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  1. #1
    Cal
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    Police State.

    I posted this on Performance forums and thought I might post it here:

    Please don't flame me, because you think it has all been said before.

    Never before have I seen such a large police presence on the roads of Brisbane, as I have today. They are simply everywhere. I have seen 4 actually writing the ticket as I have been driving past. Bikes, cars and cameras hiding in the usual undangerous spots. I haven't even been on the road that much today.

    I got to wondering. When did our police force become a money making organisation, instead of a crime stopping force? Violent crime, vandalism, drug related crime and theft are all on the rise in Australian cities. Meanwhile, our cop's time is being wasted on one of the biggest revenue raising lies this country has ever been fed. It is not fresh news that the over policing of our speed limits is doing nothing at all to reduce our road toll. How has it been possible to brainwash the public into believing that "every k over is a killer", without any direct evidence to back up the claim.

    I am not condoning speeding. I am talking about areas of reduced speed limits and people being booked for 5km\h over the limit in places that are clearly safe for a much greater speed. These are the ideal place for a camera or a radar hidden in the bushes. Hail St and the inner city bypass is a classic example. Most of it is 60km\h. It is also almost a highway with a concrete wall dividing the traffic. It is also 3 lanes wide in each direction. This stretch of road is a real favourite. To do 60, you must be hard on the brakes down the hill towards Coronation Drive. It is ludicrous. Another is coming out of the 110 zones and into the 100 zones on the way to both the Gold and Sunshine coasts. What has changed about the road or the conditions? Nothing, except the speed limit. Hey, why not stick a camera 50m past the 100 sign and make a fortune out of all the poor pricks who miss seeing the sign.

    I'm sure I'm not the only person in Australia who is sick of paying through the nose, for being a motorist. When will something be done about this disgusting and blatant lie we have been sold? The sooner we educate people about road safety and car control, the sooner people will stop dying.

    Cheers,

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  2. #2
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    here here Y_Y, if they want to raise revenue get drink drivers, they are dangerous
    Y^O^Y Banzai

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Cal,

    do I get this right, your complaining about a police presense on the road I reckon it's great if there's a police presence. Notice how careful people drive when there's a marked police car in the vicinity?? Also I've got nothing against being pulled over and booked for speeding (within reason of course). At least they slowed you down, if you got a fine in the mail 6weeks later your going to be really p!$$ed off.

    I've just got back from Brisbane and I thought the Ballarat drivers were bad, but they take the cake up there. I'd rather drive through Melbourne peak hour traffic anyday than light traffic in brisbane. Basicly most of the people I saw couldn't drive for sh!+. Most prevelant was the on ramps on the freeways, I lost count of how many times people would swerve from behind me when an on-ramp was coming up and sit beside the caravan (that way I'd have to slow down to let the merging cars in). This ISN'T the way it's done, I ALWAYS merge to the inside lane to let the merging traffic in, however most cars appeared to do there best to block you. It got to the stage where I'd turn the indicators on, if the @$$holes didn't get out of my way I'd just swing across making them stamp on the brakes.

    Mind you they left me with no other choice most time (I was keeping up with the traffic flow).

    The best one was traffic was comming down an on ramp, a bmw that'd been following for ages sees a car coming down the onramp swerves out even though I'm indicating to move into the next lane and sits beside the caravan. I start to brake hard as for some reason all the idiots there try to merge at 75km/h into 100-110 km/h traffic.
    Next thing the guy merging PROPS !!! Comes to a complete bloody stop half off the on ramp half off it eek! eek! That's when I did my block, after that anyone deliberatly sitting beside the caravan so I couldn't merge got about 5seconds warning with the indicators, if they didn't move to allow me across I just merged ...

    It was the next day I realised why poeple were merging at about 75km/h into 110km/h traffic. I was crusing down an on ramp and it suddenly dawned on me I was about to be ON the freeway, I punched it really hard in 3rd using full boost to hit the freeway speed limit before the end of the ramp and merged, I watched in the mirrors, most poeple could only get upto about 85km/h by the end of the on-ramp. Who the hell designed the freeways up there mallet mallet
    They should be bloody shot for that effort.

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  4. #4
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    Cal,

    There's a lot who probably think I'm just a silly old $#!+ stirrer when I start ripping it up these politicians on an almost daily basis; I wish I didn't have to because the same person doing all the screaming ends up being ineffective "It's HIM again" type of attitude!! moon
    This speed thing has a twofold purpose; it doesn't take any effort to enforce, too many coppers basically are lazy from the top down, this makes it "appear to be doing something" and figures can be manipulated to prove they are doing something constructive towards the road toll. In fact I believe they are almost manipulating road deaths to suit their own purposes which of course is balancing the budget.
    What is speeding? Coming back from Maleny the other week, I was speeding at about 70 KPH in a 110KPH area, so I slowed down; headlights in my eyes, bad road surface & traffic made it a dangerous situation, so 110 wasn't appropriate. Later on I found myself doing 80KPH in an open road well lit no traffic ituation but had to slow to 60 because the sign said so. Now had I hit something in the 110 area, according to these cretins, I wouldn't be speeding yet in the other area I would have been, so common sense, adequate training & experience is what can govern "speed" not a whalloper hiding behind a tree or, as I witnessed a few months back, jumping across two lanes of traffic (heavy) to stop the leading car in the right hand lane & order him to pull over to the kerb across the face of following traffic; now THAT's Road Safety!! roll_lau roll_lau

    The only way anything will change is to scream loud & hard; write to papers, Politicians etc & give them the message that if they don't getit together, they're gunna be out of a job.
    I put my pen where my mouth is; read the feedback in the Courier Mail's website & you'll see what I mean mallet

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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! glenn shaw's Avatar
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    i've got no problem with marked police vehicles on the beat but some of this stealth stuff is bloody ridiculous.

    take in point while i was up at cit-in, or just afterwards. we were cruising toward maroochydore and seen a car pulled over by a cop in an unmarked 4wd pathfinder or similar WITH a ladder on the roof racks! not much of a sporting chance there eh?

    i'll be the first to admit that the drivers on the roads up there were some of the worst we have ever shared a road with. indicators? what are they for, must be optional extras on the sunshine state cars! ah well.....

    cheers
    glenn.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    having driven in most states here, across Asia, Europe and the US i'd have to say there are bad (ignorant) drivers pretty much everywhere!

    I live in Sydney (inner city) and driving to and from work every day must take 5mins off my life just due to the stress. Most of my driving enjoyment is wasted on worrying about other drivers actions ....

    As for the speed camera's as a revenue raising measure .... i'd have to agree. Having never previously had a driving ofference or speed fine in 15 years of driving, the last 12 months has seen me lose 10 points (out of 12) from speed cameras ..... all offences were within 5kph of the limit entering 60km/h zones!!!

    Something is not right here.
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
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    Violent crime, vandalism, drug related crime and theft are all on the rise in Australian cities.
    Er, actually Cal, it isn't. Despite what you are likely to hear from the shock jocks its falling in all of these categories at present.

    Cheers

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  8. #8
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    Anyway, that seems to be the case in Victoria according to the latest report.
    <a href="http://heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,6362443%255E2862,00.html" target="_blank">Crime Rates Plummeting</a>

    Strangely this article comes from the Herald Sun, out of all publications! (Melbourne's tabloid).

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  9. #9
    Cal
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    Rod Hagen:
    Violent crime, vandalism, drug related crime and theft are all on the rise in Australian cities.
    Er, actually Cal, it isn't. Despite what you are likely to hear from the shock jocks its falling in all of these categories at present.

    Cheers

    Rod
    It seems I might be wrong on that point. It does however seem to be that that nature of the crimes is more heinous than in the past. Anyway, that is a separate issue. I did however use the quoted statment as part of my original argument. Doesn't really change my point about revenue raising though.

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  10. #10
    UFO
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    Deb and I second the observation about Qld drivers! We were nearly wiped out this afternoon by an old fart in a dunnydore who pulled out in front of us on our way into Airley Beach. We were coming down a hill (Deb driving) and had the lights on, doing slightly less than the 100 km/h for the area and he just drifts out of the side road and makes this vague move towards a left lane that ended just at the intersection.

    We both went very quiet as Deb braked very firmly and veered to the left to avoid hitting him. Bloody good effort on Deb's part. The guy about 100m behind us had to take the opposite tack and go right and accelerate around. If he had been much closer we all would be in hospital by now.

    The old fart continued on his merry way doing no more than 50 in a 100 zone. But by god, he wasn't going to get booked for speeding the great f^%$wit! Deb wanted to follow him till he stopped and remind him of what a shithouse driver he is. I talked some sense and calm into her. She is now down in the pool and spa at the motel and seems to be much better. A scotch when she gets back to the room should sort her out!

    Qld drivers love to admire Citroens I notice - especially from the rear. They don't seem to be able to get close enough even if you are doing the limit! Indicators? What the hell are they?

    I note that the Qld Police Union has advised the Govt that if they continue on this speed camera thing they will take industrial action as they are getting fed up with being seen as revenue raisers. tongue Hmmmmmm.....

    Let's wait and see.
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  11. #11
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Two points Mr UFO:
    Fistly the coppers are threatening industrial action mainly because Herr Mc Grady and Herr Bredhauer have decreed that they would like to put civilians behind the speed cameras. If you've ever dealt with Queensland Transport you'd have to know what a scarey thought that is; a bunch who couldn't get a job doing anything important, given a uniform & a bit of authority are quite a sight to behold. In the UK commonly known as "jobsworth." deal
    Secondly, before all you NSW and Victorian drivers get too sanctamonious about the standard of drivers in Queensland, don't lose sight of the fact that there's probably more NSW & Vic drivers in Queensland than in your own home states and as a former Driving School owner in Surfers Paradise I have seen a good proportion from all round & in all honesty they aren't any worse than your lot. As an example I followed 2 vehicles into my street today; one was a silver/grey Magna which proceeded to chuck a left as though stopping which was followed by a U turn straight in front of me and as I swerved to the left to avoid her the other car a White Jackeroo in the 2 car convoy also swung straight around neither indicated nor looked, both had Vic plates. Living in Tourist destinations as I have for the past 30 years, I think I've seen enough of drivers from all states to not generalise on their capabilities. When this happened, it was the third incident involving interstate cars diving out or turning without indicating in about 10 klms & I thought as I drove up the driveway that I couldn't believe what I was seeing earlier with this thread. moon
    But with 2500 a month moving to Queensland, chances are you may have been waving a fist at a fellow NSWelshman. mallet
    But Pleeeeze! don't use thai as a platform to start a Paroachial world war mallet head_ban

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    I guess I think that there are so many things that Police should be doing differently. Point taken they are important and we rely on them a great deal, but 5 kph discretions are hardly as bad as some of the nutso driving I think we all see everyday. I occaisionally do something wrong, but it is usually accidental. alot of the people driving these LandRovers and suchlike do it because that is how they drive. I say we raise the police salary, ont the express condition that they are nice when they deal with people. I mean that makes the difference between policed, and police States!! ^^ just keep them away from me, because being a young driver they go to town with me. cry
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    I'm sorry, but it seems the old saying "You can please some of the people some of the time" is alive and well. In victoria, they privatised the car mounted speed cameras, freeing up police officers to do more pro-actve tasks. What happened? The same tossers that complained about cops wasting time at speed cameras now whinged even more that they weren't being booked by cops. You dont need to be a rocket scientist to set-up a speed camera, and read a newspaper for a few hours. Stop whinging guys, the speed cameras are here to stay, the unmarked cars are here to stay, and the old saying "if you aint doin anything wrong, then you won't get in trouble" still applies.

  14. #14
    XTC
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    mistareno:
    and the old saying "if you aint doin anything wrong, then you won't get in trouble" still applies.
    Strictly speaking that's right, the speed limit is the speed limit (not the limit plus some). You wouldn't try to put 1.1 ltrs into a container that only holds 1.0 ltr - on the same line then, following ADRs on speedo's built, the container should be 1.0ltr +- 10% So who could blame you. AND that's the problem - the accuracy of speedo's is so variable (within ADRs) that a certain level of "error" should be tolerable ... this 3kph is a joke. I feel sorry for you Vic guys.

    And the old saying "if you aint doin anything wrong, then you won't get in trouble" still applies. .... has taken quite a battering lately when you look at the dozen and dozens of named corrupt police officers in the WA police corruption enquiry . We are looking at 100's of cases that now require re-investigation.

    It's funny how those that preach clean living, law abidance, and every other virtue under the sun are often found to be the worst offenders. No one should get automatic trust, as far as I'm concerned you have to earn it (and I have earn in in your eyes too).

    Maybe some genuine public consultation on these matters may make people feel alot better about some of the bureaucratic decisions that "big brother" is making for us. Fines just don't seem to be stopping Vics from speeding (or losing their lives on long weekends).

    2_cents

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  15. #15
    UFO
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    CAUTION - I can see that whole everyone versus the police argument starting again - Let's not go there please mallet Pick on the politicians and media that beat these issues up, not on the people whose (difficult) job it is to enforce the government policies.

    Alan. I do agree with you about the southerners moving north. Maybe that is why we think our drivers are getting better - we have sent all the crappy ones north! whistle dance
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  16. #16
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    [quote]XTC206:
    Fines just don't seem to be stopping Vics from speeding (or losing their lives on long weekends).

    2_cents

    XTC206
    They're too busy studying their speedos to see the cars & pedestrians ahead.
    If a couple of politicians in marginal seats were to be voted out on this revenue raising scam, watch how quick they'd change policy.
    Mistereno, methinks you've been listening to copper propaganda too long if you reckon "if you ain't doin' anything wrong you won't get into trouble" particularly after you just told us about your femme friend with a bad dose of Industrial Strength PMT. mallet

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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    Here in Tasmania speed cameras were introduced with the undertaking that they were to be used on designated Black Spots, where more than one fatal accident had occurred in the past few years. The public did not mind this at all, in fact there was wide support.
    This situation did not last very long, however, as the speed cameras soon began to leave the black spots in droves and take up residence on good stretches of road with ridiculously low speed limits.
    I believe that you should be pulled over at the scene and issued with a ticket on the spot, not have a ticket pop up in the mail 6 weeks later. If you are going to defend the ticket, you need to know when you were booked. That said, I have no problem with speed cameras on black spots. There are a few places where many accidents have occured, or where near misses are commonplace, that are not policed by speed cameras. Most of them prefer to hide behind some bushes on a straight, flat, open stretch of road.
    I might also add that I have never been booked for speeding, and I make a point of not exceeding the speed limit, but on more than one occaision, I have gone over the limit for a few seconds after cresting a hill etc., and once or twice I have failed to notice a change in speed limit where I was familiar with the limit zones and had no need to look at the sign.
    I also believe that no speeding fines should be issued within 200m of a change in speed zones.
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts HONG KONG PUGGY's Avatar
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    Hey you lot.....
    Lay of us QLD drivers....most of the bad ones are probably "new" queenslanders whistle .....the latest relaesed figure says that there is a migration rate of about 1000 a week TO QLD......Should check their driving at tweed Heads.... moon
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  19. #19
    Local Tyrant gibgib's Avatar
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    I would have to agree that Queenslanders are shocking drivers. Having to drive around all day in the traffic you get a good feel for things.

    The inner city northern suburbs are the worst for driving, probably because the roads can't cope. I see people doing very stupid things just to get one car length in front.

    I sit on the speed limit nearly all the time but this is too slow for 80% of other road users who overtake me at the first opportunity. Perhaps it's my puny van appearance from the rear or something as it doesn't happen nearly as much when I'm in the Pug.

    Some of the roads I stay clear of near any peak hour are definately Waterworks Road, Coronation Drive & Jubilee Tce/ Boundary Rd (Bardon area).

    When I first moved back here I was amazed how courteous people were on the roads. For some reason this courtesy has faded & I think the trigger may have been a wet week we had in early April (or my puny van )where everyday peak hour was 10 times worse (thanks to accidents from tailgaters).

    Driving in Brisbane is still a far better experience compared to driving in Sydney. I used to probably visit every suburb in Sydney once every 2 weeks, anywhere from Dee Why to Kearns/ Campbelltown, then Penrith. With Sydney there's not just different flavours of drivers, there are suburbs of "danger" at night. I surely don't miss that. Can't say I know of any dangerous suburbs up here.

    Just my 2_cents

  20. #20
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    Well, well, well...

    I guess I don't have to repeat myself. I've said it all before, except that I've never mentioned that Queensland drivers haven't got the faintest idea of how to merge!

    Bring back prima facie speed limits and reasonable policing and the problems will abate.

  21. #21
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    [quote]Alan S:
    XTC206:
    Fines just don't seem to be stopping Vics from speeding (or losing their lives on long weekends).

    2_cents

    XTC206
    They're too busy studying their speedos to see the cars & pedestrians ahead.
    If a couple of politicians in marginal seats were to be voted out on this revenue raising scam, watch how quick they'd change policy.
    Mistereno, methinks you've been listening to copper propaganda too long if you reckon "if you ain't doin' anything wrong you won't get into trouble" particularly after you just told us about your femme friend with a bad dose of Industrial Strength PMT. mallet

    Alan S
    What you fail to realise is that 100 kph is the absolute maximum speed. This doesn't mean that you have to stay at exactly 100kph. If you cruised along at 90-95 kph in a 100 zone you wouldn't have to be looking at your speedo all the time (regardless of the 10%+/- on the speedo).
    And as for the female PMS problem from the other post, the driver had legally done something wrong, it's just that I would have used my discretion on the matter, she didn't.

  22. #22
    XTC
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    mistareno:
    What you fail to realise is that 100 kph is the absolute maximum speed. This doesn't mean that you have to stay at exactly 100kph. If you cruised along at 90-95 kph in a 100 zone you wouldn't have to be looking at your speedo all the time (regardless of the 10%+/- on the speedo).
    You're 100% right, but if I had just a dollar for every D'Head tailgater eek! , that either honked, flashed and just about ran me off the road for doing 5-10kph under the limit I'd be able to pay my rego each year with it ... now it's 50kph in all unsigned streets the situation got worse ... I'm gonna rig a camera to the back of the Pug to take photo's soon ... what makes it worse is 90% of cars probably don't have ABS. People now think that 1/2 a car length space is enough to change lanes into (what ever happened to the 2 second gap idea). What makes it worse is that insurance companies are ALLOWED to discriminate - it was not my fault that when in my early 20's that other stupid drivers crashed, my female friends had more accidents and yet paid lower premiums !!! My claim rate 0% - points off the licence 0 in 15 years - means squat though.

    What we need is education - a licence is a privilege and not a right 2_cents , people seem to have lost focus on this. Tests every 5 years up to 65 - test every year after that - written and practical - I'd vote for that - my 87YO grandfather was driving when he should never have been (somehow he managed to pass tests).

    XTC206
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  23. #23
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Prima facie limits would eliminate that problem...

    The loss in revenue would reduce traffic density...

    People would no longer feel so compelled to prevent overtaking by illegally speeding up when someone came to overtake them...

  24. #24
    Cal
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    mistareno:
    Stop whinging guys, the speed cameras are here to stay, the unmarked cars are here to stay, and the old saying "if you aint doin anything wrong, then you won't get in trouble" still applies.
    You have got to be kidding me! I was going to say that the police are only doing the job they are paid to do. But, do they hammer that sort of high school disciplinary rhetoric into you guys on a daily basis? The problem is not whether I am doing something wrong or not. The problem is, have we been sold a load of horse shit about reduction in road tolls being the result of more cameras and radars? The statistics sure as hell say so. You are probably correct though. They are here to stay because the money being generated is great enough to be able to afford TV ads to brainwash Joe public into believing a lie.

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  25. #25
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    Cal:
    mistareno:
    Stop whinging guys, the speed cameras are here to stay, the unmarked cars are here to stay, and the old saying "if you aint doin anything wrong, then you won't get in trouble" still applies.
    You have got to be kidding me! I was going to say that the police are only doing the job they are paid to do. But, do they hammer that sort of high school disciplinary rhetoric into you guys on a daily basis? The problem is not whether I am doing something wrong or not. The problem is, have we been sold a load of horse shit about reduction in road tolls being the result of more cameras and radars? The statistics sure as hell say so. You are probably correct though. They are here to stay because the money being generated is great enough to be able to afford TV ads to brainwash Joe public into believing a lie.

    Cal.
    Thats pretty much the whinging I was talking about.

    I can get done by cameras too, but I need my licence for my job so I have had to change my driving habits. I dont whinge about it, even though I THINK that I would be safer travelling at a higher sped than the limit set on some occasions. The old "lowest common denominator" principal reigns supreme and unfortunately always will.

    If nobody sped, the revenue would fall on it's arse, the road toll would fall, and there would be no justiication for all the TV ads...

    Oh, by the way, speed does kill, it's simple physics......Have you heard of inertia????

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