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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Interesting offerings in today's Melbopurne Trading Post

    There are a couple of interesting offerings in the Vintage section of todays Melbourne trading post.

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    One is a 1953 Light 15 (British) in need of loving care and attention. (From memory it was under $2000)

    The other is a 403 apparently in very good condition - they are asking $5900.

    People with with 405 and 306 turbo diesels in the regular sections too.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    thanks for that link Rod....i was so fascinated by the light 15 that i had 2 go and see it and although in need of complete restoration the car is in great original condition....i m going to see it (during daylight) this saturday and will be bringing a deposit with me...hopefully the two guys that came in the blue cx after me dont buy it there and then (mark was one of them, does he attend the forum)...whatever the case being, i thought i d never see a 2000 dollar 15 in as good a condition as this...in fact i openly told the owner that he might be possibly underselling it but he was happy to let it go at 2k...so if its not sold by saturday morning i ll become a light 15 owner soon....

    cheers
    dino

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Good luck Dino. Sounded like a very good buy to me too.

    Lovely classic car, the Light fifteen. If it wasn't for the fact that the wife would have killed me I would have been sorely tempted myself!

    Cheers

    Rod
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  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I shouldn't say what happened to my Light 15, should I?

  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    sounds like another perfect car for a R16 engine graft
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    do tell...what happened to your 15???also,..what are the possibilities for motor like that...i think they originally only had about 77 odd horsepower...would it be wise getting custom extractors with custom intake manifold onto a motor like this...if i buy the car i d like to keep it original but wouldn t mind a little bit more useable grunt...any thoughts....its basically an id engine isnt it???another thing...a coupe version of this car would make one hell of a beautiful rod....not a lot of cars out there with a grill as nice as that....maybe the duce...

    cheers
    dino

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    My father reckoned it was like a squashed '34 Ford... and it is, really.

    But he said that because he didn't want me to have it. I was only young at the time and he took my bankbook off me when I bought it. Then I ran short of money and couldn't afford new tyres when I needed them...

    Voila! A wet Cahill Expressway, a very slippery front seat, no safety belts (they were to go in the following week!) and I kind of didn't have a chance to correct the slide...

    Bounced from wall to wall in the tunnel.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Keep it straight if you get it Dino. There aren't too many of these around now. Once they are gone there won't be any more!

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 16 May 2003, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    i ve got to get it first...can not wait till tommorrow...in regards 2 restoration i plan to restore it to original specs although i dont see anything wrong with a modern day engine rebuild and custom exhaust and intake manifolds as they really are bolt on parts that can be taken of anytime and the originals put back on...ceartinly have no plans to stray from the original at ALL...my only problem at this stage is that i wont be getting ANY for a while as my missus is not terribly happy...but i m sure she ll come around...she knows how much i enjoy my cars...

    cheers
    dino

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Promise her sex, that'll fix her.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    the car or the wife????


  12. #12
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    OK....i m feeling a little bit sad and blue (time to tune into a jazz station as i have no jazz music)..why u may ask....well somebody has put a deposit on the light 15 sight unseen apparently).... i must admit i m really disapointed...the owner just called me up and he said that i d have seconds if the deposited owner pulls out....Andrew (from citroen club)apparently saw the car as well but knowing of me he was A REAL GENTLEMEN and offered to be third in line (should i pull out)....thank you...it seems a bit crazy though because i openly told this guy that he might be underselling and to make sure he calls me if he gets a higher bid..(as i could not get the money till today)instead he s tAken a deposit while he could have esily started a bidding war....after rod had posted about the 15 i went and saw it that night as the owner was at work and by the time i saw it, it was close to 7 pm...pretty hard 2 see much...so the owner agreed for a saturday daylight inspection as i wanted to have look at the underside...i had promised him at that stage a deposit or full payment however in this case it appears that money talked and bullshit walked...real shame....however if the person who purchased the 15 attends the forum...well i congratulate you on a solid purchase...i thought the car was IDEAL for restoration...completely original and in decent condition....LESSON LEARNED: i used to carry a pile of money when going 2 have a look at a car and have made a few IMPULSIVE purchases which i regreted...so i stopped doing that as it forced me to think about the vehicle and i only made sure i bought it if i was certain about my decision...it appears that in this case that might have been the wrong decision...time to open that bootle of viskey....again thanks andrew for being a gentleman...

    cheers
    dino

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Well, you never know Dino. It still might come good. But from the sound of it I reckon this vehicle was probably undervalued by around 100%. When these ones come up you have to jump right away. Take a look and head for the handy bank for a deposit before the next phone call comes in is the way to go.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    we ll see....to be quite frank if the seller had been half as smart as he appeared i would have probably have gone up to 4 K (as i was after a genuine restoration project...although i was really after a ds)but now i feel a little bit hard done by as i never got the PROMISED daylight inspection...and anybody who knows me would also know that i dont like 2 be ******with (if u know what i mean)....i took out 5K today as i was going to JUMP on this car the moment i purchased it (if the daylight inspection had been successfull-which i m now sure it would have been)..so now we ll see...considering what a gentleman andrew was i d rather him have seconds to be quite frank (thats if this buyer pulls out)... i might even be persuaded to offer the current buyer a 1K premium over the 2K price but like i said i kind of feel hard done by so we ll see...the ball s ceartinly NOT in my court now so its pointless dwelling on it (which is hard as the 15 ceartinly stole my hart)...god knows i might tell the owner to go and ****** if he calls me again....thats just how i am...all i can say again is congratulations to the new owner...

    cheers
    dino

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts PeterT's Avatar
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    I'd ring him up and offer $2500.

    '92 205 Mi16
    '90 Mi16x4

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    i d offer him $3000 grand IF that was the right thing 2 do...BUT ITS NOT...like rod said you have to be decisive...simple fact of the matter is that some bloke has PUT a DEPOSIT down on the car and i d be the last person to try and pull the rug under him even if the current seller was prepared 2 do that...i believe in FAIR dealings...if this guy pulls out i m than more than likely to put an offer less than what i originally promised as i was initially more than fair in telling him that the car was undervalued but i m certinly not about 2 be made a fool off....he s selling and i am buying...he wants the best price and i want one 2 and a fair bidding proccess would have let the best man win....but once you make a fatal mistake of offending a fair purchaser than u pretty much desrve the result u achieve....he s sold the car for whatever but if he had been smart about it he could have made more on the car ...much more....

    cheers
    dino

    we ll see what happens....if this guy pulls out i ll still be interested but a little bit more savy....

  17. #17
    Banned renaulturbo's Avatar
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    Is the light 15 one of those mafia citroens? (from the 40's)

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    the 15 from what i know was one of the first monocoque bodied cars...ie unitary construction....they were initially produced in 34 i believe and were quite revolutionary with their front wheel drive and the introduction of the famous citroen suspension with the big 6 version of the same car which was slightly more powerfull with the 6 cyl.motor...they came in coupe convertible standrd wheelbase and longer wbase form ...i think there might have been a wagon 2...the one i looked at was the british model '53 i think but overall similar to original model but for few changes...the british model had a timber dash, 12volt electrics and a protruding boot instead of wheel holder....i dont really know much about them but yes they were popular with the criminal element as they handled really well compared 2 the competition of the era...mind you the cops had them as well, a bit like the situation with the current wrxes....next time you watch a WWII you ll see plenty of them....in many ways similar in style to the mercs of the era except the citroen was more elegant, gentler in lines and not as nose heavy visually....id/ds was the car that replaced the 15 for citroen...in fact i believe the early id carried over the old motor which was probably one of the reasons they felt so underpowered...

    cheers
    dino
    ps...i m sure ther r many other guys here who know much more about them..be nice if somebody could post some pics...i m useless at that...

  19. #19
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    And I think they still hold a world record... is that not right?

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    The Traction Avant, which the 15 was one model of, was originally going to have a V8 engine and automatic transmission, very advanced for 1934, especially when combined with unitary construction and front wheel drive. There were problems with the auto box, however, and a set of conventional gears was squeezed into the auto casing. The V8 was also dropped as being too radical, and difficult to perfect.
    The protruding boot was on French models as well as English, but was only fitted to post war models. Another clue to age is the side panels of the bonnet. Pre war cars had 2 fold out louvres for ventilation, while post war cars had regular slotted vents. The Pilote wheels were also only on pre war examples.
    The convertible was only built pre war to my knowlege, and there was a version with either 7 seats or a large load space in which the entire rear panel of the car opened out sideways.
    Due to the hurried nature of gearbox developement, the gearboxes are not renowned for strength, and the lack of an oil filter (at least on pre war ones) means servicing is important.
    <img src="http://www.ukcar.com/history/citroen/avant_citroen2.jpg" alt=" - " />
    <img src="http://www.cta.a.se/eng12x.jpg" alt=" - " />
    <img src="http://www.cta.a.se/eng13x.jpg" alt=" - " />
    <img src="http://www.cta.a.se/eng06xx.jpg" alt=" - " />
    Pugs Rule!

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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    thanks for the pics....i m sure u ll all agree that its one fine looking car....we can just hope that whoever has bought the abovementioned 15 will do it justice as i ceartinly had great plans for it...which makes looking at the above pics even more uncomfortable....i wonder if we can get him onto the forum...it would be nice to see what happens to the car into the future...like rod said; there is no more of these and the living survivors deserve to be restored to the highest level which might be easier 2 do with a 15 than with some ids or deesess as they r a much simpler machine physically...

    cheers
    dino

  22. #22
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Pugnut403:
    The Traction Avant, which the 15 was one model of, was originally going to have a V8 engine and automatic transmission, very advanced for 1934, especially when combined with unitary construction and front wheel drive. There were problems with the auto box, however, and a set of conventional gears was squeezed into the auto casing. The V8 was also dropped as being too radical, and difficult to perfect.
    I find a lot of that hard to swallow...

    Auto boxes weren't to hit the American market for a couple of years after this. Additionally, the 'casing' for an auto doesn't lend itself to the fitment of conventional gears at all... unless it was a type of auto we've never seen.

    Perhaps automatic shifting of conventional gears?

    Then that kind of puts the mockers on the other point about fragility 'due to the hurried nature of gearbox development'...

    Of note is the description, in an article in Wheels in the mid-sixties, about Andre Citroen.

    This mentioned that he made trips to America and came back with new bits and pieces from there. But it also said that he was impractical with them, sitting and looking at them while Renault would go ahead and use them in production. This doesn't sound like the way you'd describe someone who was intent on introducing the first automatic transmission!

  23. #23
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    qb][/QUOTE]

    Perhaps automatic shifting of conventional gears?

    QB][/QUOTE]

    sounds like something the early holdens had
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Man, I am SO GLAD that wasn't for sale near me (I'd have bought it on the spot ) Dunno what the hell I would've done with it. I honestly have no idea what I'm going to with my latest aquisition wink

    How about this, it's a gorgious car, and hopefully oneday in the (very very very very distant future) I hope I might inherit it

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  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    What I said in the post is what I have been able to find from various sources. I obviously cannot vouch for its authenticity, not having seen the prototype myself. From the information I have been able to gather, however, They were intending to use an auto, developed by Sensaud de Lavaud, but they could not get it to work. I have no idea how the box was supposed to work, but from Citroen's record, you could bet it would not be conventional.
    The V8 was only to be used in the Cabrio and coupe models. It was of 3.8 Litres, and only a few were ever made. They were displayed at the 1934 Salon, and were thought to have been destroyed.
    The 3 speed manual used in the early cars is said to have been hastily developed to replace the failed auto, and squeezed into a modified version of the auto housing.
    Traction Avants were also one of the first cars to use rack and pinion steering, from 1936.
    The large bootlid was introduced in 1952.
    One way of telling the French and English versions apart is that the French cars had painted radiator surrounds, while the English ones had chrome surrounds.
    The weakest point in the transmission is said to be the crown wheel.

    I would never intentionally post information that I know to be untrue. If any of this information is untrue, it is due to innacuracies in my reference material. It does, however, seem reasonable that Citroen would be experimenting with the limits of contemporary technology.
    Pugs Rule!

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