Further thoughts on Wheels tyre test April 2003
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  1. #1
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Further thoughts on Wheels tyre test April 2003

    I've been reading back through the Wheels family sedan tyre test, again, and a few things seem odd about the test. The ranking order of the tyres is totatlly different to many other tests available on the net and the Wheels ranking order also seems to contradict their own test driver's comments page.

    I also can't work out how the Michelin Certis could ever be ranked above the Pirelli P6000.

    A few thoughts spring to mind regarding this oddness. Wheels themselves admitted that variables in the testing (track drying out, etc) brought some errors in. One thing I've been thinking is that many tyre importers in Australia ship in a boat load of stuff every 6 months or so, and maybe "age hardening" of tyres in the warehouse influenced the outcome a bit, with some tyres being almost new and others being almost 12 months old.

    Another point is that some models of tyres can have almost entirely different performance based on their size, etc. For instance Michelin Vivacys under 185mm wide or less seem a softer compound than wider versions (but again this may be due to age hardening with skinnier versions being faster moving stock, so generally softer).

    Anyway, who else was surprised by some of the Wheels rankings and has their own comments to add regarding the performance of the tyres that were ranked in the test?

    Dave

    <small>[ 03 August 2003, 12:28 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>

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  2. #2
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    davemcbean:
    I also can't work out how the Michelin Certis could ever be ranked above the Pirelli P6000.
    Neither can I - I've found P6000s nicer to drive on than Certises. P6000s won't last as long as a Certis though.

    In the later tyre test, they rated the Pirelli P7 as one of the worst tyres in the comparison. Most of the tyre reviews I've read seem to say it's pretty good.

    I'm sure Lincoln will be ready to chime in

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  3. #3
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Pug307:
    P6000s won't last as long as a Certis though.
    Yeah, Certis are VERY biased towards high mileage.
    I don't know how they managed to rank second in the wet slalom ahead of the Dunlops and Bridgestones which in my experience are more sure footed in the wet than the Certis.

    I'd say those Certis must have just arrived off the ship and were very fresh, while the other tyres were a bit older, OR the track had dried out a bit before they tested the Certis.

    Dave
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  4. #4
    nJm
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    Did the Certis do well in a wet slalom??

    My only experience with tyres on my pug were the very worn MXTE's, and then my new Certis. The Certis has great traction in the wet when taking off on hills etc, but I found they have shocking cornering abilitiy when the roads are wet. Numerous times I've felt both the front and the rear slide when cornering quite slowly...
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  5. #5
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    nJm:
    Did the Certis do well in a wet slalom??...
    Yeah second only to the P6000 in their price bracket (sub $120?).

    In the wet stopping test they were ranked 3rd behind the Dunlop Monza 200R and Goodyear Eagle GA+ and 2 places AHEAD of the P6000. Weird!

    Then in the driver's comments the Certis was said to have "good wet grip" while the P6000 had "very good wet grip". I'm not surprised about the good wet grip of the P6000, but the Certis???


    Dave

    <small>[ 03 August 2003, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
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  6. #6
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    They are great in sleet....

  7. #7
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Probably the silliest thing about the Wheels test was that in the Driver's comments he wrote of the Yokohama S760: "It just didn't want to stop in the wet"

    ...and yet they went ahead and rated it number 1 amongst the budget tyres ahead of the Pirelli P6000 which had "very good grip in wet, good wet braking". Go figure

    Dave

    <small>[ 03 August 2003, 06:46 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
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  8. #8
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    My recollection of the test was that none of the driver's comments contributed to the purely quantitative results.

    Re: P7s, if I said this before, IMHO, this Wheels test is the most thorough of any test that I've read. The P7s which beat the Michelin Pilot Sports, did so on different cars and at a different time of day, and the variables are probably too great to directly compare M3 with Mondeo in that test. I would personally rate P7s that low in that company.

    As for Certis v P6000s, I agree it's strange, but the results are purely statistical. I'd take the P6000s any day...
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  9. #9
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    GTI124:
    My recollection of the test was that none of the driver's comments contributed to the purely quantitative results.
    That's true, but the way they just added up the scores at the end is what made the driver's comments inconsistent with the outcome. Surely they should have weighted certain factors more highly than others. To give lap times equal importance to wet weather performance is ridiculous for real world driving where safety is the number one concern. They were basically endorsing a certain tyre at the end (S760) as the safest tyre to go for if you're looking for a cheapish tyre, whether they meant to or not.

    Dave

    <small>[ 04 August 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: davemcbean ]</small>
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  10. #10
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    The way they structure that test is biased towards keeping the manufacturers happy. I personally feel that subjective comments on feel are very important.

    You can have a tyre that feels great, like the Sumitomo HTRZ IIs that I like, but perform less in the numbers. However, if you never push that hard (or the speed at which you drive is purely based on whether you feel the car can go that hard or not) the feel becomes more important than stats. For example, going up into a mountain range, you're after feel of the limit of adhesion, rather than being able to go faster through the corner.

    Anyway, yes the comments are inconsistent with the results, but that'd just be to keep the tyre guys happy (especially Yoko who don't play with Motor anymore) so they keep playing. It's understandable.
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