deal ...since your pug will be OLD in 3 years time...(but will possibly still be under 80kays)how about i come over ...kick its tyres and offer you 5 grand for it...i mean thats where it eventually all leads to depreciation and high and regular vehicle turn over....i m guessing somebody makes money out of that theory.... how many buyers who regulary change their cars after 2-3 years will start to think that the MICRA is obviously a better car....hmmm hell for all i know it might be but since (like i said) the 206 is still avilable new i do not believe the comparison makes sense...
    u mention comparing the 206 against the MICRA....(it should be the micra aginst the 206 after all micra is the new cat on the block)i m not sure wether i m being stupid here but i dont believe the 206 needs to be compared to anything...its been on the market for a few years...the journos know all about it...its been tested and retested...been reviewed,driven and then sold in thousands....i mean ..u yourself listed all the cars...and what do they do, go for the pug (older)but a good seller(perhaps they neded to test it again just in case) ..now if it beats the pug...we have done well...
    regarding technology...well, why buy the newer car then....???technology, style etc atc all makes for good advertising and sales...pug has proven itself....but buy putting it SECOND (not that i really care)or third or forth etc etc it undermines its succes by comparing it to a fresh vehicle....a bit like saying your pug is crap when the new GOLF comes around...they are not fair comparisons...its a CATCH UP GAME nothing else....
    why arent WE getting the fiesta (beside it being a pile of crap)..because we r getting the FOCUS...ford seems to think its a fair replacement model for the class....

    blah blah blah...blah bla....
    at the end of the day what i objected to was the COMPARISON...not the micra or the c3....apples should be compared to apples,...yes they are all small cars but u tell me what do u choose: the golf or the polo the accent or the gets, the civic or the jazz and thats within company models with slight size and price differnce...(which ones are new which ones are old)but here they do three different makes (to small a sample considering the market)and out of the three one of them is a few years old....

    ps. i havent read the above mentioned article so i could be talking through the proverbial... ...but knowing the mag its more than likely nothing but a PAID FOR EDITORIAL...

    car magazines (for me anyway ) are nothing but light entertainment with "bare essentials" informative value...ie. something to talk about...
    however when somebody in AUSSIE reads a mag designed for euro market it isnt long before peole start saying that their 10 year old micra (in all the confusion of their small minds)is better than the new 206GTI (gti just to add to the insult since most people on the street can not tell the difference)
    i think most of us guys/gals are above that...but ask yourself...what did more damege to french cars in the aussie market (earlier days) the CARS or the COMMENTARY about them....and how bad they are ...this and that...by people who are absolutely clueless about their cars....
    and as far for car journos..remeber the aussie VN commodore was voted car of the year ...shit ...i think even the germans voted the KIA 4x4 as car of year a while ago ...since then i ve...pretty much lost ALL respect for them.,...you want to buy a car ...:go and test drive the bloody THING yourself;...u ll be driving the pile of shit....not me...that would be my advice for any given car....

    there i ve done it again....blah blah blah....
    this isn t reply ..its a blody essay....

    PS...shouldn t somebody be CHARGING me for this...it feels very therapeautic....

    BY the way, PUG 307...u obviously do know what u r talking about....and u r right most of the time(i mean, i sometimes disagree) ...freaks me out how pedantic/accurate u can be....(re figures /models/etc)

    i enjoy my rants

    cheers...

  25. #25
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    Dino, have you driven the Fiesta?

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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