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  1. #1
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Make sense of this!!!

    Have a look at this Xantia going up for sale in Brisbane. Look at the mileage & tell me why is it a "Statutory write off"???

    We bought one that wasn't all that hard or expensive to put back on the road after a fire, yet it still can't be registered. If anyone thinks that being a Stat Write off makes them cheaper, guess again. <a href="http://www.fowles.com.au/auctions/lot.aspx?auction=DQ385&number=1419888" target="_blank"> Chooks Auctions.</a>

    <img src="http://www.fowles.com.au/photo.aspx?m=1419888&n=1&s=F" alt=" - " />

    <img src="http://www.fowles.com.au/photo.aspx?m=1419888&n=2&s=F" alt=" - " />

    Yet, here's a Daewoo with comparable mileage & a front end hit to boot that isn't...a bit inconsistent, as I personally know which one I reckon would be the easiest to repair.

    <img src="http://www.fowles.com.au/photo.aspx?m=1432187&n=1&s=F" alt=" - " />

    Alan S

    <small>[ 02 September 2003, 03:44 PM: Message edited by: Alan S ]</small>

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Mileage doesn't enter into it, as long as the vehicle is classified as a "total lost" (ie repair costs greater than original value) and it complies with various stipulated criteria.

    Here's the list of "requirements" for a vehicle to be classified as a stautory write off:

    A Statutory Write-Off is a vehicle that is assessed as a total loss and is:

    A motor vehicle (other than a motor bike) that has been immersed in saltwater for any period above the doorsill level, or immersed in freshwater up to the dashboard or steering wheel or more than 48 hours.

    A motor bike that has been fully immersed in saltwater for any period, or fully immersed in freshwater for more than 48 hours.

    A motor vehicle or trailer that is burnt to such an extent that it is fit only for wrecking or scrap.

    A motor vehicle or trailer that is stripped of all, or a combination of most, interior and exterior body parts, panels and components (for example, engine, wheels, bonnet, guards, doors, bootlid).

    A motor vehicle (other than a motor bike) that is damaged according to at least three of the following impact damage indicators:

    - damage to an area of the roof equal to or exceeding 300 x 300mm
    - damage to an area of the cabin floor pan equal to or exceeding 300 x 300mm
    - damage to an area of the firewall equal to or exceeding 300 x 300mm
    - damage to the suspension.
    - cracked or broken major mechanical components such as the engine block and* transmission casings.
    In this case it would have to be three of the last set of criteria, maybe suspension, floor pan and ???? Maybe the transmission?

    Cheers

    Rod
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  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    [Quote/]

    "damage to an area of the roof equal to or exceeding 300 x 300mm
    - damage to an area of the cabin floor pan equal to or exceeding 300 x 300mm
    - damage to an area of the firewall equal to or exceeding 300 x 300mm
    - damage to the suspension.
    - cracked or broken major mechanical components such as the engine block and transmission casings.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    In this case it would have to be three of the last set of criteria, maybe suspension, floor pan and ???? Maybe the transmission?

    Cheers

    Rod"

    I know mileage doesn't come into it, but the criteria quoted appears to be more applicable to the Daewoo than the Citroen. The throwaway had a heavy front ender and was not a stat W/O, so I doubt a front wheel drive car would have a damaged tranny after a tap up the date. cry

    The cost of repair against the value of the vehicle you refer to, you'll find applies to what is referred to as an "Economic write off" which CAN be re-registered. deal
    If it looked like the Daewoo I wouldn't question it, but short of it having floated down a creek, this one is really weird particularly when you just pick a few others at random & compare.
    I've seen some that have had the 'Jaws of life' used on them that weren't stat write offs but yet this one (which appears to be still driveable) has been. mallet

    Alan S
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Alan S:
    The cost of repair against the value of the vehicle you refer to, you'll find applies to what is referred to as an "Economic write off" which CAN be re-registered.
    Well, it can be re-registered AS LONG AS it doesn't meet the criteria for a statutory write off.

    Its an additive process.

    1) is it an economic write off - if not proceed no further
    2) if yes, is it also a statutory write off (according to the criteria I posted) If no, then it can be re-registered. If yes, then don't come looking for a rego label.

    I agree with you that its claim to "statutory write off" status looks pretty marginal. Suspension damage - yes. Floorpan damage? maybe. The third one, I was assuming must have involved something up the front (where it appeasr to have also suffered a knock)

    The Daewoo looks dearer to repair, I agree, but that doesn't really count in the "second stage" of the appraisal. Apart from the suspension damage it seems to have avoided the other criteria.

    That's the trouble with the criteria they set. It will on occasion create some fairly stupid anomalies.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Alan,

    I don't think that's right. Cars that are a 'Statory Writeoff' can be re-registered. There's a BX here in Ballarat the was hit fairly hard in the bum, pushing the rear right corner in and smashing the hatch. It was 'written off'. The owner got a new hatch and rear light from Martin Bray, hooked the back corner of the car to a tree and pulled the crumpled section back to the best of his abilities. He panel beated it a bit (without using any bog or paint I think).

    To re-register it he had to take it to the only place in Ballarat that could re-compliance write-offs. He was really p!$$ed off as it cost him several hundred $$$$ and all they did was looked for evidence of fixed damage (I don't think they bothered to) and check the cars ID tags and serial numbers. It would've taken them minutes as who'd bother 're-birthing' a BX

    Look into it, once repaired you should be able to re-register that BX as long as you pay the $$$$ to the people with the contract to checkout written off vehicles.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    No Shane. There are now two categories. If it reaches the "economic write-off" (ie an insurance write off) level then it has to be assessed before it can be re-registered.

    If, when assessed, it meets the damage criteria mentioned above then it CAN'T be re-registered in Australia. No exceptions. Your mates car simply didn't meet the "statutory write-off" criteri when assessed. Obviously the Qld one has already been assessed and failed . That's the death knell.

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 02 September 2003, 05:11 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Rod,

    there's gotta be a way of appealing the 'Statatory writeoff' surely?? Before fixing the damage, I'd be looking at appealing the decision and getting changed to 'un-econimc to repair'. If it's only an underbonnet fire with no structural damage done, a Statatory writeoff is a load of bullshit!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    I haven't seen it in the flesh, but methinks the roof of this car is probably buckled above the rr door. So it's probably suspension, floorpan and roof.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
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  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Bruce,

    If you do happen to see it, just out of curiosity I would like to know why.

    The red 16V we needed to be registered to be able to compete in some class or other according to Brad and most of the fire damage was cosmetic, just as the silver one had underbonnet flames but in the case of the red car it made it just to the dash; wasn't all that bad as I have the radio/CD player in my car now & apart from one small seat burn, the rest of the insides is immaculate.

    Shane,

    We contacted everybody to explain the situation & all agreed that whilst it might have been feasible it just wasn't legal and to cover themselves they advertise as such AND state it on the receipt.
    From Fowles ad

    "Description CITROEN XANTIA IMAGE 75TH HATCH, 2.0L EI PETROL, Automatic, RED, Km 9,380, Features CDEFGH2IU, Statutory Write-off, Unable to be Registered, VF7X1RFVM72178926 "

    Which means that if the assessor (working from quotes received) decrees that it is a "Statutory write off" then that's it - game set & match.
    When you think about it, short of a total burn out, a car with small wiring fire damage can be wrongfully written off because it can, in our case be feasibly repaired, yet an "Economic Write off" in reality possibly couldn't be. Even if the turret was bent, with Mayracks & some of the equipment they have today, I'm sure it could be realigned & reinforced; whatever happened to the honourable art of the "cut & shut" mallet cry dance

    Alan S whistle
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  10. #10
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the joys of our new found throw away society we live in
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    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    DoubleChevron:
    Hi Rod,

    there's gotta be a way of appealing the 'Statatory writeoff' surely?? Before fixing the damage, I'd be looking at appealing the decision and getting changed to 'un-econimc to repair'. If it's only an underbonnet fire with no structural damage done, a Statatory writeoff is a load of bullshit!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    There is some sort of right of appeal, Shane. I presume it would be through the Administrative Appeals Tribunal in Victoria. Wouldn't want to hold your breath about winning though!

    Another thing worth noting , especially for you wink , is that the law only applies to vehicles that are less than 15 years old.

    You can read more about it all <a href="http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/vrne/vrninte.nsf/AllDocs/9b43feadbe8d021aca256cc2007e2009" target="_blank">HERE</a>

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 02 September 2003, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rod Hagen
    <strong>.....the law only applies to vehicles that are less than 15 years old.....
    That's all right then...

    Alan can buy it and take his time doing the repairs.

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I'll tell you what; I wouldn't like your chances.

    I may be able to find out the name of the Insurance Coy on one of our cars buy I doubt the Auctions would disclose, bother to look for or would still have record of the Insurance company involved with the other. deal

    Here's Vicroads policy as per the website.
    As I say, don't hold your braeth. We went down almost every ally up here & Queensland Transport don't wanna know about it & from what I can see, either don't have a right of appeal or if they do they're keeping it a secret (less hassles that way). whistle I suppose at least they're a bit more honest than Vicroads as reading between the lines, I reckon you'd have Buckley's chance of getting it reversed. cry

    "VicRoads may require the applicant to provide evidence verifying their identity, how the applicant became entitled to possession of the vehicle or any other relevant matter, including obtaining details of the extent of damage as determined by the insurance company.

    If VicRoads refuses to remove or amend an entry, it must inform the applicant of their right of appeal.

    Road Safety (Vehicles) Regulations 1999 - Reg 234H - Removal or amendment of entries on the register of written-off vehicles.

    Yet, this one isn't either a Stat or Economic write off; how do they figure it?

    <img src="http://www.fowles.com.au/photo.aspx?m=1429483&n=1&s=F" alt=" - " />

    Alan S 2_cents

    <small>[ 03 September 2003, 10:23 AM: Message edited by: Alan S ]</small>
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    How do they figure it? My guess with that one would be that its not an economic write-off and, therefore, not a Statutory write off, even if it fulfills the other "Statutory write-off""conditions". What was it, by the way?

    One other little nasty lurking somewhere in the fine print, is that you can't use a part from a statutory write-off in another vehicle if the part carries the Vin number of the written off vehicle.

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 03 September 2003, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  15. #15
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    It's a Hyundies Sonata that appears to have had a harder hit than the Xantia.

    Valuewise prior to the accident I would imagine the Xantia would be of a higher value & partswise, being Korean, the bits would be every bit as expensive as a froggy if not more so.
    Where the Xantia only copped it on one side, this one wore it on the same side but the damage went right across.

    The VIN on the parts isn't all that hard to explain I suppose, as that would really only apply to the body & the number plate

    The reason I'm a bit curious is that I occasionally go to the auctions & the variences I see in what constitutes these various types of write offs can be quite large at times.
    The other stupid part is that even the stat write offs I have seen on more than one occasion, pull bigger prices than non written off ones which is even more mystifying.

    Alan S cheers!
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  16. #16
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Yes its true... 2_cents

  17. #17
    UFO
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    CitroŽn Tragic UFO's Avatar
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    I reckon all that can be said is that someone somewhere made sure the rules suited certain parties and there is a buck or fifty being made because of these rules.

    It all comes down to money in the long run! deal
    Craig K
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Saw the car today and it has a BIG kink in the middle of the roof, rhs doors unable to be opened.
    Says a 75th in the earlier ad, but it doesn't have the 75th gear, and to me the service sticker on the windscreen looked like 70000ks was the next service, not 10000ks.
    If it is 9000ks and it were days gone by, someone may have reshelled this car, but it's not worth it IMHO.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
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