Carbon Fibre - How to use?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Carbon Fibre - How to use?

    .... Im in the hope that some one here knows how to use Carbon Fibre and were i can find raw materials and how to mould etc. Im thinking to tool around with it till im comfortable, then put it to some good use for myself and others of course.
    Has anyone here used it before?
    Is it like Fibreglass in its construction? If not hows it differ?
    I know its not a cheap material, but who might sell it in kit form?
    A google search reveals little, any www's with help that i could use?

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    Obviously its for auto use, but i love the stuff, super light weight and incredibly adaptive. The US tuners market love the stuff im very suprised it hasn't taken off here yet.
    Any helps and comments here please? - chris
    ... ptui!

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! MY 4's Avatar
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    Well Chris, it's a simple procedure mate!

    First you get a cigarette-lighter, then you get a car and you set it a light!! Easy eh?

    Oh hang on, didn't you say car-bonfire?

    Oh sh*t, i'll just take my lame sense of humour and run back under my frog-rock. BYE!

    ~Dave Power` [MY 4] :

    "#PW33RR" --- > "PW33RR" 2009 Mazda6 MXR-CD, 2.2L Turbo Diesel - More torque than the last! Geesssuz[/COLOR] HOT
    "#ZEG01F" --- > 2006 VW Golf 2.0L TDI - The torque machine SOLD
    "MY 4" --------------- > 2002 Monaco Blue RenaultSport Clio MkII SOLD
    "XES11V" ---------- > 1999 Mitsubishi Mirage STOLEN

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    Exactly the same, Carbon cloth is used instead of Glass cloth, In most cases Glass will do and use Carbon in High Stress areas.
    There are plenty of books on working with Glass Reinforced Plastic (GRP).
    Most Public Libraries have a good range.
    Glass & carbon are used here in Australia extensively, all the kit cars use a combination of Glass/Carbon for all body panels. Most Racing seats & steering wheels are of composite materials.
    I've used it for everything from Model Aeroplane Fuselages to garden water features to extensive use in my R10 Project. Have a look at the pic's of my R10 in the gallery, the visable bits are the front spoiler and rear wing which were first made as Plugs from which i made Moulds. Then it's easy to reproduce as required.
    The only advice i can give is Borrow a book read it then, buy some materials & go fo it. . I suggest Glass cloth & polyester resin to start Carbon fibre is VERY Expensive as is Kevlar.

    Just do it, Nothing learned without experience,no experience gained without HAVING A GO.

    Ps: A look in the yellow pages for Polyester resins will find your nearest supplier, the most likely have books & will be happy to advise on basic tools and materials to start you off.
    cheers!

    <small>[ 05 October 2003, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: Damien Gardner ]</small>
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  4. #4
    XTC
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    VIC: a fine driving state XTC's Avatar
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    Carbon Fibre is not a simple procedure .... not only should it be resined and baked, but to do properly it's gotta be Vacuumbagged, put under pressure and then cut & polished. There is a few places that do custom 1 off parts (a mate here does them), but without a mould to work from - like the part you want copied, it's difficult.

    <a href="http://www.acp-composites.com/" target="_blank">http://www.acp-composites.com/</a>

    - XCT206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    I agree that some of this is true, for light weight mass production. and not within the scope of the do it your selfer. Good results are achievable in the shed. Baking only applies to Epoxy resins. the cut & polish process is only used if you want the carbon fibres showing, such cases are rarely for the avaliable strength, it's more for the ricer effect.
    cheers!
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    How unsafe are the chems, im goign to use a face msak and full length gloves, is it enough?
    Are the materials grindable once set?
    The 2 small books i found at my local library showed how to make it, but not making plugs/moulds nor how to trim it etc. Im assuming an angle grinder will do. And plugs molds, with normal plaster etc. on treadted surface, yes?
    Damien, how thick did you need to make the panels, and how much lighter are they? was it worth the extra cost? Im thinking of a basic bonnet and some interior panels like the door cards, etc.
    Can i bond it to steel, so that the tricky sections of a guard can be left as and the light moulded panel could be bonded to the skeleton of a guard, or is the money spent on better suspention, etc.
    I like your car Damien, very agressive - chris
    ... ptui!

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    Yes, i leave all doors open & work bare handed, not recomended for work place practices. with polyester it's MEKP catalyst and i keep Acetone to clean up & wash off my hands.
    Any face mask needs to be a vapour type as opposed to the paint shop particle type. The opposite is true when working with the cured product. I wear leather gloves while working with cured GRP, glass splinters are almost impossible to find, they annoy you for a week or so until the body, expels it via a pussey sore, not real pleasant.
    I only work in small amounts, no more than 2 litres per job, and each lay up only lasts 1 hour at most. I only mix about 300ml at a time as the pot life is about 20 mins.
    Greater protection would be prefered for longer exposure. And definately in the workplace.

    There is a company here in Melbourne called Solid solutions. They can help with every thing, from making replica car badges, all types of casting and moulds, right through to car bodies and swimming pools.
    There's sure to be something similar in Sydney.
    cheers!

    <small>[ 05 October 2003, 11:55 PM: Message edited by: Damien Gardner ]</small>
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    I usually use 2 layers of 450gsm chopped strand matt, the secret to maximum strength and light weight,is absolute minimum resin, just enough to fully wet the cloth, and roll out any excess. With a third layer of 50mm strips, in a diamomd pattern on large areas.
    I use a jigsaw, angle grinder with cut off blade and a bench belt sander for trimming the cured GRP.
    Yes moulds can be any material at all carefully filled, painted and waxed then coated with a PVA release agent.
    I have found that resin will not stick to the shiney brown packaging tape. So for hatch covers etc. I cover the floor with tape, then do a mockup in stiff card or balsa wood then cover it with GRP. The contact patch will be the perfect shape of the floor, guard or whatever you were moulding too.

    <small>[ 06 October 2003, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: Damien Gardner ]</small>
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  9. #9
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    I have a mate that makes his own glassfibre and now carbon fibre fairings for racing motorbikes. He tells me that - the 'hardener' - MEKP - methyl ethyl ketone peroxide - is extremely dangerous for your eyes. I have somewhere a safety sheet issued by his tech. college. Apparently if you get this in your eyes, it can slowly blind you over a period of days, even though it is no longer hurting. It's critical that you have plenty of water available wherever you work with it, and if you suspect at all that you have some in your eye, flush the eye for ten minutes or so. The safety sheet specified that all students had to carry around a big bottle of water at all times while working with the stuff. Just a friendly warning.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! lucin's Avatar
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    see this for Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide (MEKP)

    <a href="http://www.eagerplastics.com/mekp.htm" target="_blank">http://www.eagerplastics.com/mekp.htm</a>

    that thing about the eyes might be true ...
    Then - 2001 206 Gti
    Now - 2000 306 Gti6
    Now - 1974 GS 1220 Club

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    Thanks Luan,
    When i started using this stuff, there was no such thing as a computer to look up information on.
    I just knew to be careful as i always am with chemicals.
    When i was 17yo i worked for Astor Electrics (those of us older the 35ish would remember the name), In the Etching Dept. One day while mixing a copper cleaning coctail, i dropped an open 22L container of Sulfuric Acid, upon hitting the floor the rubber carboy spewed Acid like a fountain, all over me & a work mate.
    By the time we reached the Showers, we were almost naked. An embarrasing bus ride home for 2 teenagers wearing nothing but trench coats.
    All these years later, checking levels in car batteries makes my skin crawl, the brain never forgets.
    cheers!

    <small>[ 06 October 2003, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Damien Gardner ]</small>
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  12. #12
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    on the trimming side of things, i made up set of custom door pods for speaker in the front of my VL and 306, both times i found it very useful using a dremel for smoothing out any lumps and for trimming away excess.

    let me know how it goes.... i still havent figured out what i will be covering the 306's pods in, i thought about the fake C/F contact, if you find it alright to work with might give it a go myself.

    aparently if you dont it corectly then you wont get the C/F look when it all done????

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