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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    History Q

    Question

    Was a Peugeot the first car ever fitted with pneumatic tyres?

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    Cheers

    Rod
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    In trying to answer my own question I've just discovered that:

    1) the Peugeot 201 was the first car with independent front suspension as a standard fitting,

    2) Peugeot were actually the first to fit rubber (non-pneumatic) tyres on a 4 wheeled, petrol driven, vehicle, in 1892

    Anyone have a list of other Peugeot innovations?

    Cheers

    Rod
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  3. #3
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    first wagon
    first light diesel
    first DOHC
    as for the dates i would have to research but they definately had these firsts

    rod
    i think michelin put the first pneumatic tyres on a pug and they did the paris-bordaux-paris race back in around 1909 ??? and had numerous punctures
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Might have been 1897 I think for the pneumatics, Pugrambo.

    How about "first production sun roof?"

    What about hemi combustion chambers / cross flow heads?

    I think the 403 was the first production car fitted with a diesel?

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 12 July 2003, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Rod Hagen:
    Might have been 1897 I think for the pneumatics, Pugrambo.

    How about "first production sun roof?"

    What about hemi combustion chambers / cross flow heads?

    I think the 403 was the first production car fitted with a diesel?

    Cheers

    Rod
    402's had a diesel option as well so it may have even been the 402 with the privilige of bieng the first light diesel production car
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Found a nice little "history" site at : <a href="http://peugeot.mainspot.net/hist14.shtml" target="_blank">http://peugeot.mainspot.net/hist14.shtml</a>

    It lists the 403 as the "first standardised production diesel car"

    It also says, to answer Ray's query in the Peugeot forum, that, in 1959:
    The 403 is the first mass-produced car in the world to have an automatic fan which is controlled by engine temperature.
    Cheers

    Rod
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Add "First car in the world with 4 cam shafts and 4 valves per cylinder" (In the Peugeot L76 which won the ACVf Grand Prix at Dieppe in 1912)

    Apparently the very first Peugeot with a diesel engine appeared in 1928.

    First turbo-diesel car (in the 604 in 1979)?

    first particle filter on a diesel engine 1999?

    Cheers

    Rod
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  8. #8
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Rod Hagen:
    Add "First car in the world with 4 cam shafts and 4 valves per cylinder" (In the Peugeot L76 which won the ACVf Grand Prix at Dieppe in 1912)

    Apparently the very first Peugeot with a diesel engine appeared in 1928.

    First turbo-diesel car (in the 604 in 1979)?

    first particle filter on a diesel engine 1999?

    Cheers

    Rod
    yes that's right
    the 604 was the first Turbo diesel car
    it was around long before the 505 ever had one mounted under the bonnet
    amazing how many people never seem to remember the 604 as a first in something
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  9. #9
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Rod Hagen:


    It also says, to answer Ray's query in the Peugeot forum, that, in 1959:
    The 403 is the first mass-produced car in the world to have an automatic fan which is controlled by engine temperature.
    Cheers

    Rod
    yes feb 1959 to be precise
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  10. #10
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Rod Hagen:
    Might have been 1897 I think for the pneumatics, Pugrambo.

    How about "first production sun roof?"

    What about hemi combustion chambers / cross flow heads?

    I think the 403 was the first production car fitted with a diesel?

    Cheers

    Rod
    1895 The range is extended by the addition of the Type 11 (a two-seater) and the Type 12 (a closed estate). During the Paris-Bordeaux-Paris race, Édouard Michelin tries out the first pneumatic tyres on the Éclair. The first prize is won by Koechelin in a Peugeot. Production of the first ball bearings bearing the Lion trade mark. Introduction of the first Peugeot commercial vehicle, the Type 13, a delivery van which will only be produced for two years.

    not too far off rod
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Rod Hagen
    <strong>Add "First car in the world with 4 cam shafts and 4 valves per cylinder" (In the Peugeot L76 which won the ACVf Grand Prix at Dieppe in 1912)

    Apparently the very first Peugeot with a diesel engine appeared in 1928.....
    I was ready to post that there had been a diesel Pug in the twenties, you beat me to it.

    But you can go back to wherever you found that quote and send them a message... it wasn't quad cams at all, just two cams, four valves per cylinder.

    And Peugeot was definitely not the first to have twin cams... just the 4-valve arrangement.

    Were not Peugeot the first to manufacture cars for sale as well?

  12. #12
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i have always been told that peugeot were the first to have twin cam and as such all twin cam motors since have been modeled from the original pug engine
    there was something someone posted in here not all that long ago that said the same think i'm sure
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  13. #13
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    pugrambo:
    first wagon
    When was the first wagon launched?

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  14. #14
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    around the type 45 i think
    it seated up to 12 people
    (before volvo was a thought )
    i will check my OEM peugeot cassette i have here from when they used to be issued with new 505's and 604's and let you know unless i or someone finds the info online somewhere
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pugrambo
    <strong>I have always been told that peugeot were the first to have twin cam and as such all twin cam motors since have been modeled from the original pug engine.....
    You might be right... or they might be right...

    Certainly, plenty of engines were modeled from the 1912/14 Peugeot engines, Ernest Henry designed them and then went on to do similar engines for Ballot.

    A quick google search shows that Alfa also had their first twin cam in 1914.

    Who's got the energy to look further into this?

  16. #16
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:
    Originally posted by pugrambo
    <strong>I have always been told that peugeot were the first to have twin cam and as such all twin cam motors since have been modeled from the original pug engine.....
    You might be right... or they might be right...

    Certainly, plenty of engines were modeled from the 1912/14 Peugeot engines, Ernest Henry designed them and then went on to do similar engines for Ballot.

    A quick google search shows that Alfa also had their first twin cam in 1914.

    Who's got the energy to look further into this?
    peugeot won the indy 500 in 1913 with a peugeot fitted with a pug twin cam engine
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  17. #17
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    That was, of course, the 1912 French GP car.

    The 1914 GP car was a much smaller device.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    Mercedes were fitting diesels as a regular production option before Peugeot. A friend of mine has a diesel ute from the early 50s. It is the pre war 170 body style, and is factory standard. The "Ponton" Mercedes was also sold as a diesel.
    As for a turbo diesel, if the 604TD came out in 1979, it cannot be the first. Mercedes were selling a version of the W116 pre 1979 S class in America with a turbo 300D engine. It was called the 300SD.
    I believe the first manufacturer to offer a car for sale was Daimler, but i am not certain.
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  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! AlsPug504's Avatar
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    First 4 valve per cylinder in 1923. I think that is right? question

  20. #20
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    AlsPug504:
    First 4 valve per cylinder in 1923. I think that is right? question
    the twin cam pug engine used in 1913 was a 4V head
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  21. #21
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    1913 is [edit: not} correct... did I say 1912 before? Yes, I did... sorry about that.

    See next two posts...

    <small>[ 14 July 2003, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: Ray Bell ]</small>

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    What about the Peugeot L76 which won the ACF Grand Prix at Dieppe in 1912?

    Ray has suggested that it wasn't quad cam, but wasn't it 4 valves a pot eitrher?

    Cheers

    Rod
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  23. #23
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You know, I was sure that it was 1912... but I looked in a book to check it and it said 1913!

    Yeah, the 4-valve engines were twin cam as well.

    So 1912 it is... Dieppe... pits below ground level... monster cars... flat tyres... all that stuff.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Probably US bias leading to the 1913 figure, Ray (if it didn't happen in the US then it doesn't count, like the "World Series", WWII starting in 1941,, WW1 in 1917, terrorism, etc etc) . 1913 was the year the Peugeot first won Indianapolis with the same motor.

    Was this 7 litre monster also the first with hemi combustion chambers and a cross flow head? (Valiant "hemi" owners eat your heart out!)

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 14 July 2003, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  25. #25
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I'm sure it was...

    Unfortunately I don't have any real reference material here to check this out.

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