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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Peugeot Supermacy

    After three stages of Rally Australia Marcus Gronholm leads team mate Harri Rovenpera and in the Peugeot 206 WRCs.
    What more can us say?

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  2. #2
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    I saw Marcus' car driving down the main road of Perth yesterday. (I work 1km from Parc Ferme).

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  3. #3
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Great coverage of the San remo on the teev a couple of weeks back, the pugs and cit loved the wet bitumen, shame the cits didn't come to Aus they were just getting into their stride.

    Those drivers work hard for their times, love to get over to WA and catch some of the action, www.worldrally.net is the next best for live coverage, webcams don't quite capture it though. Best of luck to the pugs

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  4. #4
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    04 NOV 2001 15:02
    Peugeot's Marcus Gronholm has driven an absolutely brilliant rally to win his second Telstra Rally Australia in a row. The Finnish driver was untouchable, winning seven of the 21 special stages outright and only relinquishing the lead to Colin McRae (Ford) for one special stage - on SS6 on the first day.

    Some good coveage on Channel 10 today, a very worthy win for Peugeot

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  5. #5
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Results: RAC Rally of Great Britain

    1. Marcus Gronholm (Fin) Peugeot 206 WRC – 3hr 23min 44.8sec

    2. Harri Rovanpera (Fin) Peugeot 206 WRC – 2:27.1

    3. Richard Burns (GB) Subaru Impreza WRC – 3:15.4

    4. Alister McRae (GB) Hyundai Accent WRC – 6:48.8

    5. Armin Schwarz (Ger) Skoda Octavia WRC – 7:31.3

    6. Kennet Eriksson (Swe) Hyundai Accent WRC – 8:11.0

    7. Didier Auriol (Fra) Peugeot 206 WRC – 8:21.1

    8. Bruno Thiry (Bel) Skoda Octavia WRC – 10:55.6

    9. Gregoire de Mevius (Bel) Peugeot 206 WRC – 14:17.7

    10. Toshihiro Arai (Jpn) Subaru Impreza WRC 15:06.4

    11. David Higgins (GB) Subaru Impreza Gr. N – 21:11.0

    12. Ramon Ferreiros (Per) Mitubishi Lancer Evo Gr.N – 21:14.7

    13. Henning Solberg (Nor) Subaru Impreza WRC – 23:51.4

    14. Alistair Ginley (GB) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo Gr.N – 26:47.9

    15. Sebastien Loeb (Fra) Citroen Saxo Super 1600 – 26:52.5

    16. Stig Blomqvist (Swe) Mitsubishi Lancer Evo Gr.N – 26:56.4

    Old news I know, but thought it worth a mention
    not a bad result for Peugeot and believe Burns will drive a Pug next year

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  6. #6
    VIP Sponsor David Cavanagh's Avatar
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    Yes its all great to see and congrats to Peugeot but you know what cheeses me off, why don't Peugeot advertise it, Mitsubishi and Subaru bore us to tears when ever they do anything good but Peugeot do far better than anyone else and no one knows about it, oh yes we all know because we're all Pug nuts and rev heads but when Mr Average thinks of rally cars he thinks of WRX of Evo 5.
    So come on you Peugeot advertising men, the factory is working hard to give you the best advertising campain you could ask for and yet we never hear anything.

    David.
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  7. #7
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    My opinion is that Puegeot seem quite arrogant about their status in the car market. If they needed to sell more cars, then they would push the sucesses, but they don't.

    Now, I am not saying that this is a bad thing. I love the fact that I drive and understated car and people say...geez, I never knew Pugs went so well, or handle to well. A surpise is always best I think.
    B to the R to the A from the D
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  8. #8
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    This is only relevant in Australia. They certainly advertise in Europe, believe me.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! billtran's Avatar
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    I remember that Peugeots used a Front wheel drive car with quite some success. The question is, what are the rallying advantages of a front wheel drive car over a 4WD car and what surfaces are they better in? (I always thought 4WD was better in rallying until I saw the successes of the Peugeots and the Citroen Xsara)
    You're not paranoid if everyone hates you.

  10. #10
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    Bill, the cars with WRC in their name are AWD, even the Hyundai Accent.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  11. #11
    Local Tyrant gibgib's Avatar
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    I see World Rally Championship is available for playstation 2. Anyone played it?
    They have bill boards advertising it around Sydney with a Bitsofshitty shown - Not a PUG
    <a href="http://www.worldrally-online.com/playstation/" target="_blank">http://www.worldrally-online.com/playstation/</a>

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    OK here's the low down on rally cars ( I consider myself a bit of an armchair expert).
    Basically a 4wd car well perform better in ANY conditions that a front driver.
    The reason the Peugeot (306 Maxi) and Citroens (Xsara Kit Car) did so well with their FWD cars (on tarmac only) was because of the regulations. The regs for "Kit Cars" stated they had to weight a minimum of 980kg while the "WRC" cars had to weight 1230kg. And Peugeot and Citroen build such excellent engines that they could wring nearly 300bhp out of the normally aspirated 2 litres. The WRC car are limited 300bhp from a 2 litre turbo. The regs also allowed the kit cars to be wider and have fewer components from the road car it was based on. Thus they were able to fully develop them into tarmac specailists (aka touring cars for rally)
    So the reason the Pugs and Cits did so well was because they were nearly the same power (all beit at 9000rpm) and 250kg lighter.
    The FIA didnt like their top world championship class getting beaten by so called Tarmac Specialists, so they changed the regs to make the kit cars heavier, thus slower.
    That's one of the reasons we now see Peugeot and Citroen competing in the World Rally Championship with WRCars.
    Hope that's clear enough to understand.

    Izza

    Peugeot: 2000, 2001 World Rally Champions for Manufactuers

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
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    IZZA,

    Your a smart man if it were not for the restrictions those fwd would be mauled by the 4x4 wrc.
    They don't want to return to the group b days where without restrictions the cars were transforming into low flying jets.
    In the end it is quite simple
    Mitsubishi and subaru both sell 300hp 4x4 cars
    Peugeot give you the great and mighty 206 gti
    with maybe 130hp if you have a lucky engine
    I think they sell u the 206 WRC bodykit though as a option
    It would look pretty silly if peugeot said buy a 206 look at us kicking japenese arse then you buy one and you get nothing but your us kicked even by a 1.4 starlet (Good night)

    Murat

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Maybe so Murat, but I think you've forgotten about the torque. Those inlet restrictors reduce horsepower but the inlet air velocity goes up somewhat stupid and they're left with 500-600NM torque beasts. A 300HP NA will be very peaky and have nowhere near the torque curve of a turbo motor, all through FWD - I don't even know why you're suggesting reducing the weight penalties to see who kicks arse. Obvious really, different classes.

    I mean if you wanted to look at the other end of the stick, and try and work out which car is more superior - go onto a racetrack, where the GTi6 becomes a formidable weapon against the WRXs. They're just a bit faster around Eastern Creek, and, given that, most likely Wakefield park.

    So, this stupid japanese versus everything else argument you have goes nowhere, because everything can be looked at in different ways. And you should expect this in a Peugeot forum mate.

    I'd like to see any NA Impreza, Lancer, Mirage, Starlet keep up with a 10 year old 205 on a twisty circuit.

    I hope you won't threaten me for expressing my opinions this time.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Ntrx,

    What i was talking about was the restrictions in the WRC
    I think i have lost u there
    I was agreeing with izza on how the fwd used the major handicap in the awd turbo WRC cars to eventually be superior in the tarmac rallys
    What i was getting at was that like izza stated if there was no restrictions u would see the WRC weight come down under the 1000kg mark with another 300hp (It would be impossible for a n/a engined car to compete)on any road surface.
    Yes the 306 has it all over the wrx in handling (Never argued that)
    Unless in adverse conditions like wet weather and snow loose road surface and such.
    Awd is a handfull for the inexperienced if you push it pass its limit.
    A fwd has its advantage there
    Anyway i am not a wrx fan anyway (It just a nice car for a price)
    I know what my 205 would do to those cars you mentioned around the track (But those cars you mentioned r only shopping trolleys)
    I hate to wonder how a 205 would go against simular powered 30 year old escort (It would be very competive)
    Anyway all i was trying to say was u cannot win a rally with a 4x4 turbo and advertise a n/a fwd (You could but you would look silly)
    Thats why peugeot aint boring us with mitsi type ads the japs sell hi po 4x4 the evo is one of the great handling cars in the world.

    Murat

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
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    Default

    nope, been there.....

    I used to own a pretty warm 2lt (2.1 by the time i was done with it mk2 (escort) it was doing about 160hp at the flywheel....
    I'd also spent a small fortune getting the thing to handle

    In a straight line, it would fairly comfortably do my (stock) 205gti to about 90 (car length or two)...from there on 205 would probably win...but not by much

    On a smooth racetrack within the escort's sweet spot speedwise....it would be a fun race....to say the least....i think the 205 would probably win....the escort driver would be working really hard

    on a bumpy mountian road?.....not comparison....205 easy

    anything really tight.....205..again

    escorts just can't change direction as quickly....and the leaf spring rear ends let them down

    Mk1 escorts do handle more sweetly and are lighter than mk2s (i've owned a nice 1600 mk1 too)....i don't think it would be enough to make a difference...

    either way it would be a fun race....but the 205 would win most times....stock.....against modified escorts (assuming you have equivelently skilled drivers in each)
    (we won't mention brakes)

    I'm not being argumentative or anything here.....it's just a fun comparison, since i've had some experience with both.

    they're quite similar in some ways....
    big engine, small car.....torquey/punchy low rpm performance.....tight nimble cars
    lottsa fun

    Escorts are great cars, but are from a different generation.....

    hmmmm.....miss my escort now
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    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 04:39 AM.

  17. #17
    Tadpole
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    i have a short but sweet one
    1-2 years 206 gti=
    206 rc 135kw

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Dtwo,

    Yeah i have owned two mark1 escorts one with a 2l and in standard form really not much can touch a 205 or for that matter a 306.
    No body could argue there
    A rs2000 mk2 is a great car even if the build quality is crap it is still solid car.
    You have to remember that a mk1 is 25-30 years old and once a lot of money is spent thay can be very competive against anything.
    In the end the 205 is better as is from the factory but you have to remember the mk1 2l cosworth is the quickest 2l & under class in Australia
    I cant see a fwd car beating that 30 year old car
    But if you r not into motorsport yes i would not argue there is not much that can give you pure pleasure in driving on the track or the road than a peugeot
    And josh i hope peugeot brings out a 206 135kw car it will be great.
    Why wait stick a gti6 motor in now without the big price tag from peugeot.
    Hopefully they will put a lsd in like honda has with the typeR (You really need it in a fwd)

  19. #19
    Tadpole
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    Its not something im hoping it will be out before the end of next year

  20. #20
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    [quote]Originally posted by Murat:
    <strong>
    It would look pretty silly if peugeot said buy a 206 look at us kicking japenese arse then you buy one and you get nothing but your us kicked even by a 1.4 starlet (Good night)
    </strong><hr></blockquote>

    Having driven a 1.4 Starlet, I can't see how a 206GTi with a supposed 194Nm would ever get beaten by one. My sister's 97 1.6 litre Honda Civic CXi with only 144Nm (and it weighs 1050kg-the same as a 206GTi) would eat a Starlet for breakfast (pity it doesn't have the handling to match, -nothing good tyres and VTiR swaybars wouldn't fix).

    The 1.4 Starlet would beat the 8 valve 1.6 litre 206 though, so maybe that's what you ment, or maybe it was just a figure of speach?

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
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  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hello Dave,

    I would of thought people would know what i was trying to point out (Anyway here goes)
    Starlet gt turbo
    1331cc
    100kw@6400rpm
    157nm@4800rpm
    0-100kph 7.01sec
    400m 15.27sec
    weight 830kg
    I have been beaten by one while driving a 200kw vt clubsport
    nothing peugeot manufactures can touch one including the overseas stripped down rally gti6
    maybe a integra typeR can give it a run if the owner has not turned the boost up
    I just used it as an example (I dont own or want one)
    Josh good luck if you buy one mate i personally don't buy new cars so i have no interest in whats coming out (Don't see the value as it still wont be as good as my 205 in what i do with my car)
    But hey it sounds great and about time

    Murat

  22. #22
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Murat,

    Sorry, I misunderstood you. It sounded like you were talking about the NA garden variety version of the Starlet.

    The turbo is in another league.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
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    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

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