Renault No.1 Selling Brand In Europ
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! RXE 2.0's Avatar
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    Renault No.1 Selling Brand In Europ

    Renault motors sold an impressive 2,403,975 vehicles worldwide in 2002.And through Renaultís bi-national alliance with Nissan, a staggering total of 5,139,505 million vehicles were sold around the world in the same year. Together, the Renault/Nissan alliance is one of the world's top five automobile manufacturers.
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    <a href="http://www.renault.com.au/renault/world/" target="_blank">http://www.renault.com.au/renault/world/</a>

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  2. #2
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Hopefully things will head on the way up for Renault in Australia, with the launch of the Megane II.

    It'll be interesting to see how the Australian market responds to the Megane II. I don't mind its looks, much better than the Vel Satis, IMHO. Plus I suspect its customers are less conservative than the AU Falcon buying segment.

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  3. #3
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    Justin ,your previous claims that the 206 was the best selling car in Europe are false according to Autocar. They claim the Megane overtook the Golf which has held the title for many years.

    Maybe what you saw was referring to the 206's class of car?

    I can't wait for the Megane to come out here! I'm glad its been a success in Europe, Renault keep going from strength to strength (although not in Australia unfortunately).
    Tim

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  4. #4
    nJm
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    Yes, Renault is doing great work at the moment. I think until the 207 and 407 come out, Peugeot is definately starting to look a little behind the times. One could even say when looking at the 307 vs Megane II that the 307 is ready for a spruce up.

    How is Citroen doing now that PSA have positioned it as an economy car brand? I parked next to a C5 today and must say it looked incredibly boring (and it was parked next to an Avalon!).
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  5. #5
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Sergetov:
    Justin ,your previous claims that the 206 was the best selling car in Europe are false according to Autocar. They claim the Megane overtook the Golf which has held the title for many years.
    Lets have a look at the Golf vs 206 issue, using what I think are fairly credible figures.

    <a href="http://www.psa-peugeot-citroen.com/document/faitchiffre/Worldwidesalesbymodel06031062604077.xls" target="_blank">Peugeot 206 Worldwide Sales</a>

    2001 828,700 units
    2002 832,000 units

    <a href="http://volkswagen-ir.irlcomm.de/english/content04/pics_2002/s_76a.gif" target="_blank">VW Golf Production</a>

    2001 854,533
    2002 774,718

    Please note that Golf figures are for production, 206 figures are for sales.

    What we can see here is that the 206 clearly outsold the Golf in 2002, and 25,833 more Golfs were producted than 206s sold in 2001. Now first consider what this means, it's not necessarily victory for the Golf.

    1. There may well have been overproduction of the Golf - lets be honest, there was hardly a waiting list on Mk IV Golfs back in 01. In fact there is nothing to suggest that more Golfs would have been sold than produced in 2001.

    2. The Golf is sold in more markets than the 206, most importantly it is sold in North America unlike the 206. This is a huuuuuuuuuge market! Therefore, it may well be that, at least, the 206 actually out sold the Golf within Europe. Again, referring to point 1, it may even well be that the 206 outsold the Golf anyway worldwide (given the difference between the two is roughly 3%).

    For these reasons, I believe the 206 indeed was Europe's most popular car (in terms of sales) over the past two years, NOT the Golf. I can't see current Megane or Golf sales results, so I can't comment there.

    Peugeot agrees anyway
    <a href="http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_/showall_/id_PEU/doc_peu0308191/cms/news/newsarticle.html" target="_blank">"The Peugeot 206 - Europe's best selling car for the past two years"</a>
    <a href="http://www.carpages.co.uk/peugeot/peugeot_europes_best_selling_car_gets_better_26_04 _03.asp?v=1" target="_blank">"The Peugeot 206 Ė Britainís most popular retail car and Europeís best selling car for the past two years"</a>

    Yes, the 206 has been the UK's most popular car bought privately (ie. not by fleets).

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  6. #6
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    For more discussion regarding PSA sales worldwide, refer to <a href="http://www.aussiefrogs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001955" target="_blank">this thread</a>.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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  7. #7
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    Were talking best selling in Europe, not the world.
    Tim

    2013 BMW 320i Touring M-Sport xDrive (Estoril Blue)

  8. #8
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Sergetov:
    Were talking best selling in Europe, not the world.
    That only supports my view further

    Peugeot's 206 sales are more concentrated in Europe than VW's Golf. Peugeot does NOT compete in the world's largest car market. VW does. Therefore VW has a huge advantage in worldwide sales that Peugeot does not have. Therefore holding all things equal, the Golf should sell more than the 206 at a worldwide level. It didn't (02). VW's own figures confirm that. Therefore more 206s were sold in Europe than Golfs.

    How on earth could more Golfs be sold in Europe than 206s, if fewer Golfs were sold than 206s in 2002, and 206s weren't sold in the huge US market? It just makes no sense if you take a reasonable view of it. I doubt Peugeot sold a huge amount of 206s to some weird and wacky country - their greater sales probably reflects greater sales in Europe. It is therefore unsurprising that Peugeot claims the 206 as being Europe's most popular car (note. not the most popular European car - stating Europe's most popular car implies that the car is the car with the highest sales in Europe).

    Do you really think that in 2002, despite Peugeot selling 57,282 MORE 206s than Golfs and NOT competing in the largest car market in the world that VW some how managed to sell more Golfs in Europe than Peugeot did with 206s?

    If you look at 2001 sales, whilst Peugeot is slightly down on VW's worldwide sales, given that Peugeot doesn't sell in the US (the only key market that it doesn't compete in - otherwise both manufacturers compete in similar markets) I'd even argue Peugeot sold more 206s in Europe than VW did with Golfs in 2001. VW would have certainly moved more than 26,000 Golfs in the US back in 01 (an opportunity which Peugeot did not have with the 206). The assumption here is that we hold sales patterns constant in other markets, which seems reasonable to me (I doubt there are any markets of size anywhere near the US market in which Peugeot sells better than VW).

    Have a look into the matter more closely - do some further research into this matter. You don't see VW claiming the Golf was Europe's top selling car (either of European origin, or in terms of unit sales within Europe). When you look at the numbers - what Peugeot says, make sense.

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  9. #9
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    The US sales of the Golf are disappointing - the New Beetle sells more units than the Golf. The US has a taste for true fuglyness, so the Bora (Jetta) sells 4-1 to the Golf, and is VW's biggest seller in the US market.

    The following cars all use the same platform:

    VW Golf
    VW Golf Cabriolet (now defunct)
    VW New Beetle
    VW New Beetle Cabriolet
    VW Bora / Jetta
    VW Sharan
    Audi A3 / S3
    Audi TT
    Seat Cupra / Leon
    Skoda Octavia
    ... others

    The A4 platform is definitely the most produced in the world today. This means my New Beetle (for today or tomorrow only ... a new C3 is due very soon) can and does share bits with all the others. Sometimes that's good (ie go fast TT bits), but most of the time, it's bad (faulty window regulators, coil packs, exploding ABS units, etc).

    Does the 206 or Megane share platforms with anything else? I ask as I know PSA share stuff like engines, but I'm new to this entire froggy thing.

    The Bora is one of VW's smallest produced cars. If it wasn't for the US's desire for wasted space (in the form of a boot) and lack of utility (no hatch and no fold down seats (whoopdeedoo a ski port), the Bora probably would not be produced today.

    Here's the breakdown of US VW sales:

    Sales by model (January 2002):

    - Jetta: 8,452
    - Passat: 6,076
    - New Beetle: 3,691
    - Golf: 2,210
    - Cabrio: 584
    - EuroVan: 349

    (Source VWoA via the vortex).

    The Golf IV is about to be replaced with the much better looking Golf V. It's no wonder than Golf sales are declining - everyone knows about it, and are holding off until the Golf V gets in town (around now).

    <img src="http://vwvortex.rely.net/artman/uploads/015__scaled_600.jpg" alt=" - " />

    Andrew

    <small>[ 13 October 2003, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: vanderaj ]</small>
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  10. #10
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    After doing my research I must apologise Justin. Autocar was wrong indeed. The pug 206 stole the crown in 2001, according to Deutsche Bank analyst reports.

    Indeed, Volkswagen sales have dropped 7.5% since the Golf lost its mantle. In the first six months of 2003, Golf sales have dropped 18% from the previous years period.

    However, just becuase VW sells cars in the US does NOT mean it sells many. They sell very few, as outlined above by vanderaj.
    Tim

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  11. #11
    nJm
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    I believe the 206 shares the same platform as the Citroen C2 and C3. The Renault Megane has nothing in common with Peugeot/Citroen. It is possible it might have some Nissan stuff in it somewhere, but it is more likely to be the other way - a new Nissan will share bits with the Megane II.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #12
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    That's okay Tim I normally won't stick with something unless I'm pretty confident on the footing I'm standing on.

    Thanks for the VW info Andrew - the Vortex is a great source of info. Nice sister site to Swedespeed

    With regards to platforms. I believe the C2 & C3 don't share the 206 platform.

    For a start, the 206 uses the venerable Peugeot torsion bars and trailing arms setup.

    The C3 uses the new accountant inspired torsion beam and coil springs setup. I believe this is the future for PSA's small cars, the 307 whose platform will be shared by the C4 also uses such a setup.

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  13. #13
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    Sergetov:
    However, just becuase VW sells cars in the US does NOT mean it sells many. They sell very few, as outlined above by vanderaj.
    Bear in mind, those are monthly results. So they are still reasonably large numbers.

    Using those results, VW sold 21,362 cars in January 2002. Now January is typically one of worst months for new car sales, so it's not accurate to extrapolate annual sales from such a figure.

    By the end of June, VW had sold 170,019 cars - double that you get 340,038 cars. Whilst this isn't a perfect measure, given you have more months in the data sample, you should get less bias.

    If you ask me, that's a lot of cars!

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  14. #14
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    congratulations has to go to Renault indeed. Cant wait to see the new megane at the motorshow.
    I saw they have also updated the aussie website too it looks great...
    <a href="http://www.renault.com.au" target="_blank">www.renault.com.au</a>

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    It's amazing peugeot sell so many 206s with their "unique" driving position, small tightly laid out pedals, poor autos and questionable build quality (compared to rivals)...

    While they are a good car, I'm surprised their appeal is so wide......

    Oh, and it's nice renault get some sales too, hopefully renault will regain some lost momentum in Aus soon

  16. #16
    XTC
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    DTwo:
    It's amazing peugeot sell so many 206s with their "unique" driving position, small tightly laid out pedals, poor autos and questionable build quality (compared to rivals)... While they are a good car, I'm surprised their appeal is so wide......
    We'd have to look at sales price, spec levels, rebates, services costs and warranties for all these cars in each European country before a comparison can be done. (not to mention fleet sales).

    I agree though ... 2 million 206's ago they should have put a reach adjustable steering wheel (and moved the manual gear leaver back and shortened the throw) .. must be alot of gorilla arm Europeans around.

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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  17. #17
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    I was with a Danish girl one night and she told me the 206 sold well because it was cheap and looked good. To be honest, I think she's right.

    She also said Peugeots were famous over there for having blown globes. The funny thing was one of my rear brake lights had just died

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    in nearly 6 years i have only ever replaced one parking light in one headlight
    all the other globes are original in the car
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