Non Standard French Cylinder Configurations
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 37
  1. #1
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355

    Non Standard French Cylinder Configurations

    The topic is a bit of a handful, but I was just wondering, why is it that the French have never done a 5 cylinder (to my knowledge - I'm only familiar with the new cars)?

    5 cylinder engines have never been the norm, and French manufacturers have always been different. I can certainly see the advantages in a 5 cylinder engine as well.

    Any other strange configs? Did Citroen ever try to do something like a V7? A W3? A W9? An X4?

    The French are generally quite distinctive and unique with most parts of their cars, but when it comes to engines, they're a bit more mainstream, even logical. I guess the engine bay layout of the 505 GTi 2.2 would be an exception

    Advertisement


    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    3,298
    Im sure both Renault and Alfa did V configured 3-CYlinder engines and Renault did a multi valve head way back i its first F1 days.. also im sure you know about Renault and Turbo.... they are father and son..
    BUT i guess all that dosn't answer your question...sorry.
    Xq
    ... ptui!

  3. #3
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355
    Thats ok

    I thought SAAB were the pioneers of Turbo? They had the first one for day to day use back in 1976.

    Has turbo become the estranged son of Renault, because they're hardly around now - there aren't any turbo petrol models now (diesel's don't count, hardly anyone sells diesels without turbos now).

    That raises another point - why have the French gone cold on petrol turbos. The last model I know that had one was the 406, but otherwise, there's been nothing. Certainly turbos could overcome some of the space problems in the latest models (eg. C3, doesn't look like you can fit anything that large in there).

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Sydney, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    3,619
    Justin,
    Yes, Renault invented the turbo. Haven't you heard them mention it in their Scenic TV ads? They patented the first turbo charger in 1902.

    Here it is mentioned briefly: <a href="http://www.renault.com/gb/decouverte/saga_p1.htm" target="_blank">http://www.renault.com/gb/decouverte/saga_p1.htm</a> - scroll down to 'Rapid Growth'

    I'm sure it's spoken about better somewhere, but that was 30 seconds of googling to find that answer!

    As for Petrol turbos - I have read somewhere the Megane II has a 2L turbo petrol coming. I want one!

    Derek.
    p.s. love the 206SW on this month's calendar I could handle one of those too.

  5. #5
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355
    Interesting, I guess SAAB's claim to fame is that they were the first to use it in a mainstream car? Their entire engine range has been all turbos for a few years now.

    It almost seems as if Renault's been sleeping at the wheel regarding turbos in recent years. I think turbos are great.

    I'm sure that 206 SW wouldn't mind a turbo

    Cheers,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    melbourne
    Posts
    4,545
    in regards to cylinder conigs....i thought the ODD numbered configurations created UNbalanced motors...i think mitsubitshi had a pattent going that they were selling ....i think the volvo carries the mitsubitshi technology in that respect (m not 100% sure)...i think thats why so many v engines can develop so much power and stay stable...ei balanced...its all about keeping the refinement factor...i think i ve just said i think once 2 many times....one could come across as being uneducated and uncultured very easily sometimes ...i think...

    cheers
    dino...therefore i m...

  7. #7
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223
    Trucks had them for years before cars...

    And Porsche did an awful lot of the preparatory work for racing, they may have also beaten SAAB to the road with them, but I'm not sure.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    770

    Default

    dino:
    in regards to cylinder conigs....i thought the ODD numbered configurations created UNbalanced motors...i think mitsubitshi had a pattent going that they were selling ....i think the volvo carries the mitsubitshi technology in that respect (m not 100% sure)...i think thats why so many v engines can develop so much power and stay stable...ei balanced...its all about keeping the refinement factor...i think i ve just said i think once 2 many times....one could come across as being uneducated and uncultured very easily sometimes ...i think...

    cheers
    dino...therefore i m...
    Mitsubishi's counter-rotating balance shafts you mean?

    They use them to keep large 4cyl engines smooth.....Porsche licensed balance shafts from mitsubishi for their 4cyl cars ie 944s, 968s
    ________
    Iolite manual
    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 03:55 AM.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! Paul Smith's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Camperdown, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    624
    And they ripped off the idea from Frederick Lanchester who invented it in 1907! :p

    <a href="http://www.clarks-garage.com/shop-manual/eng-07.htm" target="_blank">Balance shaft history</a>

    Paul
    Paul Smith

    1974 DS23 EFI BW Auto
    1974 G Special 1220


    http://www.simplicitas.com.au

  10. #10
    VIP Sponsor
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Posts
    9,137
    The Chevrolet Corvair was the first turbo charged car for sale to the public and was produced in the early 1960s.
    Graham Wallis

  11. #11
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223
    Thanks Graham, I was sure I was forgetting something...

    The Corvair was offered with a turbo option as early as 1962. Neat cars the Corvairs became before that idiot Nader cut them off at the knees.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    770

    Default

    Ray Bell:
    Thanks Graham, I was sure I was forgetting something...

    The Corvair was offered with a turbo option as early as 1962. Neat cars the Corvairs became before that idiot Nader cut them off at the knees.
    Their double jointed knees

    There are some directions and angles rear wheels really shouldn't move much

    otherwise though....the corvair was an interesting design.....but so was the Tucker i guess
    ________
    Julianos69 live
    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 03:56 AM.

  13. #13
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Burpengary and Murrumburrah, Qld and NSW
    Posts
    9,223
    Note that I said 'what they became'?

    Prior to 1964, they had swing axles at the rear just like the seven million VWs that had been built to that time.

    The later suspension was similar to Corvettes and Jaguars.

    Nader was a fool...

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Jez 405's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    542
    Ray Bell:


    Nader was a fool...
    Here's to that. cheers!
    1987 Peugeot 205 GTI S1
    1996 Jaguar XJR X300
    1991 Honda VT250 Spada
    1992 Peugeot 405 S (R.I.P. 31/07/2005)

  15. #15
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355
    dino:
    in regards to cylinder conigs....i thought the ODD numbered configurations created UNbalanced motors...i think mitsubitshi had a pattent going that they were selling ....i think the volvo carries the mitsubitshi technology in that respect (m not 100% sure)...i think thats why so many v engines can develop so much power and stay stable...ei balanced...its all about keeping the refinement factor...i think i ve just said i think once 2 many times....one could come across as being uneducated and uncultured very easily sometimes ...i think...

    cheers
    dino...therefore i m...
    Volvo's modular engines actually had some development assistance from Porsche with the 2.9 I6 in the 960 back in 1990. These engines were all revised after the launch of the first P2 car, the S80.

    There's no doubting that 5 cylinder engines are very distinctive - they seem like a blend between a 6's refinement and a 4's economy. I actually read that 5 cylinder engines were fairly well balanced, they seem smoother than most 4s. They also have a sporty growl which beats any 4cyl hands down, and even some 6s (depends on what type of sporty you like I guess). You certainly can't accuse them of lacking aural emotiveness.

    The only engine used in a Volvo with Mitsubishi technology is the 1.8 GDi (direct injection petrol) used in S/V40 models sold in Europe.

    Regards,

    Justin

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    770

    Default

    Pug307:
    dino:
    in regards to cylinder conigs....i thought the ODD numbered configurations created UNbalanced motors...i think mitsubitshi had a pattent going that they were selling ....i think the volvo carries the mitsubitshi technology in that respect (m not 100% sure)...i think thats why so many v engines can develop so much power and stay stable...ei balanced...its all about keeping the refinement factor...i think i ve just said i think once 2 many times....one could come across as being uneducated and uncultured very easily sometimes ...i think...

    cheers
    dino...therefore i m...
    Volvo's modular engines actually had some development assistance from Porsche with the 2.9 I6 in the 960 back in 1990. These engines were all revised after the launch of the first P2 car, the S80.

    There's no doubting that 5 cylinder engines are very distinctive - they seem like a blend between a 6's refinement and a 4's economy. I actually read that 5 cylinder engines were fairly well balanced, they seem smoother than most 4s. They also have a sporty growl which beats any 4cyl hands down, and even some 6s (depends on what type of sporty you like I guess). You certainly can't accuse them of lacking aural emotiveness.

    The only engine used in a Volvo with Mitsubishi technology is the 1.8 GDi (direct injection petrol) used in S/V40 models sold in Europe.

    Regards,

    Justin
    I remember Audi 5cyl engines being more gutsy than the volvo offerings (might have just been the cars they were in tongue ).........

    lol, what's with the current volvo fetish anyway justin?

    you know, you could probably trade the 307 in on a clapped out turbo 850 whip roll_lau
    ________
    Park Royal 3 Condo
    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 03:56 AM.

  17. #17
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    4,355
    Yeah?

    Even the base Volvo 5 cylinder units made more power per litre than the Audi units we had here. I'm guessing you drove an Audi 90, which is actually a little closer to a 307 than an 850 in size, not to mention 200kg lighter.

    All this talk reminds me of the three shortcomings of the 307:

    1. Power (think an 850 is slow - compare it to an equivalent 4oh or 5oh something)

    2. Quality (I didn't plan on knowing everyone at Regans by first name so soon )

    3. Audio (little wonder blown, buzzing speakers are such a common fault- what, do they make the cones out of tissue paper?).

    I was brought up on a diet of Volvos Having said that, I've had an interest in Peugeots for at least 10 years, but a much stronger one in recent years. They've certainly got their strong points for sure, such as the chassis and value for money.

    Seeing the 307 has been their multiplexing guinea pig (looks like practise on the XM counted for nothing) and the fact the perceived quality in the 307 has been improved over previous models, things look brighter for the 207 in that department.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    770

    Default

    Pug307:
    Yeah?

    Even the base Volvo 5 cylinder units made more power per litre than the Audi units we had here. I'm guessing you drove an Audi 90, which is actually a little closer to a 307 than an 850 in size, not to mention 200kg lighter.

    All this talk reminds me of the three shortcomings of the 307:

    1. Power (think an 850 is slow - compare it to an equivalent 4oh or 5oh something)

    2. Quality (I didn't plan on knowing everyone at Regans by first name so soon )

    3. Audio (little wonder blown, buzzing speakers are such a common fault- what, do they make the cones out of tissue paper?).

    I was brought up on a diet of Volvos Having said that, I've had an interest in Peugeots for at least 10 years, but a much stronger one in recent years. They've certainly got their strong points for sure, such as the chassis and value for money.

    Seeing the 307 has been their multiplexing guinea pig (looks like practise on the XM counted for nothing) and the fact the perceived quality in the 307 has been improved over previous models, things look brighter for the 207 in that department.
    Being a driver of a few french cars by now you should realise.....power per litre isn't always indicative of the car's performance or engine's behavior on the road

    I've driven a handful 5cyl audis......i liked the early 100s for their guts....you hopped in expecting 4cyl performance or torqueless small 6 performance (like many small 6s feel unfortunately).....and you got a rorty, rough as guts engine that made the 100 hammer for what it was .....didn't think the car was amazing, or the engine for that matter (too harsh).....but it was a pleasent surpise

    The 90s engine was a lil more dull in the visceral sense and the 90 was a bit noseheavy.......the 200s went well on boost....

    i didn't think the 850 was all that gutless (it was heavy though)....i just think in comparison to the audi engines, volvo got the best of the 4cyl side rather than the 6cyl

    I'm just talking subjective "feel" here not figures....i'd forgotten to take my stopwatch and G-tech
    ________
    Live Sex
    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 03:57 AM.

  19. #19
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,703
    Pug307:
    Interesting, I guess SAAB's claim to fame is that they were the first to use it in a mainstream car? Their entire engine range has been all turbos for a few years now.

    It almost seems as if Renault's been sleeping at the wheel regarding turbos in recent years. I think turbos are great.

    I'm sure that 206 SW wouldn't mind a turbo

    Justin
    Expensive to replace, those S**B turbos! And they need it doing too judging from friend's experience.

    I understand that diesel turbos don't get anthing like as hot as petrol turbos - could it be that they are acceptably reliable on diesel engines and that petrol turbos simply don't last as long? Or have modern injection/ignition systems cut away the advantage of a mild boost?

    Cheers,

    JohnW
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    2,511
    DTwo:
    [QBBeing a driver of a few french cars by now you should realise.....power per litre isn't always indicative of the car's performance or engine's behavior on the road

    I've driven a handful 5cyl audis......i liked the early 100s for their guts....you hopped in expecting 4cyl performance or torqueless small 6 performance (like many small 6s feel unfortunately).....and you got a rorty, rough as guts engine that made the 100 hammer for what it was .....didn't think the car was amazing, or the engine for that matter (too harsh).....but it was a pleasent surpise

    The 90s engine was a lil more dull in the visceral sense and the 90 was a bit noseheavy.......the 200s went well on boost....

    i didn't think the 850 was all that gutless (it was heavy though)....i just think in comparison to the audi engines, volvo got the best of the 4cyl side rather than the 6cyl

    I'm just talking subjective "feel" here not figures....i'd forgotten to take my stopwatch and G-tech ) [/QB]
    Well here's a 5 cylinder non-froggy car that goes well on boost.

    <a href="http://www.live2cruize.com/fiat.htm" target="_blank">http://www.live2cruize.com/fiat.htm</a>

    The specs say 5 valve per cylinder, it is actually 4 valves. No worries about this one being dull or gutless

    Troy.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! DTwo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
    Posts
    770

    Default

    TroyO
    Well here's a 5 cylinder non-froggy car that goes well on boost.

    <a href="http://www.live2cruize.com/fiat.htm" target="_blank">http://www.live2cruize.com/fiat.htm</a>

    The specs say 5 valve per cylinder, it is actually 4 valves. No worries about this one being dull or gutless

    Troy.[/QB]
    Cool, I didn't realize Fiat coupe used 5cyl engines......they look like an interesting car

    My Alfa was a 5cyl for a while.......but that's another story dead
    ________
    Diannee
    Last edited by DTwo; 22nd August 2011 at 03:57 AM.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts Rod Hagen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    1,630
    Paul Smith:
    And they ripped off the idea from Frederick Lanchester who invented it in 1907! :p

    Paul
    And didn't both Gottleib Benz and Rudolf Diesel play around with turbocharging in the late 1800's?

    But, hey, nobody has mentioned Saurer trucks yet, who used turbo's back in the 30's!

    <small>[ 23 April 2003, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Rod Hagen ]</small>
    Rod's Home Page

    Rod's car page

    Peugeot 407 SV HDi estate 2008, Peugeot 407 SV Hdi Sedan 2006, Peugeot 406 ST (deadish), Peugeot 307 XSE, - Previously 403s, 404, 504, 505 sLI Wagons, 306 XSi, Renault 12, Citroen DSpecial

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,248
    GRAHAM WALLIS:
    The Chevrolet Corvair was the first turbo charged car for sale to the public and was produced in the early 1960s.
    Graham Wallis
    Wasn't it an ex-helicopter engine that was turbo'd in the 'copter application?

    Not only that, but SAAB weren't even the first Turbo production car, or the first in Europe - the BMW 2002 Turbo came out in 1974. Maybe the SAAB was the first on sale in Oz?

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! R17G's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    329
    Renault has sold a five cylinder. This is a 2.5 litre 20-valve five cylinder developed in conjunction with Volvo and Peugeot and fitted as an option from 1996 in the Safrane.
    A Gordini is still a GORDINI!!!

  25. #25
    nJm
    nJm is offline
    Guru nJm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,930
    So the modern 5cyl engines in all the 850/S70/V70 Volvos had Peugeot input? First I've heard of it!

    I drove a 10v S70 a week ago and was very impressed with how torquey it felt for a car with the power figures that it does.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •