4WD safety issue continues
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    4WD safety issue continues

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  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, we don't get that show where I am.
    Could I suggest however some of you guys do as I have if you feel as strong as I do about it; take it to the top of your respective State Transport Departments & stir like shit about it.
    I've at last started getting it into the arena with Queensland Transport by hitting the head of the Department & not ranting & raving but continuosly asking why they are not doing anything about it.
    I was on radio the other day in reference to the new proposed Traffic regulations & I've rung it into that debate too. It's started to get them looking over their shoulders because I'm slowly beginning to get a bit of support. Tell 'em how much money they're missing in taxes, higher registration costs to compensate for road damage & the potential for their "Empire Builders" to increase the size of their respective empires by enforcing a new drivers licence test on wank tankers.
    You have to remember they are Politicians who can't think for themselves so someone is paid to do it for them. The prospect of losing the big paying job is also helping to snap them back to reality.

    Alan S mallet
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Great idea Alan Ill approach the relevant people and suggest that all people driving cars over 15 years old pay extra for registration as the Government is missing out on lots of taxes when they dont buy a new car. This sort of mentality you are advocating is crazy. Leave people to choose their means of transport. If they have a dream of using their shiny toorak tractor for the big escape around Australia, that is good, at least they have a dream. The likely hood of them doing it maybe small, but what gives you or anyone else the right to take away someones dream. If they waste so much fuel then the owners are already paying a tax premium. It would be a good idea if people let the 4WD bashing go so their narrowmindedness is not displayed quite so publicly.
    Neil
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  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I'm doing something positive about it other than screaming into the air like many more;
    I'm not the only one in the world that's woken up to the scams and dangers associated with these things and obviously unlike your good self, I have to witness the results of it every day almost.
    By the way, what positive pro-active steps are you doing towards road safety apart from slagging off at anyone who does??? moon moon moon mallet
    Let me guess; you're a Public Servant?? deal deal
    roll_lau

    Alan S
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    RRRRRRRRR ding have another guess.
    Neil
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  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    I'm with you both, I don't for a minute think 4wds should be 'banned' or anything stupid. Tax them at the same rate as everything else (infact they should be treated as a medium rigid truck in taxation & insurance/registration, as that's what they are). Certainly I'm not for ANYTHING being banned in anyway. First them, then there'll be an outcry about sports cars "cos they go to fast" so they'll be next. Who knows someones kid who's in the public eye could be run-over by a Citroen in the future. They'll start screaming "get rid of all hydraulic cars, there a dangerous menace ... etc...).

    My opinion is the same for Dogs, they are trying to get Pit Bulls outlawed (which I think is a good thing), I'm not going to actively protest for it EVER though. What's next?? Rotties?, then German Shepards, maybe even blue healers ... Once you start the trend of 'banning' ....

    What's the answer then Stuffed in I know

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: You see we have to cater for the narrow minded [email protected] in the community, regardless of if they want to drive a 3 tonne truck around. Obviously we aren't defecient in certain areas like they are (and there trying to make up for it roll_lau roll_lau )

    <small>[ 27 July 2003, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: DoubleChevron ]</small>
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    My opinion is the same for Dogs, they are trying to get Pit Bulls outlawed (which I think is a good thing), I'm not going to actively protest for it EVER though. What's next?? Rotties?, then German Shepards, maybe even blue healers ... Once you start the trend of 'banning' ....
    To a very large degree it is the same with the dogs as the cars. They are a product of their owners. A friend of mine had a Doberman, funniest thing I remember is the dog baled up in the bathroom by another friends cat. It is more the learning than the breed. Although they have certain inbuilt traits kindness to the animal will tend to have the animal reciprocate. Cruel behaviour will have the animal return visious behaviors. Much the same the vehicle is not the problem it is the education level (in terms of driving) of the owner that is the problem.
    Neil
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  8. #8
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    With respect to the 4WD debate, I think their tax rate needs to be changed.

    They should certainly not be banned or anything like that, but I think its unfair that non 4WD imports incur a much higher duty than 4WD ones.

    If government research proves that 4WD's do increase general safety/environmental risks, then maybe it would be appropriate to tax 4WD's more than cars, such that the marginal social cost of 4WD's is brought into line with the marginal social benefit.

    Simple economics.

    The only reason they are taxed less in the first place is because of farmers, a political decision. But I doubt it would be THAT hard to find a way to exempt them from the tax increases, not that I think farmers ought to be favoured in such a way anyway tho.
    Tim

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  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I'm not sure that the tax thing isn't just a furphie on things like cruisers etc, in any case the $ involved are pretty much immaterial, if you are paying out 60 grand what's another few grand anyhow. Even more the case with the Torak Taxi set.

    I agree entirely with Neil, there are plenty of very dangerous Hyundais out there in the hands of idiots!! I doubt the 4WDs have more than their proportionate share, it's just that you notice them more.

  10. #10
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    Well, you do the maths and work out how much the cars should be taxed to have the desired outcome (100% if needs be). Just need to get your demand curve elasticities right to work it out.

    Wether 4WD's are dangerous or not is the first point that needs to be addressed, I agree. Thats why before any economic intervention into the market is taken, the effects of 4WD's on the population must be researched. And acted upon.
    Tim

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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    The simple way to increase the tax rate without hurting farmers is not to increase it on 4x4 utes. They are the ones the farmers use for work vehicles, and they are not very fashionable as Toorak Taxis. Having said that, there are many people who have a legitimat need for one. Most other alternatives cannot tow as much as a 4x4 for example. This is relevant if you have a reasonable size boat or a horse trailer. Also if you tow cars regularly. I would much rather drive my Pug than a 4x4 every day, but I would rather a 4x4 for towing.
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    hmmmm....i m sorry guys...am i missing something here.....HANDS UP those who understand the SIMPLE physics that occur during an accident (lets say head-on)between a hyndai excell (driven by an idiot) and a JEEP cherokee (also driven by an idiot)........hmmm jeez....the hyndai airbags do NOT deploy since during heavy breaking the little excell dives so much that the jeep IMPACTS at WINDSCREEN LEVEL...ughhhhh....still dont understand.....the ARGUMENT is about the fact that these VEHICLES are PHYSICALLY unfriendly to other standard vehicles (not light truck chassis style)during an accident weather the cars are driven by proffesional drivers or total idiots like me....its seems like some people will never agree or understand ,maybe because of stupidity, ignorance or hidden agendas....
    it ll be interesting what kind of fact/propaganda the show delivers remebering that soon the AUSSIES will attack the 4x4 market with the homegrown variety....

    cheers
    dino

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Pugnut403's Avatar
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    At least the Cross8 is sedan height.
    Pugs Rule!

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