Heel and Toe/RX 7
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 13 of 13
  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    143

    Heel and Toe/RX 7

    I had asked about heel and toe technique before and gave up on it two years ago.

    Over the weekend I was at a track event and noticed a guy in an RX7 who was one of the top drivers, so I asked him about heel and toe. He said he always used heel and toe but he was at a disadvantage in that he had a size 8 "EEEE" foot.

    Wouldn't a size 8 EEEE make heel/toeing easier?

    Advertisement


    Sorry I don't know the Australian equivalent of 8EEEE

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,516
    Give us an idea.... is that like Ian Thorpe-I-have -flippers-instead-of-feet large?
    Or the opposite I-am-Krusty-The-Klown small feet?

    The Heel toeíng has more to do with the placement of pedals. ie how nicely are they laid out for the heel-toe operation out of the factory, rather than the size of the foot. Although people with really large feet might find there isnt enough room to move their feet to manipulate the pedals.
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


  3. #3
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Canberra
    Posts
    1,290
    Thats like whoa you got short fat feet mate.
    Neil
    '94 405 SRBT

    '82 CX 2400 Pallas 5spd

    '77 CX 2400 Pallas 4spd manual Import

    '76 CX Super

    '05 WL Statesman

    '92 HZJ80 Landcruiser

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts bowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Sydney, Concord City, Sir.
    Posts
    3,350
    i have size 12 feet... and found heal and toeing in my mothers charade quite a squeese at times.. lol

    In my father 504 however.. it be perfect!! AS you know teh loud pedel is set up and back of the clutch and brake so its extreamly easy to have your heal on the brake.. and pivoting, hitting the accelerator with your toes ..

    I find it quite well.. perfect .. i havent driven a car yet that provided the pedels in such a fabulas location..

    In my 505 however.. i find my self brakng with my toes... and rolling my foot on to the throttle.. primarily using my heal..

    I love teh 504!!! lol

    all cars should be set up as such!!!!

    Works: 1999 Volvo S40 T4, (has Choo Choo's)
    Playing: R12, SuperPos, thinks It's a race car.
    Previous: SuperGrumpy fuel spitting 504ti(ish), SuperComfortable 505 STI, SuperDoper carried my groceries Mi16
    Wanted Ye old K4J / K4M Click!

    "More and more of less and less" - Marina Abramović

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! two-oh-philic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Glen Waverley, Melbourne
    Posts
    419
    It would be easier for me to do heal on brake but which way is it meant to be? i thought the other way, something about pedal feel..
    205 GTi (S2 ) rolled

    '96 306XR "Sex" Black

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! WRCPUG's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Glen Iris, Melbourne
    Posts
    1,035
    I find the pedal on the 306 are aweful for easy heel toeing. I have to put m leg on a stupid angle and twist it.

    In the GTO heel toeing is easy and very helpul on the racetrack....it comes naturally on the track
    PEUGEOT 306 GTi6 (1997-1999 HYBRID)
    105.4kw (141HP) ATW
    2:09 Phillip Island (Toyo Street Tyres)

    2001 YAMAHA YZF-R6
    119HP

    1993 MITSUBISHI 3000GT Twin Turbo
    300BHP
    STOCK-14.006 @97.4mph HEATHCOTE
    STOCK-1:15 CALDER Long Circuit (Stock Street Tyres + Stock Pads :banghead )
    (For Sale)

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! lucin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    inner E melbourne
    Posts
    453
    i think size of feet in heel-toeing is only relative to the ditance between the accelerator and brake pedals. i have a 206 (which almost all australian journos complain about haveing the pedals too close together) but i find it perfect for heel-toe, whereas i was driving a mates mazda 6 the other day where my foot could barely reach the accelerator whilst braking.
    Then - 2001 206 Gti
    Now - 2000 306 Gti6
    Now - 1974 GS 1220 Club

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,298
    When i did the Luff adavance/race day course we asked this very question.
    Both Ian and Warren Luff (both acomplisehd race drivers/instrutors), said that there was no set rule on exactly what heel-toe is.
    but what you are trying to achive is basicaly the sam for most clutc/manual cars.--- its Braking controled and progresively and keeping the engine revs up and try to match them to the next gear ratio, all with the same foot.
    This can be done many ways. Personaly i brake with my Toes of my right foot, this gives me good feel and control and use the heel of the same foot to blip the throtle when i change down, keeping the revs inline with the next gear,
    ...its easy on a 306, and super easy on 206's, unlike most drivers i like the pedal placement, old Alfas rock for this too. i have a prety average size 9 and a half foot,uk size.
    I used to love watching the older rally guys do this, but now with auto-boxes heel-toe is almost gone at the top-end of motorsport.---chris
    ... ptui!

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,239
    Personaly i brake with my Toes of my right foot, this gives me good feel and control and use the heel of the same foot to blip the throtle when i change down, keeping the revs inline with the next gear
    Yeah I use the same method. I learnt this method early in club racing and has become almost a habbit now if I ever hammer it.

    It's easy in my 206 with the stock pedals, they are positioned well.. I turn my right foot inwards on a slight angle and hit the brakes with the top of my foot and use my heel to match my revs on the accelerator. I think this is the best way, because you only need to tap your accelerator for a second, but need to apply the brakes for a lot longer, your toes or top of your foot gives you much more feel and control when braking then a heel would. I have seen some drivers do it the opposite, but I tink the larger percenatge of people brake with their toes and match revs with their heel.

    I now also in some situations on the track, heel and toe to match revs then throw my left foot over the brake pedal once the gear is slected to continue braking and to increase the reaction time at which the throttle is applied with the right foot. Also means you can get revs up whilst still applying the brakes. Sure it's not great for your pads or discs, but these things can be replaced and once you get used to left foot braking, you find certain corners are quicker with it.
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
    206XR 1.6ltr - SOLD
    BMW E36 325i Coupe
    73 Porsche 911RS

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,298
    n b j:
    I now also in some situations on the track, heel and toe to match revs then throw my left foot over the brake pedal once the gear is slected to continue braking and to increase the reaction time at which the throttle is applied with the right foot. Also means you can get revs up whilst still applying the brakes. Sure it's not great for your pads or discs, but these things can be replaced ) and once you get used to left foot braking, you find certain corners are quicker with it.[/QB]
    NBJ, im still learning to drive consistantly quick.
    when using left foot braking, how do you disengage the clutch, my car has a heavy flywheel and i can feel the inertia of it carry the front wheels if the clutch is engaged... I brake as late as posible but to halt the car down quickly i need to have the clutch in to get the inertia of the flywheel off from powering into the gearbox and then hence not afect the braking...
    am i doing something wrong, or is there a flaw in my techniques, which don't suit my car or style??
    Basicaly i feel like i never need to use left foot braking, i dont trail brake out of the corners as i try to power out of them with out needing to settle the car with the brakes, i try to havete car lined up and set out of the braking zone, hit the apex and power out smoothly... is this wrong or am i finding the limits of the car/setup i have??? reminder that ive only driven very few (8 in total) race cars on race tracks, ie at the limit.---cheers chris
    ... ptui!

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! BW205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Mostly Hong Kong and sometimes Brisbane
    Posts
    513
    The pedals in my 205 GTi are perfectly close for doing heel and toe...but the only problem with the 205 is that the brake pedal is approximately the same undepress height as the throttle pedal when not pressed...therefore I have brake with my toes/ball of foot then bring my heel up to blip the throttle.

    Cheers
    Billy head_ban
    Stock '87 205 GTi
    Stock '98 306 GTi-6

    -Memories are good only if you don't have to deal with the past.-

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! BW205's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Mostly Hong Kong and sometimes Brisbane
    Posts
    513
    Forgot to add that the pedals in the 306 GTi is so spaced apart compared to the 205...which I now find it hard to do heel and toe....probably also the fact that I have really small feet...like UK 7.5

    However, I do find it easier to left foot brake in the 306 then in the 205...because in the 205 if your left foot brake you might have a high chance of getting your foot stuck between the clutch and the brake pedal.

    Cheers
    Billy roll_lau
    Stock '87 205 GTi
    Stock '98 306 GTi-6

    -Memories are good only if you don't have to deal with the past.-

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,239
    Chris,

    Yeah there is nothing wrong with that out all. It's the way to do it

    Firstly the car I drive at the track is much more powerfull then then a pug and it has a centerforce strengthend racing clutch and flywheel. It means I can abuse and drop the clutch a lot more, even with 380BHP at the wheels. I can let the clutch out reasonably quickly whilst breaking whithout locking up the wheels. It is also fine to leave it engaged at 7,000 without doing any damage, provided the clutch is let out at a reasonably quick pace and not ridden for too long.

    Obvioulsy you have selected your gear and let your clutch out before you hit the apex of the corner...? (I am still healing and toeing with the right foot whilst changing down gears) If more braking is still needed through the apex, I do this with the left foot and start putting the power on with the right foot simultaniously, even though the car still needs to slow more to prevent understeering or whatever. This method will give you more control over your exit speed and usually results in a faster exit speed due to the power already being there when you come off the brake. It also keeps your revs up. If your are using good quality ventilated discs...then really your pads are the only thing that will wear.

    Like I said, this is only effective on some corners, it just dpends on the corner.
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
    206XR 1.6ltr - SOLD
    BMW E36 325i Coupe
    73 Porsche 911RS

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •