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  1. #1
    XTC
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    30 years too late.

    It's like these guy never heard of the Citroen D series. Someone should write to the guy (he's probably under 30) whip

    From the paper on the weekend.


    BEING able to see around corners is now a reality with a sophisticated now Active Light System that will be available on certain Mercedes-Benz models.

    The system, which is based on the bi-xenon headlamps used in the Mercedes-Benz E-Class, enables the lights to follow the direction in which the driver is steering, swivelling as the car enters a bend.

    Mercedes claims it will greatly enhance road safety and the driver's range of vision when cornering at night by improving road illumination by up to 90 per cent. It can also extend the range of the light by up to 30m.

    The matching of light distribution to steering angle means that the driver gets an early view into the bend and can adapt accordingly.

    But the system does not come cheap, adding $1440 to the price of a Mercedes-Benz E-Class Classic or Elegance already equipped with the optional bi-xenon headlights with a cleaning system and dynamic adjustment.

    The system operates in both low a high-beam and continuously adapts the speed of the vehicle, moving almost instantly when it is travelling high speed but less swiftly when the car is moving slower.

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    The Active Light System is control by a microprocessor integrated in the car's electronic data network which continuously receives information from the steering and road speed sensors while in transit.

    STEVE LAG
    Does it self level as well (I guess it has to, as they are xenon lights)

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  2. #2
    nJm
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    There was a thing in The Age about that on Thursday I think, but they did credit to Citroen having had that over 50 years ago.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  3. #3
    XTC
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    nJm:
    There was a thing in The Age about that on Thursday I think, but they did credit to Citroen having had that over 50 years ago.
    There was no mention of Citroen in this article ... probably doesn't even know.

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
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    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  4. #4
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    Although, the versions now (there's one on the new Vectra variant - the Signum - too) widens the beam as it turns, then lengthens the beam as you go faster or remain relatively straight for a certain period. Most articles I've read credit the Cit, though.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Hi fellow Froggers!

    I know some Citroens (DS?) have headlights that swivel in response to the movement of the front wheels, how is this achieved? Is it by a direct link to the steering assembly? I couldn't imagine it would be via a microprocessor as in the Merc. Also, how is the ride height adjusted? I've seen Cits that drop when the car is stopped and the ignition turned off. French engineering, amazing stuff.

    From an ignorant Pug owner!

    Ralph.
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  6. #6
    UFO
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    Ralph:
    Hi fellow Froggers!

    I know some Citroens (DS?) have headlights that swivel in response to the movement of the front wheels, how is this achieved? Is it by a direct link to the steering assembly? I couldn't imagine it would be via a microprocessor as in the Merc. Also, how is the ride height adjusted? I've seen Cits that drop when the car is stopped and the ignition turned off. French engineering, amazing stuff.

    From an ignorant Pug owner!

    Ralph.
    There are cables that are attached to steering arms. The only lights that turn are the inner spots that only work in addition to hi beam. They have eccentric turns so that the one on the side you are turning to, turns more and therefore lights that side of the turn more.

    The self level works by cables connected to front and rear sway bars that keep things, well, level through dips and bumps when the damper is working properly.

    Ride height is adjusted by a lever inside the car attached to the height corrector valves (cut me some slack Shane, I am keeping this short).

    Hydraulic Cits will drop after stopping engine as the pump is not being turned by the engine therefore pressure releases back to the resevoir. Find a Cit Nut and get them to explain.

    citroen_
    Craig K
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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Craig,

    Thanks for the reply. I've since done some research on the 'net re Cits and was impressed.
    Here's some of what I've found:

    <a href="http://home.zonnet.nl/citroens/modelcar1.htm" target="_blank">Citroen DS Specialists</a>
    <a href="http://home.zonnet.nl/citroens/modelcar1.htm" target="_blank">The History of Citroens in Miniature</a>
    <a href="http://aroundcny.com/technofile/texts/cit85.html" target="_blank">Citroen: The Car that Time Forgot</a>

    There's heaps more.
    The fact that the headlights turn at a differernt rate to the front wheels (URL 3) must? involve a cam like setup that has an increasing radius. How the self levelling of the headlights work I'm not too sure. I've used gyroscopically dampened binoculars that the Army has and they were awesome! I don't think the Cit would make use of this technology!
    I'm assuming you are using the term "damper" to refer to the hydraulic (and gas) dampers found on most cars? I beleive this is the correct name for these things. I cringe when I hear the word shock absorbers (especially when used by companies like Pedders who should know better, I suppose it's aimed at a certain market) as I reckon this is a misnomer. The springs do the absorption of shock whilst the dampers dampen the oscillation of the springs!
    The Cit DS must have a lot of cables controlling these various features incorporated. Do you buy graphite in large quantities?

    Cheers,

    Matt.

    <small>[ 10 August 2003, 11:23 PM: Message edited by: Ralph ]</small>
    On the internet, no one knows that you are only wearing a fez.

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    Sorry, I can't agree, the springs STORE the shock then the shock absorbers absorb it by converting it into heat. Shock absorber is the correct term.

    Graham Wallis

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    Damper is OK too. The shock absorber/damper is analogous to the filtering capacitors in an electronic power supply so you could call the spring-shock absorber combination a filter. Who really cares?

  10. #10
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    Sorry, I can't agree, the springs STORE the shock then the shock absorbers absorb it by converting it into heat. Shock absorber is the correct term.
    Time to get pedantic again...

    'Shock' is really a strange expression to use for suspension movements, but nevertheless, the spring takes the shock, moves with the road.

    The damper has the job of controlling the spring once it's done that job.

    So they are dampers. Either German or Dutch terms them 'Stossdampfers' or something like that.

    Now... about the turning lights...

    Citroen DS models didn't have these 50 years ago. They were a later innovation, I would estimate about 1967 or so.

    Still a very long time before M-B did it, but not 50 years.

    And the rally drivers of the time disconnected the linkages... they just wanted them pointed straight ahead!

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
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    Friday's Drive in the SMH mentioned this - they also had a bit about the turning headlights on the DS being disconnected for NSW - I have never heard this before.

    Does anyone know anything about it?

    I suspect it just adds to the litany of errors they produce.

    Paul
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  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I can assure you that I have seen DSs registered in NSW with spotlights swivelling as they turned corners.

  13. #13
    nJm
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    Maybe they were getting mixed up with 505's having their hydraulic headlight adjusters disconnected from new.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    Citroens do not have conventional dampers/shock absorbers (is this going to please everyone or annoy them all question ). It is done by the "spheres".
    As for the swivelling lights, SMs had them as well as DSs, but the first car to use the technology was the 1948 Tucker Torpedo. This had a swivelling light in the centre. The original idea was to have the mudguards turning with the wheels, but they scrapped that idea.
    Rolls Royce used a licenced version of the Citroen system, as did Mercedes for a while. They thought that the car sinking to the ground was "undignified" so they incorporated an anti-sink valve.
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  15. #15
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Pugnut403:
    Citroens do not have conventional dampers/shock absorbers (is this going to please everyone or annoy them all question ). It is done by the "spheres".
    As for the swivelling lights, SMs had them as well as DSs, but the first car to use the technology was the 1948 Tucker Torpedo. This had a swivelling light in the centre. The original idea was to have the mudguards turning with the wheels, but they scrapped that idea.
    Rolls Royce used a licenced version of the Citroen system, as did Mercedes for a while. They thought that the car sinking to the ground was "undignified" so they incorporated an anti-sink valve.
    Pugnut403,

    Have a look at this earlier AF thread, I think we established the 1930 Duesenberg as first car with swivelling lights, earliest evidence I could find though is a 1926 patent taken out by a Tasmanian it would seem this one never saw the light (pun intended). whip

    <a href="http://www.aussiefrogs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000295" target="_blank">http://www.aussiefrogs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000295</a>

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  16. #16
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    As for the swivelling lights, SMs had them as well as DSs, but the first car to use the technology was the 1948 Tucker Torpedo. This had a swivelling light in the centre.
    The Duesenberg Model J, built from 1929 to 1940, had driving lights that turned with the steering.

    John
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  17. #17
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    Dang! One minute too late!
    John W

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    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
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  18. #18
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    Ray Bell:
    And the rally drivers of the time disconnected the linkages... they just wanted them pointed straight ahead!
    I could understand that.

    You wouldn't want the lights to turn away as you added opposite lock

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    peujohn:
    Dang! One minute too late!
    dance snail dance

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  20. #20
    UFO
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    Pug307:
    Ray Bell:
    And the rally drivers of the time disconnected the linkages... they just wanted them pointed straight ahead!
    I could understand that.

    You wouldn't want the lights to turn away as you added opposite lock
    Give Pug307 10 points!
    Craig K
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  21. #21
    UFO
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    Paul Smith:
    Friday's Drive in the SMH mentioned this - they also had a bit about the turning headlights on the DS being disconnected for NSW - I have never heard this before.

    Does anyone know anything about it?

    I suspect it just adds to the litany of errors they produce.

    Paul
    Paul

    Have no fear, the Prez is here!

    Text of an email I sent to SMH yesterday to correct their errant ways:

    In the article "Unnatural Selection" of 11 August by Tony Davis, reference was made to the turning headlights of the Citroën SM and DS. It was stated that these turning lights were disconnected for cars registered in NSW.

    This is certainly a surprise to the many DS and SM owning members of the Citroën Car Club of NSW. All cars that were fitted with turning headlights have been that way since bought new.

    There may be some confusion in that:
    a/ Not all post 1966 DS models actually had the mechanism installed for the turning lights
    b/ Only the inner "driving" lights turn with the steering when the mechanism is installed.

    In the club we find it amusing that BMW is advertising their new headlight system. However we do acknowledge that due to the advances in technology, the BMW system is far more adaptable than the system designed and installed in the 1960s and onwards.

    It is also noteworthy that Citroën were not the first to do turning lights. Systems have been around since the 1930s on all manner of vehicles from Europe and USA.

    Overall a good article though. It's interesting to recall some of those features.

    Craig Keller
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    Citroën Car Club of NSW
    deal dance citroen_
    Craig K
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  22. #22
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    UFO:
    Pug307:
    Ray Bell:
    And the rally drivers of the time disconnected the linkages... they just wanted them pointed straight ahead!
    I could understand that.

    You wouldn't want the lights to turn away as you added opposite lock
    Give Pug307 10 points!
    Well, you know, we 307 owners don't quite understand oversteer as well as some other Pug drivers wink

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  23. #23
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Actually, the purpose of hauling on opposite lock is to point the wheels in the direction you're wanting to travel. Hence the lights would be pointed where you want to go!

    I think there may have been some delay in the system or some other reason the rally drivers got them disconnected...

    307 drivers may now go for advanced driving theory classes!

  24. #24
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:
    Actually, the purpose of hauling on opposite lock is to point the wheels in the direction you're wanting to travel. Hence the lights would be pointed where you want to go!

    I think there may have been some delay in the system or some other reason the rally drivers got them disconnected...

    307 drivers may now go for advanced driving theory classes!
    Quite right Ray with the tail out, opposite lock will still have your wheels in the direction you intend travelling, there is no delay with the lights moving, there is a direct conection to steering movement. I think it is more likely that the lights would be fixed for rally driving to ensure non-failure of the swivelling set-up, if the cable conecting the two driving lights came adrift you would have one light at nearly 90 degrees. Same with the levelling set-up on the low beam lights, I have set mine to a fixed position to stop them jiggling up and down on rough roads.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  25. #25
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    Mind you, with the 'Scandinavian flick' being employed, the old seesaw lighting effect would be interesting!


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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