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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Funny gas

    Whats this I hear about you guys having funny ethenol laced fuel in Ozzie?
    What's the deal with that?
    Where did it come from? Is it commmon? Is it likely to be here in NZ too?
    And most importantly, will it hurt our frogs?

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  2. #2
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    Apparently it;s very common (according to the media if you can believe that). They say it's more common in cheap 'no name' servo's. I've had some terrible petrol from the no name servos near my work (there's about 4 or 5 of them within 5 mins of work) so I stick to Shell Optimax for my pug now

    Ethanol's supposed to be bad for engines at levels of 20% or higher. They say 10% is alright, although you do have an increase in fuel consumption...

    I don't know too much more about it sorry.

    Derek.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Yes, it has been in the news lately.

    <a href="http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2002/12/11/FFXR8044K9D.html" target="_blank">http://drive.fairfax.com.au/content-new/news/general/2002/12/11/FFXR8044K9D.html</a>

    Car makers say they will void warranties of vehicles if they run on a petrol with greater 10% ethanol mix. Then there are potential chances of damage to the cars fuels systems. The majority Ethanol supplier is a big donator to the Liberal Party, and the govt is procrastinating over the whole issue. Dodgy stuff.

    Troy.

  4. #4
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    yeh, on the news last night they also said that one of the petrol bowser suppliers (they didn't say which one)has advised petrol stations using its bowsers that if they choose to mix ethanol into their petrol that it is likely to damage the bowser and void their waranty. Maybe the idea thats its going to damage their own bottom line will stop them.

    cheers!

    Dan.
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  5. #5
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    what i can't understand is that the ethanol that we use to use when i was in charge of a tissue culture laboratory was $35/l
    i was always of the understanding that ethanol was a higher grade than methanol which is pretty cheap
    what i want to know is how they are now making ethanol cheaper than methanol (which we use to use in our cars via a water injection system at WOT with a vaccuum switch)
    they have been using ethanol in the busses in canberra mixed with distalate for years now and the busses seem to be running alright albiet they are diesel engines
    does anyone have concrete facts on what is damaged on a vehicle using ethanol ?
    as far as i know ethanol is the next grade up from methanol and pretty much 99.9% alcohol
    i have an idea that ignition would start playing up if there was a high percantage in the fuel which could cause damage to the pistons but how far does this affect knock sensors and the like in a modern engine ?
    BTW we used to buy methanol from our local service station for 80c/l when super petrol was running at around 60c/l
    and the cars never showed any signs of damage
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  6. #6
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    My understanding is that the ethanol will cause the rubber bits to deteriorate and fail.

    cheers!

    Dan.
    <img border="0" alt="[Citroen Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/citroen.gif" /> 2002 Xsara VTR

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Not that I'm a scientist or anything... but I thought it was an issue of corrosion due to ethanol turning into water in time.

    I know that pre-war race teams had to drain tanks and clean out carbies between races.

  8. #8
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    I filled up my 2 litre 404 with 91 octane ethanol fuel at Holbrook earlier this year and got no pinging (not possible on normal 91), best economy ever and excellent performance.

    Graham Wallis

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    I donít know about the merits of using ethanol in cars but a couple of years ago I used to buy ethanol for the company I was working for at the time. There are only 2 manufacturers of ethanol in Australia, CSR in North Queensland (from molasses) and Manildra in Nowra (from wheat). There are various grades of ethanol with the highest and most expensive being BP pharmacy grade (BP is British Pharmacophilia not British Pertoleum in this context).which is around 99.99% pure. (Pugrambo, $35/litre sounds a bit rich, maybe in small bottles from a chemical supply house. Maybe they price it high so the chemists donít use it in their own Vodka/Bourbon/Scotch/etc. recipes).
    Prices would vary depending on the world molasses and wheat prices, but industrial grade (around 95% pure) would be anywhere from around 50c/litre to 80c/litre in (bulk 20,000 litre tankers delivered in Melbourne or Sydney).
    In the good olí days of cheap petrol, ethanol wasnít used because it was dearer than petrol. Naturally, the ethanol manufacturers werenít particularly interested in dropping the price of ethanol below that of petrol and the petrol companies werenít interested in paying more for ethanol, even if it was a renewable fuel. When oil prices shot up and stayed up, ethanol became viable.
    Iím not 100% sure of this, but I believe it is legal to add up to 10% ethanol without having to declare the fact. I think Brazil uses around 30% ethanol but at this level the engines requires modification.

    Ren
    cheers!
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    I filled up my 2 litre 404 with 91 octane ethanol fuel at Holbrook earlier this year and got no pinging (not possible on normal 91), best economy ever and excellent performance.

    Graham Wallis
    I filled my car up at Hollbrook last week (95RON "Premium"), and i got 100Kms less out of the tank, and winding the car up to 110Kmh took a bloody long time
    Jason Judd
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  11. #11
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    Jason,
    That was the discount servo just north of town?
    I got over 340 miles (66 model car!)from that tank (50 litres) with a fully laden car and didn't spare the right foot.

    Graham Wallis

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger!
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    'twas the Mobil in town...
    Jason Judd
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Does anybody know if this ethanol laced fuel has made it's way to Perth?

    Troy.

  14. #14
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    Jason,
    The Mobil doesn't have ethanol fuel!
    Graham

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    Jason,
    The Mobil doesn't have ethanol fuel!
    Graham
    It was still crap but

    I didnt think it did have Ethanol in it, but it sure was bad.
    Jason Judd
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  16. #16
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    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    Jason,
    The Mobil doesn't have ethanol fuel!
    Graham
    It was still crap but

    I didnt think it did have Ethanol in it, but it sure was bad.
    Jason Judd
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '85 505 GTi Executive
    <img border="0" alt="[Peugeot Emblem]" title="" src="graemlins/peugeot.gif" /> '88 205 GL 1.1

  17. #17
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    Ray Bell:
    Not that I'm a scientist or anything... but I thought it was an issue of corrosion due to ethanol turning into water in time.

    I know that pre-war race teams had to drain tanks and clean out carbies between races.
    They briefly said last night on the news that it was a corrosion issue, so this sounds right.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    wink
    Jason Judd
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  19. #19
    Member 3studwheelnut's Avatar
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    I know that pre-war race teams had to drain tanks and clean out carbies between races.
    The mixtures they used would turn to jelly (jellify?) in several hours.
    Geoffrey odd frog, hopping from 403 to 405 to 407

  20. #20
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The word is jelly...

    "The mixture would jelly in several hours."

    sometimes the English language is simple... but some like to complicate it. Like those who make up a word like 'orientated' when 'oriented' is sufficient.

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