Help :( Bad noise in my engine :( maybe clutch?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Help :( Bad noise in my engine :( maybe clutch?

    Ok,

    Yesterday my car was making a very faint winning noise, it almost sounded like a gearbox problem, but since it was so so faint, I didn't bother listening harder to it.

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    My car was fine today, the noise was gone untill this afternoon it came back with avengance.

    There is a loud whine when the car is driving, when I am stopped and idling in neutral, you can't really hear the noise untill you engage the clutch, then it is loud. also when the clutch is engaged through the gears, the noise gives a kinda flutter. It's a high pitched whine.

    I *think* it's a clutch issue, either a thrust brace bearing or a Spigget??

    would any1 help me diagnose the problem? The car is booked for a 63,000km service this wednesday anyway, so the problem will be fixed at the latest on Wednesday at the pug' service center.

    Anyway, I am not that technically minded, is it safe to keep driving the car? or is my clutch about to pack it in completely?
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    Sounds like a dry & soon to shit itself Thrust bearing, although i've had later Renault R10 thrusts go 15,000 km before they finally died. Better replace it sooner rather than later. Murphy's law says when it goes i'm gunna stuff ya good. ie. like peak hour in Sydney.
    cheers!
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    Damien.

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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    yeah
    thanks.

    Hopefully it will holdout to this Wednesday morning for it's 63K service

    How much do you think would I be looking at for a new one? (if that is def' the problem)

    It will be in at Alec Mildrun Peugeot service center in Artarmon
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  4. #4
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    Sorry no idea of Pug prices. cheers!
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Thanks all the same mate
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    n b j:
    Thanks all the same mate
    Think "gearbox out". The labour is probably going to be the killer. Thrust bearings themselves don't generally cost a motza but it could be worth replacing the clutch as well while the box is off.

    cheers!
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  7. #7
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    n b j:
    yeah
    thanks.

    Hopefully it will holdout to this Wednesday morning for it's 63K service

    How much do you think would I be looking at for a new one? (if that is def' the problem)

    It will be in at Alec Mildrun Peugeot service center in Artarmon
    think of how much it costs to replace a clutch as talked about in a couple of other threads and take the price of the clutch itself off the price and you will be very close to the answer
    but depending on how many k's the car has done (ie over 100k or has been given a hard time) then i'd do the clutch at the same time and to hell with it
    you aren't going to pay any more for labour while the box is out getting the thrust race replaced
    while it is in ther eget them to check the seals in the car where the 1/2 shafts go int o the diff and make sure they are in good condition while it is there as they do have a tendency to leak after a while and it's a good time to get them done as well as i think the 1/2 shafts have to be removed anyway
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  8. #8
    Local Tyrant gibgib's Avatar
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    If the bearing grabs it will start to rip into the pressure plate, metal on metal.
    You'd be up for a new pressure plate as well then
    I'd try not the jab in the clutch, ie bring the bearing up to speed as gently as possible & hope like hell it lasts until your service.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    nbj,

    does the noise come and go when you press the clutch in/out with the car stationary?
    does it happen when you are driving in gear with clutch in/out?
    does it happen when in neutral when rolling down the hill with clutch in/out?

    If you do those quick tests Im sure the spanner brigade here will be able to diagone the fault remotely. There is a number of things that could be making a whiny sound, it really all comes down to the definition of a whine. wink
    But I would tend to agree with the above diagnosis and put my bet on a bearing playing up.

    <small>[ 02 August 2003, 06:18 PM: Message edited by: tekkie ]</small>
    .
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  10. #10
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    63K is really low for a thrust bearing to pack in. Is there a definite correlation between the clutch pedal being pushed in, and the noise occurring? Get someone to listen at the clutch end of the engine from outside with the bonnet open while you push the pedal in and out with the engine running. Has the 206 got a cable clutch? Sometimes cables transmit noise, although it wouldn't be loud.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    The noise does not happen in Neutral, but it does happen when I am driving in any gear weather the clutch is engaged or not.

    Also when I pushe the clutch pedal in, the noise makes a sudden higher pitched flutter.

    The noise is a whine whilst driving, it is not too high pitched but I don't know how else to describe a whine without recording it.

    Like I said when I put the clutch in, the whine goes higher pitched and gives a kind of a flutter noise as it is engaged.

    Also when taking off in 1st gear, the car shudders a bit, almost like you would expect if you had a burnt out clutch or something, my revs need to be higher then usual when taking off to avoid shuddering.

    did this help the diagnosis anymore?
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I take it you have checked the level of the oil in the gearbox??? eek!

    Alan S cheers!

    <small>[ 02 August 2003, 10:07 PM: Message edited by: Alan S ]</small>
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    I'd say the clutch has been adjusted a tad tight leavin the thrust bearing just tuching the clutch plate finger or thrust plate which ever is fitted if so 63k would destroy the bearings at the heat generated by the constant spinning bearing would over heat them and consequently throw out the lubricating grease.
    I caused this to happen years ago in my R8 as at the time i was very competitive in club sport & i thought the closer to the floor, the clutch engaged the quicker the take off or gear change, any way 15k km was all i got from new.
    cheers!
    Health and good fortune always,
    Damien.

    We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
    We ran to the sounds of thunder.
    We danced among the lightning bolts,
    and tore the R10's assfromunder.

    Robert Jordan & memyself&I

    1/48th Scale Alpine A310,
    N-scale 1/160th Renault & Citroen, Advert. Signs & Billboards

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    my clutch hasn't been touched since I bought the car, so I guess peugeot know what they're doing in regards to that...

    I guess it has packed it in...

    I don't drive my car that hard, as in I havn't ever taken it to the circuit, I have burnt the clutch out a couple of times whilst just riding it on a slight hill and not realising it until I get a sudden wif of burnt clutch. But yeah this has only happened a couple of times.

    Sounds like I am in for a lot of labour costs, hopefully it only takes the day to get fixed. The mechanics don't know what they are in for yet, they think it's just a routine 63k service...which it was, until yesterday.
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  15. #15
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    n b j,

    I'd bet on it being more than a day (to be safe)
    Wednesday they'll take the gearbox out, diagnose and order parts which will come late Wednesday/early Thursday and then they need time to put it all back together.

    Derek

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Yeah I guess so

    Why oh Why! just when my car is running so well and no problems, THIS HAPPENS! Out of the blue!

    I still don't know if I should drive it. I mean I am not that technically minded, so I don't know what would happen if the thrust bearing just suddenly packed it in completely. Just no clutch? or would it be no drive?

    I rember had a mazda 121 that I was taking a hard corner in and got some serious front wheel axel tramp and the driveshaft ripped away from the wheels, the revs went through the roof, car was in gear, clutch disengaged.
    scared me, car needed to be towed But that of course was when I was young and foolish wink
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
    206XR 1.6ltr - SOLD
    BMW E36 325i Coupe
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  17. #17
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    Given we're still not 100% sure of what it is, I would not drive it unnecessarily. ie leave it in the driveway until Wednesday morning.

    Take it down nice and early (say, 7am... by 7:30-7:45 the highway gets very busy to the Gore Hill Freeway) even though the workshop probably doesn't open till 8am. Nothing worse than having a complete breakdown in peakhour - trust me I've had it happen before

    If the thrust bearing packs it in completely, you risk destroying your pressure plate as well (as gibgib described) which would add even more cost because it would then be metal on metal.

    You described shuddering when taking off from a stand-still. That does indicate the clutch is worn out. If the clutch starts to slip 100% while you're driving, you're not going anywhere fast... although you might be able to keep it moving in a high gear like 4th with minimal power application.

    Good luck with it
    Derek.

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    Yeah I think I have diagnosed a problem early.

    ie... some people drive a car making a whining noise thinking "oh thats strange" I am a lot more paranoid. It's not that loud and I have litterally only driven it for about half an hour since hearing the noise.

    The shuddering is only very slight, at first I thought it was me being lazy, but it is definately a worn clutch. That I can guarantee.

    But like you said, I don't know for sure what the problem is yet, so yeah will have to resort to public transport to and from work and uni untill after Wednesday cry hehehehehe. I now live in Nth sydney, so it's just a short trip south on the highway in the morning, so it will be against the peak hour traffic, few!

    Thanks all for your feedback, no doubt I will let you know on wednesday night what the problem is and how deep I had to dig into my pockets!
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  19. #19
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    nbj, also let us know what Alec Mildren are like too please. I'm thinking of using them for the 307. Them or the dealer we bought it off in Arncliffe.
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    I used to deal with North Shore European Cars in Brookvale which is the Puegeot Delership I originally bought my 206 from over 3 years ago. But I had an emergancy once comming across the harbour bridge when the Engine Management system shut down two pistons due to an engine coil playing up. I took it to the nearest Pug' service center which was Alec Mildren and they did a very good job.

    They were very quick at getting in parts, and were good to deal with, etc.

    HOWEVER... a crack apeared gradually in the muffler on my car last year and I decided to take it in and show them (car was under warrenty and all) so they decided to order one after they put the car briefly on the hoist whilst I was there to insepct the damage.

    5 days later they rang me up and said, yeah we got ya new muffler, bring your car in tomorrow at 8am and we will fix it, I did so, turned up at 5pm after work and they made me wait for 45 mins whilst they find my car, etc... Well to my surprise nothing had been done because they ordered a rear muffler rather then a center muffler, even though when I initially showed them I said it was the center muffler that was leaking. GROAN!!

    SO I took the car home and waited a further 2 weeks for a center muffler, now during this time I recieved a defect notice from the police after pulling me over and hearing the spluttering comming from my cracked muffler, I rang Pug' They had the muffler in but didn't have a free time to work on my car for a further 2 weeks, So I took my pug to the nearest Midas who fixed it all up for me in a few hours.

    This is the first time I am taking my car back to Alec Mildren since that last F^&KUP, so I will let you know how they go diagnosing the possible thrust bearing/clutch issue with my car.

    They are quite friendly there, so I don't mind dealing with them, Also they are my closest pug service center (only 5 mins away), so it's a lot more convienient for me then going to brookvale.
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
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  21. #21
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Lincoln I didnt know you bought a 307?Tell us more?
    Where from???
    Manual or auto? head_ban

  22. #22
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    Hi Daniel, it's my flat mates. A 307 XSI in manual. I'm starting to like it...just :p
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  23. #23
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    I got this reply to my exact same question in another forum...

    does this seem wierd to any1? Aussie Frogs are the only people who's opinions I trust and value wink

    1. Make sure your handbrake works well, and that it can hold the car on a steep incline
    2. Find a steep incline, and park the car on it, nose facing down the slope
    3. Pull the handbrake as far as it will go to brake the rears solid
    4. Engage reverse
    5. Give it some revs, and hold them high, like you're going to launch off the traffic lights in a drag race
    6. Pop the clutch - don't feather it or ride it, just release it altogether.
    7. If the car stalls, and doesn't move off the mark, the clutch is still good
    8. If the car doesn't move but doesn't stall and instead a clutch plate starts whining, smoking and smelling, and revs go up as you press the gas and the car stays immobile - clutch set is shot, it needs replacing (the whole set)
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
    206XR 1.6ltr - SOLD
    BMW E36 325i Coupe
    73 Porsche 911RS

  24. #24
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    Sounds like a valid way to test it... although not good on a clutch that may have nothing wrong with it. If the clutch is slipping like that test is attempting to diagnose however, you'd know about it when you're driving, particularly climbing hills as the revs will rise without the related increase in road speed.

    This person obviously doesn't know Peugeots though - you're going to lift the rear end way up in the air just like you do when you put the handbrake on on a steep hill when facing upwards wink

    Derek

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    That would be a .... err... backyard test for a clutch plate problem. Nor really a test for thrust bearing problem. And if you are having a gearbox internals problem Im sure it wouldnt do it any good.
    .
    1300cc's of jap buzzbox delivered the times below.

    EC 1:54.6 , Wakefield 1:13.15 , OP (short) 52.00 , OP GP 1:24.40


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