Driver Qualification Test in NSW
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! bennymarsh's Avatar
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    Driver Qualification Test in NSW

    I dont know how many people on here are Green P platers in NSW, but if there are any, did you guys know we have to sit ANOTHER test before we get our full lisence now? Now i know when i went for my lisence they said we had to do one to get our green p's (P2), but there was never anything about doing a test to get our full lisence.

    What do you guys think about it? It just seems to be a way to get more revenue out of us for no real reason. I would think after they have put us through 3 years of restrictions that we should know how to drive and avoid accidents. And its just a pain in the ass that i have to go and study and sit for another driving test to be quiet honest, though i suppose i can take a day off work and make a day of it! Still, what a pain!

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    maybe it's another way of cutting down on people on the road that can't drive
    as we have seen on the roads everyday there are plenty of people out there that can't park a car let alone know how to stop a car properly
    there is more to driving a car than knowing how to do a 3 point turn
    and this crazy idea of looking over your shoulder to change lanes has to be the craziest idea i have ever heard of
    who in their right mind would remove their eyes from the front of the car to look behind them when cars are fitted with mirrors which IF they are adjusted right you do not have a blind spot but how many people are taught this simple but very important feature ????

    Benny
    i'm sure you are a competant driver so i'm not aiming this at you just 90% of the other idiots that are allowed on our roads generally making them a very unsafe place to be
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    Fellow Frogger! bennymarsh's Avatar
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    Thanks Pugrambo!

    I do agree that a lot of people should be made to take this test, but i think these days, but the time you've done your road rules test for your L's, 50 hours of log book driving on your L's, a road test to get your P's, 1 year of restricted driving on your P's, a hazard perceptions test to go from your P's to P2, and 2 years of driving on your P2 with restrictions counting for almost 4 years of driving, do they really need to have another test? If anything they should get everyone to do it everytime they need to to renew their lisence, that would make more sense than getting someone who has already done all of what i just said to do another test! If everyone did it i wouldnt have an issue with it!

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    You ain't seen nothing yet!!
    As some know, I'm involved with trying to kick some sense into the proposed changes to the Traffic Act in Queensland in relation to P licences and have they got some little gems in there.
    Try this: Provisional Licence holders have additional maximum speed limits imposed on them. In other words, if the maximum is 100 kph, P licence holders may have 80 or 90. Should be fun on the Bruce Highway at Easter Holidays.

    They will be only be allowed to tow a trailer up to 250 kgs (about the weight of an empty trailer.)

    A curfew will be applied.

    P licence holders will be restricted in the horsepower or power to weight ratio of the cars they drive.
    ..........and so it goes on. They have not got a bloody clue; they live in cuckooland.
    Biggest problem is they seem unable to think for themselves so rely on "experts" (drips under pressure) whistle
    in this case, the experts have come from NSW & Vic (the two Australian States with the worst traffic records - something I promptly pointed out to them) Sweden, Norway, Finland, Canada & the US.
    All drive on the opposite side of the road, have cold climates hence snow, good public transport systems, multi lane high speed freeways, mostly have average shorter distances to travel, have superior road & traffic control infrastructure which means that things applicable to their countries are totally inapplicable for Queensland.

    I don't think they'd noticed going on the reaction. cry cry

    Little wonder we have the road toll we have; Alice in Wonderland seems to be the basis for most changes to our Traffic Act. deal mallet

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Be fair, Alan...

    NSW might have a pretty poor record, but it also cops more through traffic than any other state.

    Thicktorians heading north for winter, anyone heading to Sydney or Canberra, Queenslanders on virtually any out of state holiday, they all go into NSW for the greater part of their trip.

    That said, there's nothing to write home about with average driving ability and standards in this country these days.

    Queenslanders can't merge, they couldn't get from three lanes to two smoothly if their lives depended on it! Victorians drive too fast in towns... all of them are full of kids who think they know it all because the art of driving has been forgotten in favour of passing stupid tests.

    Even Tasmania, once the home of the good drivers, is slipping from what I hear.

    But it's good that you're doing this, I missed out on that appointed day and am in so much trouble with my living arrangements I probably couldn't do anything anyway.

    I'd love a chance to air my views, all based on some pretty high mileage experience and keenly observing the road toll and the rules changes over the past forty odd years.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    bennymarsh:
    .....If everyone did it I wouldn't have an issue with it!
    If everyone had to do it then it would be so unpopular the Government would lose office!

    There seriously should be some revision tests at some time, however. Most people don't stay up to date with rule changes.

    Roundabouts confuse them enough, but have you seen how many people stop at 'give way' signs?

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    Fellow Frogger! bennymarsh's Avatar
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    As i say, when i become prime minister, the first thing i'm doing is banning any smoking outside of your own house whip , the second thing is getting rid of 4wd's evil off metropolitan roads (i can see they are needed in the country, but not in the city). I dont care if i only ever got 1 term, if i achieved those laws i would be happy with my term! head_ban So i'll just add driving tests every time you need to renew your lisence, shouldn't lose me too many more votes moon

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    bennymarsh:
    the second thing is getting rid of 4wd's evil
    Yeah like that good looking girl in the "P Platers" team said on TV last night wink

    Ray, I agree with you on the roundabouts thing. It's frustrating enough in a car when someone baulks at a roundabout but driving loaded trucks, it drives you mad

    Alan, as for the reduced speed limits, those rules apply pretty much everywhere else in Australia don't they? My sister's on her red P's now and has a 90km speed limit - Ben being on his green P's has a 100km speed limit. To be honest, P platers are the most likely to speed, but I suppose it's at effort to do something.

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  9. #9
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    Funnily enough, despite being probably the most draconian in regards to speed, Victoria doesn't have a specific speed limit solely for its P platers.

    Quite funny, our Transport minister was fined for driving 58 in a 50 zone. Apparently that area is now 60 (heresay), but he said he didn't think he was driving dangerously.

    Hmmmn!

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  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    "Alan, as for the reduced speed limits, those rules apply pretty much everywhere else in Australia don't they? My sister's on her red P's now and has a 90km speed limit"

    This is exactly my argument. When I drive in NSW and most is on multi lane highways or wide country roads.
    Drive from Brisbane to Rockhampton & see how much is & all having heavy transports all over them in droves. Try overtaking anywhere between Gympie & Tiaro & see how you go and if you don't, you end up with a bean head in a loaded Semi half a metre off your bumper flashing his spotlights in your R/V mirror.
    My bet is that this would increase head on accidents by at least 100 a year; I can't see how it couldn't.
    The curfew would be an even bigger joke due to the time limitations in the region I live. Go to Brisbane, leave after sundown & get in a traffic snarl & your teenage - early twenties dausghter spends the night parked on the side of the Bruce Highway or risks getting booked as well as spending the night on the roadside....absolutely bloody ridiculous.
    Oh & a note to the wise; as we always seem to end up hearing from our southern counterparts about the level of driving skills down there, don't ever lose sight of the fact that I was a driving instructor for a few years & I have seen these driving skills from inside the car also. roll_lau roll_lau 2_cents

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  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! bennymarsh's Avatar
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    I actually agree with the speed limit imposed on P platers. I dont agree with the "you always have to do 10km less than the speed limit" one they are suggesting though, i think that would actually be dangerous on suburban streets, espetially main roads (ie 60-70km/h roads). But i agree with the limit the power of their cars and definetly dont let them drive 4wd's! I was scared shitless of our V6 camry when i first got my lisense and would only drive the straight 4 camry (yes we have 2, its very sad! but we now have a 206, YAY!), so i think it would be a good idea for the first year. After that, let them have their RS Clios etc

    And i have to say i'm always shocked when i see P2 drivers zoom past me, i drive at the speed limit (yes one of those slow coaches), considering the fact they dont have many points to lose!

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    to pass the theory is simple
    anyone with 1/2 a brain can study up on what rules are what
    but put them into practice is something else
    i'm talking about these people that are out there after taking 8+ stabs at getting a full license and still can't drive a car to save themselves
    really 4 years experience is not a lot
    there are people out there that will tell you that they have been driving for 50 years and never had an accident
    woopi i say
    how far have they travelled in that time ?????
    it's not time it's distance travelled
    would you have a pilot in a plane that has been able to fly for 10 years but has only ever flown once a year ?????
    i know this can't happen but it's the same thing
    provisional drivers should be speed limited, size limited and have a curfew
    sit down the street one day and watch how many P platers drive up and down the street for hours on end and for what ?????
    chew up more fuel ???
    go sideways at every round-a-bout because they think they are good if they can do it
    any idiot can spin wheels in a car
    driving a car laid right back in the seat with a hat on backwards with stereo blasting spinning wheels makes them good drivers so they think
    what about the person about to cross the road they don't see while they are laid back in their seats ???
    even if they are upright are they taught how to stop a car in an emergency ???
    no they are tested on things like hill starts and reverse parking
    even these things are too hard for a lot of people out there but they are driving around every day
    ask most people who taught them to drive and they will say a friend or parents but who taught those people how to drive and then those people
    by the time you get down to it you are learning a lot of mistakes and basically habits from 50+ years ago
    i'm not having a go at anyone in particular
    if you can drive then great have a full lisence
    if you can't then don't drive and we all know and have seen people out there that can't drive
    i see them everyday here in town
    i know people that won't even drive down the main street here as it scares them or they will only park in a spot they can go striaght through as they say the car won't go backwards it never goes where i want it to
    how in the hell are they able to drive around ??
    sorry for my rant but this country has to make getting a lisence a lot harder, change the test to test people on real life situations like stopping a car, take cars off people for spinning up wheels everywhere or sitting back in their seats with stereos blasting
    if you want to ride a motor bike you have to do a rider training day even before you get your L's why can't they do it for cars ??
    sorry for my rant people but this really gets me that there are people out there that drive that shouldn't be
    forget speed cameras, get the police back in towns and start policing the towns to get rid of the idiots and or their cars that way more people may live on the roads
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by bennymarsh
    <strong>.....I was scared sh*tless of our V6 camry when I first got my lisense and would only drive the straight 4 Camry.....
    You shouldn't have a licence then... simple as that.

    To be that scared there is a level of timidity in you that needs to be worked out. Otherwise you will stand a good chance of killing someone one day with an irrational move on the road.

  14. #14
    XTC
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    Ray Bell:
    You shouldn't have a licence then... simple as that.To be that scared there is a level of timidity in you that needs to be worked out. Otherwise you will stand a good chance of killing someone one day with an irrational move on the road.
    Easy on the boy .... even I remember being a little apprehensive when first getting behind the wheel, on the street, by myself. Even though I'd learned how to drive when I was about 14 it was a big responsibility (doesn't help when the folks have nice shiny new cars !) - it didn't last long and yes I made plenty of mistakes in my first 10+ years of driving - never hit anything, maybe it was luck - maybe I've always tended to drive on the defensive side. Either way a car is the most lethal weapon a 17YO can get his/her hands on, they should be a little scared on the road.

    XTC206

    PS: there is scared and there's scared ,but no-one should think that once inside a car you are invincible .. it's safer to walk. dance
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    Pug307:
    Quite funny, our Transport minister was fined for driving 58 in a 50 zone. Apparently that area is now 60 (heresay), but he said he didn't think he was driving dangerously. Hmmmn!</strong>
    That's a poor effort .. our minister for Transport and Road Safety, Alannah MacTiernan lost her licence after being caught doing 98kmh in a 60kmh zone. !! What was Gallop thinking disappro

    Full Story.

    MacTiernan loses road safety over licence bans



    PERTH

    Western Australia's Infrastructure Minister was today stripped of her portfolio's road safety responsibilities after admitting she had lost
    her driver's licence three times in about 14 years.

    Allanah MacTiernan said yesterday she had lost her licence after a speeding fine, but failed to mention a 1994 suspension after being caught with a blood-alcohol reading of 0.08 and a ban in 1986-87 for a similar alcohol-related offence.

    She revealed the 1994 suspension on ABC radio today, and the 1986-87 licence loss during a later doorstop interview with reporters.

    Ms MacTiernan told reporters Premier Geoff Gallop had today removed the road safety responsibility from her portfolio of Infrastructure, Transport and Road Safety.

    She said she would retain all other components of the portfolio, as well as her planning portfolio.

    The removal of only her road safety responsibility came as a surprise to political observers in light of Dr Gallop's pre-election vow that a Labor government would uphold the strictest ministerial conduct code in the nation.

    It had been anticipated Ms MacTiernan would lose the portfolio altogether after revelations of the 1994 licence loss, coupled with yesterday's suspension.

    Dr Gallop said responsibility for road safety would be given to police minister Michelle Roberts.

    Ms MacTiernan told reporters she acknowledged she was not a good role model for road safety, given her "shoddy" driving record.

    "There is now a public interest in my entire driving record and I am going to tell you that it is not a record I'm proud of," Ms MacTiernan
    said.

    "I have lost my licence twice before (yesterday) - around 1986-87 and again in "94-95. Both of these were from point-08 offences and, about 10 years prior to that, 1976, I had a minor careless driving charge.

    "Now this has become a matter of public comment I cannot credibly go out there and talk about issues of road safety.

    "It may well be that it was part of the transport portfolio that I should have given some thought to. I didn't do it.

    "It has now become very evident that it is a problem and I'm prepared to cop the reality that I have to lose that aspect of my portfolio."

    Yesterday, Dr Gallop stood by Ms MacTiernan, saying the latest licence suspension was "not a sackable offence."

    Today - facing the first test of Labor's tough ministerial conduct standards - the premier reprimanded his minister.

    "Today I've been informed that Allanah's driving record is worse than was indicated yesterday," Dr Gallop said.

    "And that leads me to the further conclusion that, in respect of her duties as spokesperson for the area of road safety, it simply isn't
    appropriate for Allanah to be carrying out those functions."

    Opposition leader Colin Barnett said he would have been happy yesterday to have seen road safety stripped from Ms MacTiernan, but after today's revelations she should be stood down from the transport portfolio.

    "The bare minimum now has to be removal from her transport portfolio," Mr Barnett told AAP.

    "Whether she stays in Cabinet is now a legitimate question."

    -AAP
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    When I first learned to drive, I was a little nervous until I had got used to it. I have been driving off road since I was about 10, but it is an entirely different matter when you are on a road with cars coming at you (especially the log trucks that frequent the area I learned to drive in), and it takes a bit of geting used to.
    I believe that a curfew is a stupid idea, as many young people have to drive at night. My ex-neighbour was an apprentic ebaker, and he went to work at 3 am. His brother is an apprentice chef, and returns from work at 1 am. They would have been in a difficult situation if curfew laws were in place.
    I do believe, however, that a restriction on the power of cars driven by L/P platers should be introduced. Too many drive overpowered cars that an experienced driver would have no problem with, but an inexperienced driver could easily lose control of. The worst are the hotted up Commodores/Falcons, with their rough handling to start with. A P plate friend of mine traded his Pulsar for a hot Commodore, and had it written off inside 2 months.
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ray Bell
    Originally posted by bennymarsh
    <strong>.....I was scared sh*tless of our V6 camry when I first got my lisense and would only drive the straight 4 Camry.....
    You shouldn't have a licence then... simple as that.

    To be that scared there is a level of timidity in you that needs to be worked out. Otherwise you will stand a good chance of killing someone one day with an irrational move on the road.
    I meant it... and anyone with any sense, reading what bennymarsh wrote, would have to come to the same conclusion.

    Getting scared to any great degree just because you're driving a car with some more power, and while it's a car over which you have the control to regulate that power is exhibiting way too much timidity.

    People who drive with this attitude are a danger... there's nothing there about other traffic, difficult conditions or anything else. He says just driving the V6 scared him.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! bennymarsh's Avatar
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    Ray, you can knock me all you like, but i know i'm a good driver and i deserve a full lisence. The original point of my post was that I dont understand why we are being made to take another test when someone who got their license 1 week before me got thier full license 2 years ago and was just given it. I agree there are a lot of bad drivers around, which is why i said that i think everyone should have to sit some sort of test to renew their license because it can only help make people better drivers.

    As for being scared of what is now my V6 which i drive every day, i admit, i was very timid when i first got my license and i didnt think i would be able to handel it if i was forced to. It was a safty descission on my part not to put myself in a situation that would cause me and others danger. I think i was sensible, but a lot of other P platers out there aren't and do think they are much better than they actually are. If i could have i would have prefered to drive some little hatch back when i first started driving because at least i would have felt a bit more able to handel something small in traffic. So maybe the descission should be taken out of the hands of L/P platers and force them to drive smaller cars!

    And yes, i did avoid main roads for the first 6 months i was driving. If i could take a back road i would, and i think it helped me a lot because i gained confidence much more quickly and was able to handel driving in traffic, driving a V6 car. I dont think one person could say they weren't nervous when they started driving.

    I know most people have sen Deka drive and know how well he handels a car and how safe a driver he is, and i would trust my life in his hands in any driving situation, but i remember when he first got his lisence and drove me around for the first few times, i thought he was going to wet his pants every time. And i'm sure almost everyone else on this board is the same!

    It's a fact, its intimidating driving around for the first 6 months. Restrictions are needed and i applaud them. I know too many young people who have had accidents in their cars due to inexperiance. But saying they shouldnt be driving because they are nervous is just small minded and you obviously dont remember when you were first starting to drive how nerve racking it was.

    The other thing is i'm not that young. I'm 24, i only got my lisence when i was 21, and i think it gave me a hell of a lot more maturity in driving than if i had gotten it at 17, and i think that has also made me a better driver for it. But for just the fact i was nervous for the first 6 months and didnt want to drive a powerful car, i don't think you should have me catching the train for the rest of my life!

    Benny
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  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    Did I read correctly?? Do 'P' plater have to drive UNDER the speed limit. That is the most stupid, utterly riduculous, incredibly dangerous thing I've heard in a while. Only a brain dead pollie could come up with that one.

    There should NEVER be speed restrications on any drivers (or cars towing trailers/caravans). Sure speed can be dangerous, but nowhere near as dangerous as a large DIFFERENCE in speed. Say your only allowed to do 80 or 90km/h. What if you need to drive in a 110km/h zone. Could you see all the interstate semi's sitting 2cm off your bumper, all the brainless d!ckhead in 4wd's overtaking through dips and around corners etc...

    Same thing for towing trailers, 'P' platers MUST have the right to tow trailers (it could be a part of there job) and drive all hours. I used to work graveyard shift when I was on my P's. This would have meant I'd have to throw in my job.

    There's only one way to get experiance, and that's to let them on the roads. However, I believe there should be serious power/weight restrictions on there cars (& bikes, all bringing in the 250cc rule did was put the resale value of RGV250's through the roof. The idea of a learner climbing on one of them is frightful).

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    DoubleChevron:
    However, I believe there should be serious power/weight restrictions on there cars (& bikes, all bringing in the 250cc rule did was put the resale value of RGV250's through the roof. The idea of a learner climbing on one of them is frightful).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    it's true about the bikes but they also stipulate what bikes you are allowed to ride
    there are some very powerful and fast 250's out there and these are not allowed to be riden by people holding L's or P's
    as for the curfew of course there would be some exceptions like there are for people who are under age for P's and are issued with "working" P's to allow them only to drive to and from work untill they are old enough to sit for the real thing
    i have known people to hold working P's at 16 years of age when the system stated you had to be 16 and 9 months to get P's
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  21. #21
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    How are they going to set & then check the power on these vehicles?
    Where I am, the nearest Rolling Road is 1 1/2 hours drive away & with modern techniques of souping cars, who's to know what is & what isn't hotted?
    My suggestion was that no mods apart from cosmetics (can't upset the Rice set now can we) and then perhaps some limitation to a degree on the vehicles engine size; not effective but the logic I've always used was that a car capable of 200 kph is a safer conveyance than say a Korean throwaway with a top capability of say 160 due to improved design, brakes, ABS, steering, suspension etc, all designed to handle high speed.
    The same couldn't be said of the same throwaway if it were modified so it too could do 200+ kph.
    Pugrambo; if you want to PM me your e-mail address, I'll send you a copy of my submission which may clarify the matter in full.
    The big problem here is we have such long distances to cover between major centres & things like curfews, lower speed limits & passenger limitations are a disaster waiting to happen. If I want to catch a bus, I have to drive 6 klms to get to the nearest bus stop which is OK on Tuesday at 9am & returns at 2 pm so tell me how this can work.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger!
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    My L's test was a 20 question multiple choice test, which i held for 9mths, then got my P's having to do a simple 3pt turn, reverse park and hill start. Hey i even improved my chances by doing the test in an AUTO even though i learned on a manual. Pretty easy to get by .... my gf at the time just had to wear a short skirt ... and did not have to even do the reverse park!

    Current testing methods have obviously improved, however increased theory tests rather than practical driving knowledge just doesn't make sense to me ...

    Why can't they introduce the same process for cars as they do for motorcycles. In NSW you have to do a 2 day practical riders ed course before you are eligible to get your L-plate. This covers basic safety, handling etc techniques in a "live" environment?
    ashleyt

    --------
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    1990 205GTI Red - Track Car ("431")

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  23. #23
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by DoubleChevron
    <strong>Did I read correctly?? Do 'P' plater have to drive UNDER the speed limit. That is the most stupid, utterly riduculous, incredibly dangerous thing I've heard in a while.....
    Where have you been? This has been the case in NSW for some 36 or so years! At least on the open highway. 80kmh top speed for P platgers, anywhere... right from the beginning.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    melb
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    Im a Victorian who just got my P-Licence 6 months ago, and i can tell you it's the biggest load of crap bullshit test ever. Any stupid, loser,drop kick, no life 18 year old could get there license and this is why!!! mallet

    Basically all you do i drive around some very quiet surburban street for around 15min or in my case 10 min cause the Testing chick wanted to go for a smoko.

    In this 10min drive, Potential licence gainers come across such nasties as stop signs, traffic lights and encounter the hardest of all driving procedures the 3-point turn.

    If you have survived this you then get to do a multiple choice driving simulation. FOR EXAMPLE-Car approaches traffic lights>>>Light turn amber>> do you- 1-keep driving
    2-slow down
    3-stop
    4-Increase speed
    If you are intelligent enough to pass this you will be awarded to your license.

    I mean this doesnt test anyones ability to control a car, make split second decisions or be a courteous and responsible driver, and as a result you see some shoddy p-plate driver (but at the other end of the scale you do get some top p-plate drivers).

    Basically all id recommend is that they make these test harder as they are fail-proof at the moment, eg Drive in the city or for gods sake at least a parallel park.
    mallet
    P.S-speed limits on p-platers in NSW is ridiculous, im sure Mr "Break promises" Bracks will love to pass that one through parliament one day though.

    deal

  25. #25
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    on one of our trips into sydney my g/f said as we were driving along down parramatta rd that for an L plater to pass a driving test they should be made to go from one end to the other of this road and return without breaking any road rules or causing any road rage
    as a born and raised country girl she couldn't believe how busy thet road is or how it was possible to to survive in that sort of enviroment
    all i could say was it is a pretty easy road so long as you have your witts about you
    but i thought she had the right idea and also knows there is more to driving a car than just sitting behind a wheel of a car and pressing a couple of pedals
    3 x '78 604 SL

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