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Thread: Camry & Avalon

  1. #1
    sjl
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    Camry & Avalon

    Can anyone tell me exactly why Toyota decided to introduce the Avalon to the Australian Market? Or anywhere for that matter?

    When you consider that the Camry (although as bland as a potato) has sold very well, why would Toyota launch a car of the same size (and like the camry, boring as [email protected])in a market which is already inundated with large family cars?

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    If they were aiming at a market with a higher socio-economic status then they needn't have bothered considering the vienta doesn't do that bad. And then there is their other brand Lexus which will forever hold a high regard in the automotive world even though the majority of people know they are just Toyotas with make up on.

    Compare this with other companies who dominate the large family car market like Ford, Holden and Mitsubishi. Did Toyota really expect that having an extra model would give them that much of an advantage?

    I don't actually know the difference in prices between the Camry and Avalon but I assume they are around the same price.

    If anyone can shed some light on this subject it would put my mind at ease.

    Cheers,

    Simo
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  2. #2
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Must we talk about Whitegoods? Is this relevant to French cars?
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    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    The Avalon is a mid-1990s Camry with a stretched wheelbase, so it is a bigger car than the Camry, particularly in rear leg room, but the difference in size has probably erroded as Toyota has released 2 subsequent models of Camry, the newest of which is nearly as large as the Avalon and probably has more luggage space.

    The avlaon was orignally designed for the American market and the assembly equippment was shipped to Austrlia when the US got a new model of the Avalon.

    As Lincoln said, they're whitegoods on wheels, but if you just want reliability and the largest new car for less than $30,000 and you don't care about driving enjoyment, then the Avalon makes alot of sense.

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  4. #4
    Member LOCAM's Avatar
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    My (work-supplied) car is a Camry. It is definitely boring as batpoo. Even the V6 version. But it has to be said that it does a fantastic job where the lease companies count their pennies: cost and reliability.

    The Avalon is a disaster. Equally boring. Equally reliable. Even more ugly.

    I know it is heresy to suggest it here, but unfortunately the Frenchies still have some distance to travel in overcoming (perhaps undeserved) reputations for other than cost and reliability.

    Shame, my Pugs and Cits have always been much better fun to drive ...

  5. #5
    sjl
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    The avlaon was orignally designed for the American market and the assembly equippment was shipped to Austrlia when the US got a new model of the Avalon.
    I got the impression that the camry was the second highest selling car in the USA behind the Accord. Did the Avalon sell that well to keep it running in the states?
    "How do you like them apples?"
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    They sold around 4,000 Avalons in June 2003 in the US , compared to 34,000 Camrys. - <a href="http://www.new-cars.com/files/new-car-sales-toyota.html" target="_blank">http://www.new-cars.com/files/new-car-sales-toyota.html</a>

    The Camry was the second best seller in that month. Beaten by the Chev Cavallier. Just pipped the Honda Accord.

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 08 August 2003, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  7. #7
    sjl
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    Rod, you're just a wealth of information aren't you?
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  8. #8
    sjl
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    Upon review of that website, in my mind the Americans have overtaken everyone on the ladder of ugliest ever cars. Have a look at the Taurus, Buick and Impala. Butt-ugly. moon

    There is one exception though: The Ford F-150. That thing is an absolute beast and actually looks good. Much prefer to drive one of those than a Landcruiser or Prado.
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    sjl:
    Upon review of that website, in my mind the Americans have overtaken everyone on the ladder of ugliest ever cars. Have a look at the Taurus, Buick and Impala. Butt-ugly. moon

    There is one exception though: The Ford F-150. That thing is an absolute beast and actually looks good. Much prefer to drive one of those than a Landcruiser or Prado.
    What's this "overtaken"? The Yanks have produced the ugliest cars in the world for the last 50 years in my book!

    As for the F series Fords, don't know what the current ones are like but a mate of mine had an F250 4x4 back in the late 70's, which I occasionally drove.

    He loved it. I hated it. Wallowing great whale of a thing that you were lucky if you could aim within 2 feet of where you wanted it to go, a matching front bench seat that you invariably slid off the side of, brakes that made an EH Holden's look good. etc etc etc. Plenty of power, but nothing like as stable on the road , or effective off road, as a Toyota Landcruiser.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  10. #10
    sjl
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    <a href="http://www.new-cars.com/2003/2003-ford-f150.html" target="_blank">http://www.new-cars.com/2003/2003-ford-f150.html</a>

    Ever since Kia commenced production I had them in my mind as 'dog of the automotive world'.

    However to give credit where it is due, they have made some of the greatest looking cars an the flamboyant over the top with extra cheese way the Americans are renowned for. Look at those old Chevys. So much chrome on those you can't stair straight at them without causing permanent eye damage.
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    sjl:
    <a href="http://www.new-cars.com/2003/2003-ford-f150.html" target="_blank">http://www.new-cars.com/2003/2003-ford-f150.html</a>

    Ever since Kia commenced production I had them in my mind as 'dog of the automotive world'.

    However to give credit where it is due, they have made some of the greatest looking cars an the flamboyant over the top with extra cheese way the Americans are renowned for. Look at those old Chevys. So much chrome on those you can't stair straight at them without causing permanent eye damage.
    I know its "politically incorrect" to dis US cars of the 50's these days (especially now little Johnny is doing his best to take us back to that time and convert us into the 50 somethingth state) , but I hated those chromed monstrosities even when I was a kid (and they were brand new).

    Cheers

    Rod
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  12. #12
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    My understanding is that the Avalon was meant to be Toyota's answer to Falcon and Commodore. It's been an absolute flop. Some say it's due to FWD, I suspect most people don't even know whether their car is RWD or FWD. Not everyone is a car enthusiast.

    I can't really think of anything the Avalon does better than the Camry. The new Camry is superior in almost every way. The only good thing about the Avalon is that it's good value for the money.

    The current Camry is pretty good for what it's meant to be. Cabin room is excellent, boot space simply huge - you really have to ask, why bother with the Avalon. The Camry is very quiet too - I don't know any 4 cylinder engine that makes less noise than the 2.4 VVTi in the Camry - the ventilation fan made more noise, whilst the engine was at idle!!! The car is well built, better IMHO than the Avalon, as a function of its newer design (there are parts of the Avalon that really aren't that impressive - feel quite utilitarian). I think it's proof that Australians can screw a car together damn well.

    Although Camrys aren't the most dynamically inspiring machines, the latest one really isn't that bad. You can tell the engineers have tried to get a more European feel in the car. Toyotas are improving in driveability - just compare the current Corolla with the previous one. It really is quite a bit better.

    The Camry's a nice family car - but not for me.

    Cheers,

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  13. #13
    XTC
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    Pug307:
    My understanding is that the Avalon was meant to be Toyota's answer to Falcon and Commodore. It's been an absolute flop. Some say it's due to FWD.
    I'd say it was also influenced by the tacky advertising and launch campaign ... who would buy a car from <a href="http://www.dame-edna.com" target="_blank">Dame Edna Average (Everage)</a> .. Possums ?

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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    As said it was to compete or try to with the Commodore and Falcon. However, the only ones sold were when they were selling for next to nothing with alloys, etc etc.

    To be fair they are a much better car still than the Commodore VT-VX/Falcon AU

    I guess we are spoilt compared to the some of the local, Korean and Japanese cars out there that are simply uninspiring, dull, lifeless piece of ......

  15. #15
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    [quote]Rod Hagen:
    Originally posted by sjl:
    [qb]As for the F series Fords, don't know what the current ones are like but a mate of mine had an F250 4x4 back in the late 70's, which I occasionally drove.

    Rod
    I'd been trying hard to forget my F250 experiences in the 1970s working for the SA government! This note brought them flooding back. Imagine one of those monsters towing a large caravan with a swivel bogy front axle! Awful. Just awful!! Actually it was worse than that. Aaarghh.

    JohnW
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Sorry John. I know exactly how you feel. I'm sorry to have re-awakened the nightmares. There are therapists out there specialising in this condition I understand though.

    wink

    Cheers

    Rod
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    sjl:
    However to give credit where it is due, they have made some of the greatest looking cars an the flamboyant over the top with extra cheese way the Americans are renowned for. Look at those old Chevys. So much chrome on those you can't stair straight at them without causing permanent eye damage.
    Someone who sees things my way! Here's my dad's first car, a 58 Chev Biscayne.

    Prepare for some permanent eye damage...

    <img src="http://home.iprimus.com.au/rangy/pics/chevbisc2.jpg" alt=" - " />

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    That is absolutely scary eek!

    The Camry is dead boring and the Avalon is the last car you own before you die, as some journo quipped when this insipid hand-me-down came from the US.

    Toyota actually has some decent RWD sedans (newer generations of the Cressida basically) that are for the most part only sold in Japan, although some grey imports are coming to OZ and NZ.

    Still, Toyota is bloody hopeless with most of its' cars. They bring out the first FWD Celica in 1985 which looed and drove great then they stuffed it up.

    That new Corola with the alledged 140 kw motor has been panned in the press. But people still keep buying 'em

    <small>[ 09 August 2003, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: B E R E T ]</small>

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Richard wrote:

    Prepare for some permanent eye damage...
    Ah, Richard, with a father who owned one of those chunder inducing monstrosities how did you ever manage to end up sane enough to be such a cluey 505 owner!

    That's the final death knell for genetic determinism I reckon! Mind you, I was already convinced of this when my father bought his first Sigma.

    wink

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 10 August 2003, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  20. #20
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    When Toyota's are judged in terms of performance of intended function, they come out pretty well.

    A quick glance at their financial statements will tell you that many people are happy with their Toyota's.

    The Avalon was launched in the states in 1993, so it was foolish of Toyota OZ to think they could sell it to us here.
    Tim

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  21. #21
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Rod Hagen:
    Sorry John. I know exactly how you feel. I'm sorry to have re-awakened the nightmares. There are therapists out there specialising in this condition I understand though.

    wink

    Cheers

    Rod
    Rod,

    I use the Xantia and the 306 for my self-therapy. By and large they work quite well!!

    I had a ride in a Trojan bubble car on Saturday, which is perhaps as far from an F250 as is possible.

    I have driven one of the Avalons too - hire car out of Kalgoorlie. It was so boring I can barely remember it. But it had the usual Toyota virtue and didn't stop. Mind you, our R8 hasn't failed to get home under its own power since 1973, so no-one should think only the ricers can do this.

    Cheers

    John
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Rod Hagen:
    Ah, Richard, with a father who owned one of those chunder inducing monstrosities how did you ever manage to end up sane enough to be such a cluey 505 owner!
    LOL! roll_lau

    Well actually, it was because I knew I couldn't afford the fuel and maintenance on them... Before buying the Pug I actually checked out a couple of 1970s Chevs and a Pontiac and even had a deposit ready in one instance... eek! eek!

    Fortunately common sense prevailed and the thought of filling the tank almost every day and squeezing into parking spots at uni turned me off.

    The Pug and this forum have certainly opened my eyes to more worthwhile attributes in a car rather than engine size and chrome, and my "bigger is better" mentality has been slightly curbed.

    Having said that, one day I would like to own a nice big Buick...

    eek! whip mallet

    Richard
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Having said that, one day I would like to own a nice big Buick..
    Ah, now as long as we are talking a nice old Buick Straight 8 I can understand! Something like a 1934 Victoria Coupť or that one with the pretty nose design from 1939 I could live with!

    Its the US cars from the 50's onwards that cause me pain.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    Hmmm... Unfortunately I don't really know about these, I was referring to a 1975 Buick Electra. eek! mallet

    Although a 1949 Buick Super convertible would also be OK , straight 8 engine and something else that amazed me, hydraulically operated windows!

    Richard
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    Earlier: 505 GTi Executive '85
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  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! billtran's Avatar
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    I drove the new Camry Sportivo today. It's not too bad either.

    The handling and ride is decent (although I didn't drive it for too long) and is light years ahead of the average Commode or Foulcan. The body roll is kept pretty well under control. Other than the body kit, I think the main difference between the standard car and the Sportivo is the addition of a strut brace and a more sporting setup of the suspension settings. The interior build quality and choice of materials is much better than the previous Camry and almost matches a VW. Unfortunately, the Sportivo body kit is simply awful.

    While I wouldn't call it a fun car, you can enjoy a spirited drive in the Camry Sportivo. It's light years ahead of the Avalon and previous Camry.
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