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Thread: Braking

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Braking

    A guy just told me that when his brakes get wet he puts his left foot on the brake and then reverses for a car length or so. He says this dries(resets) his brakes. Is this true?

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi,

    yep, you would need to dry you brakes out if you had drums all around. Though just holding your foot on the brakes in the forward direction to warm them should do...Why go backwards??

    Disks are much better at clearing water, though old 'D' citroens with the enormous inboard disks tend to vibrate loudly and shudder if you don't first 'dry' them after a dunking (though they still work).

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Shouldnt make any difference going forward or reverse, a few rotations should dry them out if not get rid of 99% of the water. Heat will take care of the rest.

    Chipper

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Chipper, have you ever done this to dry your brakes?

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Cant say I can remember a situation where I have had the brakes sogged enough to render it !!!

    Its more than likely happened before with rain and the like, but once the brakes are hot, they should dry out really quickly.

    I cant say your mates theory wouldnt work, I just wonder why he does it in reverse?

    Chipper

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I can't figure out why he does it in reverse either. He was in one of the car chat rooms so I thought I 'd ask you since you're a high performance driver.
    Chipper do any Pugs have ABS?

  7. #7
    Simon's Avatar
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    Sounds like a load of piffle to me! What happens if the brakes are really wet??

    If I have forded a creek, the brakes get applied in gentle repeated applications to dry them out, but it would take longer than a car length, especially with drums.

    Sounds like the guy is getting confused with self adjusting drum brakes, where you reverse the car a car length, then apply the brakes to set the adjusters. With discs it is no longer necessary, and it certainly doesn't work with non self adjusting drums!

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  8. #8
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Centifugal force throws the water off disks as quick as it gets on. I've been through heaps of creeks in my 504 and the brakes always work just as well when I come out the other side as they did before I went in. You usually only need to put your foot on the brakes if you have drums, because centifugal force tends to trap the water in them. I can't convince my grandmother, however, that you no longer need to dry brakes out. Old habits die hard.
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  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Gentle repeated applications is the go espec for drums but i still do it with 4w discs cause it is a vg habit i don't wanna lose.
    One time i forgot and almost couldn't stop about 10 min later

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    James,

    They may have been an option on some models, but mine are not ABS enhanced.

    Chipper

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Chipper, have you ever driven a car with ABS? If so, what's your opinion of it?
    I've heard some guys say they're more in control without ABS. YOu don't know what to believe anymore. I do know some of Audis European models have an ABS system that can be turned off, strange someone told me there are a few surfaces where it's better not to have ABS, don't know what they'd be though.

    If you had had ABS in the messy corner with the moss last weekend would you have handled it differently and would the outcome have been the same?

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    James,

    Only a 540i Bimmer, but not in any emergency situation. It would be of assistance on a wet surface to stop locking a wheel, but on a dirt road, they can be a hinderence.

    Basically , on a bitumen road surface where you lock a wheel, the tyre melts on the contact patch and creats little rubber "balls" that the tyre skates along on, increasing stopping distances.

    On a dirt road, you will stop faster by locking a wheel and sweeping the path clear of the "balls", in this instance, small rocks and the like.

    It may not work in all situations, but this is the theory behind it.

    I doubt the ABS would have stopped my spin the other weekend as I believe it was a traction/slip angle problem with the tyres and may have actually prevented me from locking the fronts to spin the front back around, it may have taken longer to stop, putting me closer to the bush than I already got. Dont know for sure, never been in that situation with an ABS equiped car.

    Chipper

  13. #13
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Hi Guys, thought I may as well put my two bobs worth in. I think Simon is on the right track, the only reason I think you would need two reverse and dab the brakes is with self adjusting drums, but its got nothing to do with water, simple holding your left foot on the brake while driving foward will be enough to dry them, and its only drums that have the problem.
    How good is ABS, I dunno, Its good on wet smooth roads but anything else I say no, on gravel its terrible the car just won't stop, both of my Gordini's (no ABS) will stop heaps quicker then the MI16 (with ABS) in all conditions except wet smooth roads. I suppose you could argue that most accidents happen on wet swooth roads so therefore ABS is ok. I know someone in Tasy with a 306 Cab who has to travel down a mountain on rough gravel and they have expierenced complete brake fade several times, I mean no brakes at all, very scary, the car has been to Peugeot several times, the Tasy dealer even sent it to Melbourne and the complete ABS system was replaced under warrenty but still the problem is still there, they are saying the coragations are confusing the ABS for some reason but no one can cure it.
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  14. #14
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    Just a bit to add to Chipper's last post...in the dirt, apparently you also build up a wedge of debris in front of the tyre which helps you stop. ABS will make the wheel roll over the wedge and on top of the gravel etc. hence increasing the braking distance.

    Stuey the frog site latecomer


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  15. #15
    Phasis
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    In the defensive driving course i did (Greg Hansford) I asked the same question. The reply was...
    "If your wheels are locked, the car will slide down the camber of the road, and take you off the side, and you wont be able to stear because the wheels will be plowing."

    In any case, I have ABS, and have never had to use them for an emergency. A few times I have hooked in to see what difference my new EBC brake pads made, and the new Falkens. Needless to say, I had to dig VERY deep to get any wheels to hit ABS.

    In hard driving situations though, like coming down the backside of Glorious, had very slight ABS action, not enought to warrant slowing down though. It's always good to know that there is that extra safety net there if you ever need it. (same goes with airbags, cept im not testing that out)

  16. #16
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    If only you could see the size of the hole my wagon was looking into when I locked a wheel the other month!

    Don't give me any of that 'better to lock a wheel in the gravel' stuff... it was slowing down till the wheel locked, then it stopped slowing donw.

  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    having had 2 cars now with ABS and numerous with out the system i tend to like the ABS system even though i did perfect the squeeze and ease technique on normal braking cars.
    even though i have really only used the ABS when using the B.L.A.T. system (Brake Late And Turn) i found that you can go further before breaking to corner on any surface to a certain degree
    one thing i do find though is after the car has been washed the brakes are nearly non-existant and they take a few pumps to dry the rotors off. also i have noticed on both the 405 that i had and now the 306 that virtually in an instant of water hitting the rotors they get a rusty discolouration on them that i had never seen on any other pug that i have owned (now numbering 18-19)
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  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Andreas's Avatar
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    no brakes after washing the car...yep i've got that aswell.
    discoloured discs after rain...yep i've got that aswell.
    and they're not even standard 405 discs, but with just a few pumps they're back to normal.

    Andreas

  19. #19
    Phasis
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    The brakes on my 306 also rust within a few seconds of getting wet, cept, after washing they are substantially more grippy, but only till the rotors get cleaned by the pad.

  20. #20
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    Ray, I was only condensing what many top dirt road drivers and car manufacturer's test drivers have said over the years. Obviously it depends on exactly what type of surface you're driving on. If it's soft enough for the wheel to dig in, like many of the gravel roads here in WA, you'll stop quicker with a locked wheel. If it's a hard dirt surface with a scattering of ball bearing gravel on top, you maybe won't. In general terms. Makes sense to me.

    Stuey


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