Is Camping Fun or Just Cheap?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Is Camping Fun or Just Cheap?

    Is camping fun or just a cheap form of vacation?

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    I camped out twice when I was a boyscout and it just seemed to be one useless task after another. I notice so many Australians camp and they suggest that I do some camping in "Tassie" on my next trip.

  2. #2
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    Camping's fun

    That's all there is to it. I spent 6 months of my life camping around all states of Australia except Tassie and WA when I was 4 and 5 years old. I guess that could have had an impact?

    Derek

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Jamesnj:
    Is camping fun or just a cheap form of vacation?

    I camped out twice when I was a boyscout and it just seemed to be one useless task after another. I notice so many Australians camp and they suggest that I do some camping in "Tassie" on my next trip.
    I've been camping for both pleasure and work all my life James. Probably spend on average between 1 month and two "under canvas" or "under the stars" every year (well, at least since I was about 10 minths old. When I get back I always find myself wondering why I don't make it twelve months a year!

    Cheers

    Rod

    <small>[ 07 September 2003, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
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  4. #4
    nJm
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    I've never really gone camping. Mind you, I see my 505 as one of the perfect cars to take (can take that damn thing almost anywhere!). I have a cousin who spent ages camping around Tassie with her boyfriend, and said it was all going well until they tried to drive up Mt Wellington and the gradient of the road led to their old Holden Gemini's fuel pump not being able to pump fuel up to the engine! Whoops....

    While on the topic of Tassie - what is it with all the crappy rental cars? Each time I've been we've had Hyundi Excel/Accent or if we're lucky a 1.5 Mitsubishi Lancer... All these cars are hopelessly inadequate for the largly high speed mountain roads Tassie has to offer. I remember dad driving me in a clapped out Accent (45,000km and feeling pretty worn out) at 120km/h. We go around a gentle bend with a slight crest in the middle. The rear of the Hyundi goes sideways some what. Very unnerving! It also suffered terrible brake fade too. I guess you could spend more and rent a Camry 4cyl or Hyundi Grandure 3L but surely a nice Clio or 206 would be a better bet? My gandma who lives on the east coast of Tassie (in Swansea) has a new Holden Barina. It is a great little car, the fact that it is really an Opel is apparant by its nice body control and stability.
    Nick
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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger!
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    nJm, thanks for telling about the bad rental cars in Tasmania. I'll know not to rent one there,but to rent one in Sydney even if we hadn't planned to start the driving part of the trip there. I had wanted to rent a Landcruiser or better yet, a Range Rover since Rod Hagen said those were best for on road AND offroad and I know that either would hold all our stuff. I wouldn't be doing any of the driving myself but the guy who has offered to drive has lots of offroad experience

  6. #6
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    Where would you rent a Range Rover, I don't think any of the major companies offer them.

    It'd probably be very expensive if you did manage to find one.

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  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! jfn180's Avatar
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    well when you have

    friends + beer + food + camp fire + fishing + footy + no girlfriends or wifes= FUN head_ban head_ban dance dance
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    A Range Rover will be expensive and hard to find, James. for the sort of stuff you would be likely to be doing down there I think a landcruiser, or a Turbo Diesel Nissan patrol, would be fine for what you probably will be doing/

    Cheers

    Rod
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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
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    I joined Cub Scouts in primary school, and found the camps boring and pointless. Mindless singing of songs around a campfire by night, and pointless 'team building' excercises and learning craft by day.

    In high school, I joined the Army Cadets and had the time of my life! This is real camping - stuck out in the bush for 3 days on bivouacs (4X a year), carrying everything you need on your shoulders, while participating on orienteering, skirmishing and other associated excercises. Learnt how to navigate by day and night, shoot, build shelters, start fires, kill/clean/cook food, command a section and later a platoon, and heaps of other usefull stuff.

    Last month, I went with a group of 20 or so on a 4 day hike to lake Tali Karng (alpine, snow, cold, wind...). Not quite as intense as army cadets, but it was another thing altogether when you have a great bunch of friends, all by yourselves going through pain, suffering and general misery together. And a freezing alpine lake in which to swim.
    I suggest you go for a hike in the Cradle mountain areain Tassie. Spectacular sights, brilliant virgin bushland with plenty of native flora (haven't been in summer tho) and fauna. I'm sure you will enjoy it. Go with some knowledgable experienced people, as it's not nice getting lost or stranded out there, and the usual precautions of camping apply - let someone know where you're going and when you expect to return.

    Car camping simply isn't the same anymore. I guess its novel for the first couple of days, with your cute little stove and foldable chairs, but then just becomes a matter of 'why bother?' unless you got something cool to do like hiking or rockclimbing during the day. Haven't tried hunting yet - gotta get wade through legislation for my licence...

    <small>[ 07 September 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Jez 405 ]</small>
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
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    ROD HAGEN, I know rental Range Rovers are hard to find there or anywhere for that matter. I know you can get them in Sydney, I have to find the site again, I emailed them since they don't have the rental rates on their site.I had riden in a Range Rover and just liked the solid feel.

    I rode in a few Landcruisers in Australia and liked them. Never riden in a Nissan Patrol. Rod, do you like driving diesels, especially offroad?

    The trip wouldn't just be in Tasmania but all over Australia. Its still in the planning stages. My Australian friend's friend should be over here for New Years so I'll see if I can trust him with a car that might be rented in my name

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    I have been roadtripping/camping with a range rover.

    Damn its nice crusing around in one of those, lots of room also.

    Drinks fuel LIKE CRAZY. Compared to the other car a nissan Maxima. Prolly half again as much.

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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Rob T's Avatar
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    Camping gives you the oportunity to leave all the excess paraphenalia of everyday life behind, and enjoy locations and scenery that you would pay BIG bucks for in a 5 star hotel. And best of all it allows you to meet people from all walks of life and from all over the globe on a much more intimate level than the usual superficial contact that we make when passing in the hotel corridor.
    I have spent many a memorable evening around the campfire with a beer and the company of good friends - some of whom we might have known for only a few hours.
    Of course, if it's raining, you might prefer to stay in a warm dry hotel.
    Robert Thorne
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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
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    SHOBBZ, what kind of gas mileage did you get with your Range Rover? Are you a light-footed or heavy-footed driver?

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Jamesnj:
    ROD HAGEN, I know rental Range Rovers are hard to find there or anywhere for that matter. I know you can get them in Sydney, I have to find the site again, I emailed them since they don't have the rental rates on their site.I had riden in a Range Rover and just liked the solid feel.

    I rode in a few Landcruisers in Australia and liked them. Never riden in a Nissan Patrol. Rod, do you like driving diesels, especially offroad?

    The trip wouldn't just be in Tasmania but all over Australia. Its still in the planning stages. My Australian friend's friend should be over here for New Years so I'll see if I can trust him with a car that might be rented in my name
    If you are planning an around Australia trip in a 4x4 I'd definitely choose a diesel (you can get Range Rover diesels too by the way), unless somebody with very deep pockets is paying for the fuel. Don't forget that fuel in the capital cities here is around the 90c per litre mark. In the bush it can be much more. A diesel gives you much better mpg, which means much less $$ and , importantly if you are going well of the beaten track, much more range.

    The torque you get with the Patrol turbo diesel is excellent for off road use. My only complaint is a bit of turbo lag in some situations. Well worth thinking about. You'll probably find its cheaper to rent than the others too.

    Stay away from the "lighter" , "mid sized" Toyota and Nissan 4x4's though. They are an absolute pain on most corrugated roads.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger!
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    ROD HAGEN, what are some of the best areas for off-the-beaten path offroading in Victoria?

    I was surprised that most Australians don't know much about the outback. I took a couple of "light adventure tours" when I was there. Light Adventures= guys with landcruisers who will take 3 people a couple of hours out of town on dirt roads and stop at touristy attractions, but if you ask them to drive offroad they DEFINITELY WILL NOT.

    I have also heard of large groups of caravans that will go out into the outback. Some of them are huge, like 20 vehicles. I wouldn't want to drive in a caravan.

    Also ROD HAGEN or anyone else, what are three questions I could ask a driver that would key me into whether or not he knows how to drive offroad adequately?

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Jamesnj,

    I am not sure what the exact mileage was, I was in the maxima most of the time. We were travelling at 100-110km/h for long stretches, often for hours at a time.

    Not leadfooting, just high speed crusing. But it was a thirsty beast.

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  17. #17
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    I like camping in the outback. Its great fun and yes it can be really cheap.
    Nothing like having a solar shower in the nuddie with noone around its great..

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Jamesnj:
    ROD HAGEN, what are some of the best areas for off-the-beaten path offroading in Victoria?
    For me , the best part of Victoria , for doing almost anything, is East Gippsland, James. I've actually done very little 4WDing in Victoria. 4WDing for me is almost exclusively work oriented, and most of it has been in the NT, Queensland and South Australia.

    That said, I've done a LOT of bashing around the fire trails and the like in East Gippsland in old 2wd Peugeots! Its certainly one of the areas that 4x4 drivers down here favor. Quite a few areas there have now been closed off and turned into "hiking only" areas, but there are still plenty of places to go there.

    Essentially it is an area where the mountain ranges come down pretty close to the coast. The coastal strip is full of beautiful little beaches and inlets, then behind that you have "big tree" forests and the ranges themselves. I used to head there for camping holidays each year even when I lived in Alice Springs.

    Most of the coastal section is contained within Croajingalong National Park. Its not a place that you can go "off roading" (too precious), but its a truly lovely part of Australia. The nicest way to see most of it is actually by kayak or on foot. Have a look at <a href="http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/resources/04_0207.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/resources/04_0207.pdf</a> for some more info and a map. You'll find some photos of the coast there on my website <a href="http://rodhagen.customer.netspace.net.au/Mallacoota%20Gallery%202003/index.htm" target="_blank">here</a>

    You'll find some info on one 4x4 trip (on tracks rather than off road) through the area at <a href="http://www.4wdaustralia.com.au/TrekNotes/EastVic/Croajingolong.asp" target="_blank">http://www.4wdaustralia.com.au/TrekNotes/EastVic/Croajingolong.asp</a>

    Immediately behind it are a various state forests . You can 4x4 in many parts of them. This , though has been one of Australia's "environmental battlegrounds" for much of the last twenty years. The fundamental issue has involved conflict over the logging and woodchipping of old growth forests. These are truly some of the most beautiful forests on earth and its tragic to see significant bits of them destroyed. One of the cosequences of the conflict has been the introduction of "no go" areas in some places, to keep protestors out, so you can't guarantee that you will be able to go where you want to. Highly recommended, despite all of the above.

    Next in line you have the "High Country", up behind, starting with two more very beautiful national parks - <a href="http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/resources/05_0311.pdf" target="_blank">Coopracambra</a> and <a href="http://www.parkweb.vic.gov.au/resources/05_0329.pdf" target="_blank">Errinundra</a> . Again its mainly rough track based 4x4ing rather than real "off road" stuff, but its worth it.

    You can spend years in this area and still not get enough of it or see everything it has to offer. We've bought a block of land up at Mallacoota that we intend to build on soon to use as a base for future exploration of it all!

    Type things like "East Gippsland 4WD", "Croajingalong", "Errinundra" and "Coopracambra" into Google and you'll come up with plenty of info.

    <strong>
    Also ROD HAGEN or anyone else, what are three questions I could ask a driver that would key me into whether or not he knows how to drive offroad adequately?
    That's a hard one, James. It really comes down to two fundamental issues.

    1) Temperament You need someone who isn't going to take silly risks, but who isn't so timid that they lack realistic confidence in the vehicles abilities, or panic when you get stuck (as you inevitably will) , or forget about the details that matter. Calm, perceptive, confident is a good blend. An ability to go slow, real slow, helps too. Many inexperienced 4x4 drivers don't realise just how much this matters. They travel unnecessarily slowly when they don't need to (sitting on 80kph when 100 would be fine) or when they actually need to go faster (getting a run up onto a sand dune for example) , and way too fast when they do (trying to travel on a mud road at 60 kph when they should only be doing 20, or at 15 kph on a scree slope when they should be doing 5 or less). Your driver needs the dynamic range of a Mahler symphony, not a contemporary pop song!

    2) Experience. Many 4WD users in Australia rarely get off the bitumen, let alone off the road. You need to get a feel for where they've been, what sort of situations they have found difficult, how much they have done, how well they prepare (though some people seem to spend all their time preparing but know next to nothing about what to do when they get there!). Trips around the more remote parts of the top end and cape york when its wet and muddy , coupled with some serious off roading in rough rocky country and sand is a useful background for the sort of things you want to do. Mechanical knowledge and an ability to improvise is a big plus too when you get into remote areas.

    So, you haven't got your requested "three questions" here, I'm afraid, but then again you are likely to run into more than three types of "situations" in the course of your travels!

    Cheers

    Rod
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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Another couple of things that you need to bear in mind when you are planning your trip, James.

    1) Hire 4x4's are rarely "set up" for serious off road use. They don't usually come with things like electric or PTO winches, or radios, or decent toolkits, or chains, or snatch straps or kangaroo jacks or dual batteries or arcmesh tracks or water tanks or any of the other "extras" that can help you get out of tight spots. They are usually equipped with tyres that work better on the bitumen than in the rough stuff too.

    2) Many hire companies actually make you sign something saying that you will not take the vehicle "off road" and charge prohibitive penalties if you suffer damage as a result vof doing so.

    You'll need to check such things out before deciding what you are going to hire, and factor in the cost of buying or hireing any anciliary equipment that doesn't come as part of the basic "package".

    Cheers

    Rod
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  20. #20
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    They actually specifically BAN the use of 4wd's off road

    Thrifty:
    The Vehicle must not be used by You or by any Authorised Driver (unless authorised by Us in writing):

    On any unsealed road (being a road not sealed with a hard material such as tar, bitumen or concrete) unless the Vehicle is a 4WD in which case it may also be used on graded unsealed roads. No Vehicle (including 4WDs) may be used on off road conditions. Off road conditions include but not is limited to fire trails, beaches, sand, tracks, fields or paddocks.
    Budget:
    Renter agrees that when driving and maintaining the Vehicle during the Rental Period he/she will:

    (n) only use the vehicle on the highway.

    "Highway" means

    (a) an area that is open to, or used by, the public and is developed for, or has as its main use, the driving or riding of motor vehicles including any unsealed road, or

    (b) a place that is a road by virtue of government or local authority order or declaration. The excluded areas include, but are not limited to, any area for off-road driving (such as trails, tracks and fields), paddocks or fields used as car parks, (unless designated as an official car park), fire trails and any road or surface above the snowline.
    So that pretty much rules the big guys out unfortunately I'm sure you'll be able to find some company that will offer it to you but be prepared to pay lots.

    I'd almost contemplate buying a used 4WD (maybe even partially fitted out) and selling it at the end of the trip. How long are you travelling for?

    Derek.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Yes, that's the way it theoretically is, Derek. On the other hand I've found that most companies really turn a blind eye to "off road" use unless anything nasty happens. The worst , in my experience over the last three decades, have been some of the "mid range" companies, who get deperately upset by things like polish deep scratches on the duco from branches hitting the vehicle on narrow roads.

    In most cases the "policies" are nastier than their application. That said, I've never been in a situation where the vehicle I've been driving has needed recovering from an "off road" situation.

    There is a lot to be said for the "buy and sell" approach if you can afford it. The chances are that you will be able to find something that is a lot shabier than the vehicles that you can rent, but far, far more competent in the bush. The resale value of these vehicles is usually so good that if you can afford the original outlay it makes far more sense than hiring at $100 a day.

    Cheers

    Rod
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Ah yes insurance gentlemen, insurance ensures that the companies wont like you taking their vehicles off the formed roads. 4wd insurance is a minefield. Many policies will not cover the vehicle if it is not on a marked track on a map. As most of our maps are 25+ years old many marked tracks no longer exist and others have been formed to take their place. I have heard of several major accidents mostly involving rollovers in the bush where the car has been dragged to the nearest marked road for just that reason.

    As a 4wd instructor (hmn must get ready for the course on the weekend) the general knowledge of the untrained for attempting difficult terrain, (read not acessable with 2wd Peugoet of any type) is pitifully low, with most not realising that air can be removed from the tyres to aid traction and with the aid of a portable compressor put back in again. I can understand the rental companies reluctance to allow anyone to take the vehicles off road.

    James where are you heading and what sort of 4wding do you want to do. I have a lot of contacts in the 4wd business and may be able to point you in the right direction. If you want serious offroading, and outback travel stick with the Landcruiser, it is the popular choice in the outback in either 80, 100 or 75/78 series guise. Spares are more readily available for the cruiser in these remote areas than the Patrol (also a very fine performer when the going gets rough)For long distance touring a diesel is the only option and dont be surprised at fuel prices of 150cpl and more. Gotta love long range tanks.

    <small>[ 09 September 2003, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: cruiserman ]</small>
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  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yeah,

    I've never been 4wd'ing, sure I've taken a 2wd some places that would stun most 4wd'ers (probably not cruiserman though). It must shock a lot of 4wd owners when they get to where there going "offroad", and pull up next a VW kombi and a nose heavy front wheel drive at there camping place roll_lau roll_lau . I've also been badly bogged, I'd never dream of going offroad, unless it was with a 2nd vehicle, even with a 4wd. At least using winches & snatch straps if you get really stuck you can use the 2nd vehicle to pull from (or go get help with ). We are talking remote places here aren't we

    If I bought a 4wd the first thing I'd do is join the local 4wd club and find out what my personal 4wd could & couldn't do (rather than finding out in the middle of nowhere roll_lau ).

    Having said that, there's not many places that my old nose heavy FWD Citroens can't get to (with out talking stupidly off the map places). My old '63 ID19 has been to most of the 4wd only places in the Grampians. If it had have been wet I wouldn't have even considered it though. Common sense plays a large part. Those clay tracks would turn from concrete to slop with some decent rain. It would then be bloody hard work to get a 2wd out (if it's even possible), no matter how capable it is.

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