205 with a Jap engine!!!!disgarce or winner?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    205 with a Jap engine!!!!disgarce or winner?

    After reading alot of conversion talk on several postings im curios to know what you guys think?...
    Heres the deal, .....
    Cheap 205 Gti with a clunked motor, can be had for $3000 - 4000, in sydney.
    Put in place a 4AGZE motor/gbox usig original 205 bits and toyota bits if buying a half cut, for about $2500.
    These angies rev easily to 7500 and are superchrged fro the factory, with tweaking good for an easy 220bhp, weigh less than the 205 engine and the parst are not as rare as pug bits.
    Include extra money for custom mounts, driveshafts and cross members??
    Use the toyota ecu and upgarde the 205 pump/ lines. run no a/c, put the intercooler out front and fit a 2.5 exhaust. change the batery for one of those snug oddesy numbers and fit 16" wheels with track day rubber. Better pads alround too. sticki na good clutch and replace the seat with a racy one, as an option.
    problems:
    a) which way to sit the engine east/west or west/east
    b) power steering, rack change?
    c) wirring loom?
    d) legality. ( the engine is both newer and samler in capacity).
    e) drive shafts.
    What do you guys think, am i crazy even sugesting a jap engine?? or am i all talk. Perhaps jap stuff is best left in jap stuff.
    Tel me im dreaming.
    cheers Xqisid.


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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    why not, maybe even a SR20DET and RWD

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    <span>Andreas are you taking the piss, but i forgive you, i loved your 405 incase i didn't
    make that <span class=ResizableText0>clear???!!</span> di you make it home alright??
    For anyone else reading here Andreas 405 is as good inreal life as the pictures sugest. not everyoes cup of tea, more like anyones can of redbull.</span>

    <small>[ 20 November 2002, 09:44 PM: Message edited by: xqisid ]</small>
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  4. #4
    Gus
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    Fellow Frogger! Gus's Avatar
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    You'd need an engineer's certificate because the engine is forced air but I don't imagine you'd have too hard a time getting one...

    If you measure the motor up first you may not need a custom crossmember. I don't know anything about FWD boxes, but could you use the 205 g/box w/ a custom bellhousing?

    If you wanted a blown 205, there might be other ways to do it (programmable EFI, then bolt on a blower or plumb in a turbo...)

    BTW, I saw a custom built roadster with a 4AGZE parked in a workshop in belconnen the other day. Looked like a kid's billy kart with suspension, driveline (RWD), and a 200hp engine... head_ban

    PS Where can I see pics of Andreas' (in)famous 405?

    <small>[ 20 November 2002, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Gus ]</small>

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    nah i was being serious mate...
    if they can fit a cossie lump into a 205 anything is possible...how about a V8?
    or a mid mounted V6?

    or just buy Murat's turbo kit...it's still for sale.

    was good to meet you on the weekend, car made it home fine....was very glad i remembered to take ear plugs! roll_lau

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    Don't do it. It's sacrilege. It's easy to repair the 8V motor and get decent amounts of hp. If you want more than 150-160hp, the Mi16 is also an easy option, once you've spoken to someone who's done it. I can point you in right direction either way. Believe me, 150hp in a 205 with the right gearing is a very quick car!

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  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I'd agree that the MI16 should be the first option, but failing that, adapt the engine to the Pug gearbox and make up brackets that adapt the engine to the original mounts if you can.

    Why not?

  8. #8
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    Good idea with the idea but why waste your time with a 4-agze? highly overated motor.

    I'd look at a SR20DET, CA18DET, or a 3S-GTE or an evo motor 4G63 or something can't remember.

    Gearbox for these could be a problem though. might be worth trying to adapt a pug box to it. Not sure on how strong the pug gearbox is though.
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  9. #9
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    Now your thinking outside the square!!!
    Far be it for me to criticise though (with a GTi6 swap in progress).

    Personally, I'd keep it in the family. If not just Peugeot then at least french, if not french then at least european. Leave the jap stuff (which is pretty cool -don't get me wrong) to the jap cars (which there are plenty of).

    The main reason I bought a Pug was because they're rare and unique here in Oz (especially in Perth) I would never bastardize it jap stuff.

    Goat

  10. #10
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    Sacrilidge!!!!! eek!
    He's a witch, BURN HIM!!!!! mallet
    Not something I'd do personally (obviously)
    Thing is with the mi16 and GTi6 converions, your using the same block so it fits the same engine mounts and evrthing.
    Fitting another engine would open up a huge can of worms.
    And why fit a japanese engine to a French car? Why not just buy a jappa?

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    Isn't there some guy over in denmark or somewhere shoehorning a 24v v6 from an SV into the front of a 205?

    Personally, I think there's probably a point of diminishing returns.....and that more than say 130-150oddkw in a 205 might turn them into an overpowered, tempremental, fragile, lil bomb

    A 504 or 505 with 220hp would be alot of fun, could get either of those for less than a knackered 205 wink

    The 4AGE/GZE are decent engines, the GZEs (the supercharged ones) only put out 120kw or so stock.....getting 220hp out of any 1.6lt engine in road form (ie not tempremental), for any length of time, I don't think is "easy"
    4AGE/GZE might be cheaper to buy as a secondhand jap import....i'm not sure their part prices would be all that much less than the pug 8Vs though, if at all.....
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    DTwo:
    Isn't there some guy over in denmark or somewhere shoehorning a 24v v6 from an SV into the front of a 205?
    Not quite, Hilgert's from Holland and after measuring it he realised the only way to get to the spark plugs would've been through the dash!

    So now it's becoming a mid-mounted project head_ban

  13. #13
    Banned renaulturbo's Avatar
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    Bottom line is there's no need to go Japanese for more mumbo. I reckon Pug's can be spiced up with their own stuff.

    You dont see the 206WRC's with Jap engines. And geeez arent they making the WRX's, GSR's and Focus look lame in the Rally championship approve

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! PUG309's Avatar
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    Traction or lack of would be a intresting in a 24v V6 205. Weight ratio front to back would be like 3:1
    Daniel Djuracic

    Ex UK spec 89 309
    206 XT 1.6 16V (Diablo Red)with Peugeot Lion in back windows

  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    DTwo:
    .....I think there's probably a point of diminishing returns.....and that more than say 130-150oddkw in a 205 might turn them into an overpowered, tempremental, fragile, lil bomb

    A 504 or 505 with 220hp would be alot of fun, could get either of those for less than a knackered 205.....
    I agree wholeheartedly... pay less, easier to make it work, will drive better, be more fun and so on.

    There you go xqisid... change your whole plan of attack!

    <small>[ 21 November 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Ray Bell ]</small>

  16. #16
    Cal
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    I fail to see the point. Build a hot Twin Cam Corolla. They handle too.

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  17. #17
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Geez Cal...you got your cranky pants on today

    What it comes down to is that it could be done...sure. And it may be a faster and cheaper way of getting more mumbo. After all it is your car and you can do whatever you want with it, but this forum has a history of frowning on RICE. It is why we exist here and not in <a href="http://www.ricecookers.com." target="_blank">www.ricecookers.com.</a> IMHO it would not be the French way if you powered your Pug with a ricecooker, and it would just be giving more power to the jap-crap if you undertook this mod.

    What would you say to a Honda driver who dropped in a Pug 16v engine just because he 'could'. I would think...'go buy a friggin pug you tossa', don't be sacrilegious to the Peugeot name by dropping this donk into THAT!!!'

    Just my 2c.
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  18. #18
    Cal
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    Geez Cal...you got your cranky pants on today
    Christ Brad, I'm at work, what do you expect!!

    My point is that the 4AGE\4AGZE or whatever is a Toyota engine, built to go into a Toyota. Some of the cars which the donk went into were excellent cars in their own right (Corolla Twin Cam, Sprinter and MR2 ect ect). The MI16 engine exists and fits into the 205 GTI. I just don't understand why you would go to all of the trouble, and it would be a hell of a lot of trouble, to fit a Jap motor in there because you can. You could probably hang a couple of Rolls Royce 747 jet engines off each side of it too, if you were so inclined! mallet

    Cal.
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    <span>i have oponed a can of worms, mosr of which surounds why this jap engine, well.
    its not over or underated its just the easiest ( read <span class=ResizableText0>smallest/most</span> light) engie that will take forced induction (forged pistons and <span class=ResizableText0>fuel/ratio</span> g/box) that will fit in a 205. These things don;t make 120Kw they make 140Kw (4AGZE) and the whole thing including <span class=ResizableText0>supercharger</span> weigh as much as the pug stuff, helping keep the natural go-kart like handling of the 205. You can easily get 160 Kw out of these (220Hp) with the minor mods i mnetinoed at the top, and these are <span class=ResizableText0>consistantly</span>
    available from jap wreckers for under $2000 icluding g/box from numerous places here in <span class=ResizableText0>sydney.(front</span> cut costs a little more) the Mi 16 is great piece of engine but you need to spend lots more than the GZE to get the same power and <span class=ResizableText0>drivability</span> will go out the window, i should now having an S16. Ever driven a 200hp+ NA engine on the streets? the'ir pigs compared to a forced induction car. But having said all the above and even starting this, my heart too, says leave the jap to jap.... ohh when
    will i learn. anyway. IM not building this, as i didn't get the 205 i was going to be <span class=ResizableText0>practicaly</span> given $500 no rego, not runing, heap of rice etc. its already parts. cheers xqisid ps ill spend the money on the S16. <span class=ResizableText0> </span></span>

    <small>[ 22 November 2002, 06:00 PM: Message edited by: xqisid ]</small>
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  20. #20
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Ever thought of getting an MI16 front cut from Japan?

    That might solve it for you...

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    Sorry,

    The most powerful 4AGZE's from the factory were in AE101s between 91-95 and produced 126kw @ 6400rpm and just over 200NM.....earlier AGZEs only did 120kw

    Not sure where you got 140kw from.....

    There's heaps of information on modifying 4AGE's
    on <a href="http://www.billzilla.org/4agmods.htm" target="_blank">Bill Sherwoods page</a>

    Edit
    Doh!....spelling and link

    <small>[ 22 November 2002, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: DTwo ]</small>
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 05:12 AM.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I'm toying with a similar idea, but thinking about transmissions. R25s (and most Renaults) have crap auto boxes, but the 25 is a bit of a luxery boat and I would love to keep it auto (and keep a Fuego for fanging) - so I am thinking of fitting a Subaru 4 sp auto box. Can be had from front cut importers for a few hundered bucks apparently with computer and wiring. The Hot Rod shop in Castlemaine makes all sorts of adaptor plates for cars (253 into Hiluxs, red motors into landrovers etc and a Commodore V6 into a Morris Minor!!), and will custom make one. Transmission mounts shouldnt be too hard. Will probably have to get Subaru inner driveshaft joints fitted to Renault driveshafts. Leaves only speedo pick up and throttle position sensor to sort out. Probably wouldnt cost more than a reco on the Renault 3sp horror.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    The pric figures ive seen in both magazies and Trading papers, for not just 4AGZE, but a whole heap of jap stuff. Ive never heard of pug bits from japan, ass that wont help as theres only a few forced fed pug egines that made either shores. The 140Kw is from my OPTION 2, jap magazines. those 120Kw figures are from the NA egine, which are almost identcal in block/head configuration, but are often prefered as the gze's didn;t have the build life to its NA conter parts, even then the 20Valve Silver cover with Quads seems to be the prefered choice even in japan.
    The other engine options (sr20, 3s's and ca-18) are considerably bigger and heavier to the point that they will spoil the 205 handling, which is the reaso for getting a 205 GTi in the first place. The 1600 gze are not power houses but for the money, they are like a jap G60 (supercharged vw engine), just cheap and easy toget here in aus.
    I still like the idea of a stripped out 205 with 130Kw at the wheels, lsd, GrpN underpinings and tyres to match!! im still dreaming arn't i.
    "BUILD UP THE 8VALVE, AND ALL SHALL FALL INTO PLACE"-luke 12, 5.
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  24. #24
    Banned renaulturbo's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:
    Ever thought of getting an MI16 front cut from Japan?

    That might solve it for you...
    Hey if anyone finds someone in Japan that will send frog front cuts, please, let me know!!

    Do you know of anyone Ray?

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Warwick's Avatar
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    Nightmare idea the Toyota one. Dont the motors face the other way for a start?? Forget it, unless you want to pay other people to do it for you, then it will be very easy. Expensive though. I had two 205 Gti's. One I threw an mi16 motor into it. Didn't like the car at all, even though it was smooth and all that. The other remained 8V and went to 150BHP approx. It was lumpy at idle and a bit loud. There were another 10 to 15 BHP I'm sure I could have found but didn't have the energy. This car was absolutely delicious. It aint big heaps of power, but in an 850 kg car it felt so nice to drive. The Mi16 car was good, and just as fast, and also smoother and torquier but it didn't have the same feel. In fact I HATED the 205 Mi16 car and how it felt, even though it did nothing wrong. Just a tactile thing.
    "Now my dream lies shattered like the shards of a broken dream"

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