The good oil..
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Thread: The good oil..

  1. #1
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    The good oil..

    As my car is coming up to its next service, and they will be changing the oil what oil should I try using?
    I know elf is extremely good oil, what about total if I can find it?
    The C3 is supposed to have castrol in it but after talking to a mechanic they said they wouldnt put it into lawnmowers.
    Which one should i get for my auto C3? cheers!

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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    either mobil or shell full synth is what i would put in the car
    i just changed my oil the other day and put mobil synth 10/40 in it
    i hope you realise that this is going to be another looooooooooong thread
    there are certain things that seem to bring out everyones opinion
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  3. #3
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I know I was thinking of some synthetic agip oil..
    sw50 of course

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Mobil 1.

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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I agree with pugrambo, by the time this thread finishes you will end up with too many opinions that you will be confused further...

    What does your manual recommend?
    Personally I prefer Mobil-1 the best, and a lot of people in other forums swear by that as well. Currently I'm using Shell Helix Ultimate, only because I felt that Mobil-1 5W-50 is too heavy, 0W-40 too light, and Shell is 5W-40 which is just right.

    However next time I might try 5W-30 (ELF or Castrol Synth R), which is the weight mentioned in the manual, but some say that it's for European climate (coooold), not for Aussie weather.

    I'll be following this thread to see...

    Ps. some people reckon you shouldn't use full synth before 10,000km, how many k's have you travelled?

    [Edit: typo]

    <small>[ 12 September 2003, 11:05 PM: Message edited by: rc968 ]</small>

  6. #6
    2000+ Brad's Avatar
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    Then there is the other argument, full synthetic is only good if you don't plan on changing your oil every 10,000kms. Look at the adds, they compare oil 100,000kms old. Who leaves it in this long? IMHO semi sythetic has the best of both worlds. Good hot and cold viscosity, retains its structure and is affordable.

    I have Semi in now, and can not tell the difference to Mobil 1. After 10,000kms I am sure the oil will still be protecting my engine.
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  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    I run semi synthetic 15-50 in my cars. I think fully synthetic is ludicrously price. I'd rather change the oil twice as often for the same $$$. The oil may keeps it's integrity for longer with synthetic, but it'll still get loaded with moisture, acids and all sorts of sh!+ that are byproducts of combustion. It can't be good to let your oil get loaded with that crap by letting it stay in your motor long enough to get your 'value' from Mobil 1. For the same cost of a Mobil 1 oil change every 12,000kms. I could change my oil every 6000kms. Not really a bad idea with the turbo cookin the hell outa the oil.

    The BX gets 15-50 semi synthetic as well. The older cars (N/A CX's and D's) get Caltex GTX2, they have run without problem on it for the last 30years, so why suddenly change?? As a bonus you can buy it on special rarely for about $12 for 5litres.

    seeya,
    Shane L.

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  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
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    Brad:
    Then there is the other argument, full synthetic is only good if you don't plan on changing your oil every 10,000kms. Look at the adds, they compare oil 100,000kms old. Who leaves it in this long? IMHO semi sythetic has the best of both worlds. Good hot and cold viscosity, retains its structure and is affordable.

    I have Semi in now, and can not tell the difference to Mobil 1. After 10,000kms I am sure the oil will still be protecting my engine.
    I agree. I use Mobil Synth S. A semi-synthetic blend is the way to go unless you run an M3, Maserati or Ferrari
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  9. #9
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Daniel,

    As a new car, I would simply use whatever is recommended by the manufacturer....end of story.
    Engine oils are developing at a fairly fast rate at present as are the additives and other strange things they're putting in them and engine designs are changing just as fast.
    I know a guy who had a new car that was serviced by a dealer he was "sus" about and after it's fist service started burning oil like crazy and doing erratic things. It was taken to another service centre for 'evaluation' whereupon the oil was changed and all particulars taken and filler caps sealed etc. The car has run fine since & never burnt oil either. So obviously, someone put in something other than the manufacturers recommendation. As a result, it was stated that his warranty was "under review" but as it was a recognised dealer who did the job, that one went by the board. cry spanner
    The thing is that there is no yardstick on any car as to what something not tried & tested by the maker will perform like. A BX will change gears fairly well yet when fully synthetic gear oil is used in the transmission, they reckon they perform like a truck with a dodgy clutch & a crash gearbox, yet later PSA cars recommend its use. I've heard it said that Magnatec will cause some motors to get rattly noisy and that Mobil 1 with a lower rating will quieten the rattles and so on.
    With a car still under warranty, I wouldn't be game enough to vary from Cits recommendation, that way, if anything goes mechanically wrong, you're giving them a nice easy out. deal

    Alan S 2_cents
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! frogs4ever's Avatar
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    Alan S:
    Daniel,

    As a new car, I would simply use whatever is recommended by the manufacturer....end of story.

    Alan S 2_cents
    I wholeheartedly agree. No motor enthusiast's guess, opinion, or bias, no matter how deeply held, can substitute for the millions of kilometres of dyno testing, road testing, scientific analysis, state of the art testing equipment, and billions of dollars of R&D spending, that is utilized by great car makers like Renault and Peugeot/Citroen to figure out, amongst other things, what type of oil is best for their engines.

    And I would be more inclined to trust the European owner's handbooks than Australian importer's versions. In the south-east of Australia, which is where the vast majority of the population lives, the climate is quite similar to Southern Europe. Sure, we have a hot, dry centre, but hardly anyone live there, and how often does anyone on AussieFrogs drive from Darwin to Adelaide via the red centre?
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  11. #11
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    frogs4ever:
    Sure, we have a hot, dry centre, but hardly anyone live there, and how often does anyone on AussieFrogs drive from Darwin to Adelaide via the red centre?
    Oh oh... you shouldn't have suggested it to me.
    Where is our Aussiefrogs NT Contingent I wonder?

    Derek

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    DeKa:
    frogs4ever:
    Sure, we have a hot, dry centre, but hardly anyone live there, and how often does anyone on AussieFrogs drive from Darwin to Adelaide via the red centre?
    Oh oh... you shouldn't have suggested it to me.
    Where is our Aussiefrogs NT Contingent I wonder?

    Derek
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    I've been told that Penrite synthetic is the way to go for a 403. Is it OK to do that?
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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I used to run synthetic in an old ford V8 engine and it used to burn lots of oil, i suspect a combination of some wear and large clearances compared to modern engines.

    I wonder if other older engines, such as 403's etc would be the same

  15. #15
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    i know synthetic oils in things like dolomite sprint engines actually blow out oil seals but are fine on a good mineral oil
    it's all to do with clearances and fthe finer oil galleries in modern engines over the older engines
    if i were to run another 403 engine i would run a good mineral oil in it but run synth or even semi synth in 504,604 engines and anything newer
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  16. #16
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    Just wondering, how often do people need to top up oil in their cars between oil changes?
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  17. #17
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    if my oil is down and it is around the 7000km mark since last change i change the oil
    it is never down though so i change it about then anyway
    i never add new oil to old oil unless there is a major leak in the car somewhere which in that case i'd fix the leak
    if a car is using oil then more regular oil changes slows down the usage of oil
    so really i don't top up my oil and never have done in any of my cars
    i just change the oil
    oil is cheap
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    frogs4ever:

    And I would be more inclined to trust the European owner's handbooks than Australian importer's versions.
    I tend to trust the Euro handbooks more as well, as we agree that in general climate isn't all that different. The official suggested oil weights should be what's best for the car.
    See below from another thread.

    frogs4ever:

    For modern engines with tight manufacturing tollerances, using oils that are too thick will restrict oil flow, increase friction, reduce cleaning action, and possibly lead to buildup of gunk in low-flow areas. The restricted flow also has detrimental consequences with regards to the lubrication and cooling of various items. Also, a thicker oil will take longer to reach the top of the motor when starting, and will be too thick during the critical warmup phase - which is when most engine wear takes place. If you are doing mostly short trips, I would be even more inclined to err on the side of thin rather than thick.
    This brings up the following issue:

    Renault Australia recommends "only" Renault branded oil which is 15W-50 when I called them, and that's what the dealer uses.

    This by itself is going against what Alan.S mentioned:
    "As a new car, I would simply use whatever is recommended by the manufacturer....end of story."
    I mean 15W-50 is a lot heavier then 5-30, isn't it?

    So what would be best to about it?

  19. #19
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    That shoots holes in it hey?? mallet mallet

    I personally will always go by the manufacturers recommendations which should give oil specs as well as weightings.
    Taking the car to the dealer, if he is using a different grade oil to that recommended, then is it a modification as specified by the manufacturer? If so, go with it. If not, then I suppose the only recourse you have is that if the motor stuffs up under warranty, you could have a comeback at the servicing dealer.
    Personally, I would reckon the reasoning behind the heavier grading would be to keep the rattles to a minimum. eek!
    The BX16V series one that we have just done a motor rebuild on is now running 0W-40 after doing 500 miles on Running in (SAE30 oil) and it sounds like a sewing machine at idle, something I would imagine a dealer would prefer to not to have to explain to a customer. cry deal
    The concensus is as has been stated, with multi valve engines, the thinner oil tends to get into the nooks & crannies much quicker than the thicker but it's a question I would be asking if I was a new car owner.

    Alan S cheers!
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  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Oops...sorry Alan...
    Didn't mean to have the slightest objection to what you said earlier.

    I totally agree with what you said in the earlier post, as well as the above post.

    What I meant was that I agree with you and I think what the dealer/Reno-Aus are doing seems to contradict with the official handbook.

    But if Reno-Aus recommend the heavier oil they must have their reasons, but then again it might just to quieten down the engine or reduce oil-burn, and I think that it may shorten engine life in the long term(?) By then the warranty would be long over...

    Hmm.. Who should be trusted? Reno-France or Reno-Aus...

    Oh No...information overload... question dead too many different thoughts and opinions... cry

  21. #21
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Well I just think its weird. In Europe/France they use total in citroens and here they use castrol?? eek!

  22. #22
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    rc968:
    Oops...sorry Alan...
    Didn't mean to have the slightest objection to what you said earlier.

    I totally agree with what you said in the earlier post, as well as the above post.

    What I meant was that I agree with you and I think what the dealer/Reno-Aus are doing seems to contradict with the official handbook.

    But if Reno-Aus recommend the heavier oil they must have their reasons, but then again it might just to quieten down the engine or reduce oil-burn, and I think that it may shorten engine life in the long term(?) By then the warranty would be long over...

    Hmm.. Who should be trusted? Reno-France or Reno-Aus...

    Oh No...information overload... question dead too many different thoughts and opinions... cry
    We must be on different wave lengths mate; I agree with you totally, what I'm saying is, if in doubt get it confirmed.
    The bit I really get worried about is this different grade oil "to suit Australian conditions" myth that some use. They give the impression that the temperatures in the rest of the World are somehow different to Australia and hence go on with this business of playing with oil specs. In reality, 30 deg is the same in London, Sydney, Darwin or Paris and a car doing 100 kph up the Pacific Highway is no different to one doing the same on the M-1 nor is the gridlock in Sydney any less frustrating than the one in London, yet you can bet pounds to peanuts, the Aussie car will be running a heavier oil than the UK or French one to "allow for our conditions." whistle
    The end result can often be a long term problem which I reckon is caused through this unproven theory. A typical case being like one of my sons BX which had 90K klms on the speedo when we bought it, had a service record of using Penrite which was way above the factory spec, 20W-50 from memory, a spec suitable for an FJ Holden and commonly used by Citroen mechanics, and as a result burnt oil at the rate of about 2 litres per 1000 klms due to what we believe to be bore glazing. This I understand is a common problem in Australia but almost unheard of overseas. They have problems with leaky valve stem seals on the same motors possibly caused by going too far between oil changes & running contaminated oil, yet the bottom end of their motors commonly go over 300 - 400,000 klms.
    If it were me with a new car, I would ask the question of Reno-France. After all, that is where the engineers & designers are. I'd be interested to hear their response. deal dance
    Daniel, the "Brand" of the oil is not as important as the "grade" and other aspects of the specification.
    Check this for a bit of education on oils.
    <a href="http://www.chris-longhurst.com/carbibles/index.html?menu.html&engineoil_bible.html" target="_blank">Engine oils</a>

    Alan S cheers!
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  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Well as for the question "How often do we top our cars up".

    Well I have quite a few tired old bombs around the yard, so let see:

    -'63 ID19 Doesn't use a drip, never gets topped up
    -'78 CX2400 pallas --Doesn't use a drip, never gets topped up
    -'78 GS1220, Leaks a bit from the rocker gasket seals, maybe one top up between oil changes.
    -'85 CX GTi Turbo --Doesn't use a drip
    -'88 BX19tri, doesn't appear to burn any, but can leak a little from the breather hoses (which need replacing). Sometimes it'll need to be topped up depending on how much it leaks (which depend on the alignment of the planets --or so it appears).

    The other cars I haven't used for any length of time, so I can't comment on.

    Oil Changes:

    GS1220 -- Every 6000kms would be best, semi-synthetic 15-50 (remember it's oil cooled, so the oil gets a hard life)

    CX2400 and ID19 Castrol GTX2 20/50. These cars weren't designed with really thin oil in mind !! Changed about every 8,000km's

    CX GTi Turbo-- 15-50 semi synthetic. Changed every 6000kms (turbo cooks hell out of the oil).

    BX19tri -- 15/50 semi synthetic. Changed about every 8-10,000kms.

    Any help??? In my 11years of motoring I've never killed or worn out a motor .... EVER .... I've also never worn out a clutch. I have however done countless oil changes.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  24. #24
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    I was just about to same thing Alan! The brand is fairly irrelevant when recommended by the manufacturer. Citroen just happen to have an agreement with TOTAL in France. TOTAL isn't a big brand here, so depending on the service garage they'll use what brand they want. So Castrol looks to be what they use at Continental Cars there.

    On some cars, like my Micra, Nissan Australia use a special 5W40 oil that is made by Shell, but is only available from Nissan dealers and is Nissan branded. Interestly, the recommendation in the book is for a 10W+ oil, but every mechanic I've spoken to says the Micra, and Pulsars require a very thin oil. I'll probably switch to 10W40 Full Syntethic Amsoil or 5W30 Full Syntethic Neo Oil at the next service anyway.

    There's a lot of things to consider with oil, brands, viscosity and type (full syntethic, semi-synth, or mineral oil). In your car, I would be looking at a full syntethic or semi synth, with a lot of city driving and long change intervals of 10000km to 15000kms. I would be very reluctant to run mineral oil for that long.

    In the Pug, I had to top up with 0.5L per 2500kms or so. That engine is designed to use oil to help lubricate the valves. I ran 10W40 Full Synethetic Amsoil in it and changed the filter every 5000kms and topped up again. I used a Purflux filter, as OEM from Peugeot. The oil was drained and replaced every 20000kms, and we did a basic analysis on it last time which indicated there was little oxidation or mineral deposits it, indicating that the oil was still good and could've kept being used for another 10000kms. Not that I'd do that, just shows that a long drain interval oil was doing it's job 20000kms later.
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  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I just put the Amsoil in my GTi6 and have definately noticed a difference over Mobil 1.

    Looking at the economics I can get 40kms/12mths out of Amsoil for $90 5L now Mobil 1 is $65 and even though fully synthetic have been told it should still be change at 5-7,000kms intervals. Doesn't take a genius to work it out.

    The Amsoil will also protect my engine better.

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