Citroen WRC suspension
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  1. #1
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    Citroen WRC suspension

    Interesting read in the paper on the weekend. The current Citroen WRC suspension was developed by a small WA company situated in Dunsborough, a WA country holiday town. They are known for suspensions for 4WD's that give fantastic articulation, especially the Discovery and other Land Rovers. Citroen has an exclusive right to the technology used in the Monte Carlo Xsara's that helped them win. The system connects the front and rear anti-roll bars hydraulically, and maintains roll stiffness without compromising wheel travel. There's no electronic control and it's a passive system so it should be reliable.

    Stuey

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Stuey , what paper is this? is there a link i can get the article on. Im very interested as suspention tuning is something i like to read up on.
    And boy did those Xsaras kick [email protected] monte carlo.
    Xq
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    It's in the Saturday (Weekend) Western Australian. Not a big seller out of Perth.....

    Website is <a href="http://www.thewest.com.au" target="_blank">www.thewest.com.au</a>

    It's called "Kinetic" suspension. I don't know more but sounds interesting.

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    Default Kinetic Suspension - more info.

    Hi people - this is my first message on the forum. What's a Ford man doing here, you may ask? Well I don't know what came over me but a couple of months ago my wife and I bought a new Renault Scenic for her, she loves it, and she has noticed that I also jump into the driver's seat quite often, which I never used to do in her Corolla or previous Mazda 323 (mainly because my head hit the roof)! As a mechanic in my previous life I dread what may lie ahead - but in fact the Scenic appears to be fairly conventional - so fingers crossed. (In the immortal words of Wile-E-Coyote: "In heaven's name - what am I doing??!!)
    OK - reason for this message - I noted the reference to Kinetic suspension on this older thread, and having an acquaintance who works for the Kinetic company and helped with the Citroen design, I thought the Citroen boys & others may be interested in a bit more info.
    Firstly, take a look at www.kinetic.au.com (yes, the au.com is back-to front).
    Check the "News" articles (scroll down from the Mitsubishi articles - the Kinetic was also fitted to the winning 2004 Paris-Dakar "Pajeros") and also look at "previous news" items for a bit on the Citroens.
    Also you will find here that the Kinetic has now been fitted to a production vehicle (USA Lexus Prado 4x4) which is a big step for this small WA country company - even though it is now owned by Tenneco USA, the research and design is still done locally.
    The "Technology" pages will be interesting to the tecnical buffs.
    There was a very good article on Citroen WRC/Kinetic (about 6 pages) in the June 2003 edition of "Racecar Engineering" which is probably a bit hard to find. If anyone wants it I can send a copy by return e-mail if you e-mail me for it.

  5. #5
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    Icon12

    should this be put in the citroen section?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    should this be put in the citroen section?
    You can fit it to a whole range of cars .. even Scooby-Doos. I don't know anyone with a system fitted though (either stage 1,2 or 3)

    - XTC206 -
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  7. #7
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    Default what a lot of merde

    ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah

    Citroen suspension an australian invention ?

    ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    Citroen suspension an australian invention ?
    The list of significant Australian inventions is pretty long ... and this doesn't include Lamingtons and Pavlova. There is a few car things in there. (keeping it on topic).

    - XTC206 -

    1838 Pre-paid postage - Colonial Postmaster-General of New South Wales, James Raymond introduced the world's first pre-paid postal system.

    1843 Grain stripper - John Ridley and John Bull of South Australia developed the world's first grain stripper that cut the crop then removed and placed the grain into bins.

    1856 Refrigerator - Using the principal of vapour compression, James Harrison produced the world's first practical refrigerator. He was commissioned by a brewery to build a machine that cooled beer.

    1858 Football - In 1858 Tom Will and Henry Harrison wrote the first ten rules of Football, thus becoming the first people in the world to codify a kicking-ball game. These rules predate those of Rugby, Soccer and Gridiron. Football may have been inspired by the Aboriginal jumping/kicking game of Marn Grook.

    1874 The underwater torpedo - Invented by Louis Brennan, the torpedo had two propellers, rotated by wires which were attached to winding engines on the shore station. By varying the speed at which the two wires were extracted, the torpedo could be steered to the left or right by an operator on the shore.

    1876 Stump jump plough- Robert and Clarence Bowyer Smith developed a plough which could jump over stumps and stones, enabling newly-cleared land to be cultivated.

    1885 Telpahane - The forerunner of the television. It was invented by Henry Sutton in Ballarat.

    1879 Refrigeration - Credited with the manufacture of the first artificial ice, Eugene Nicolle and Thomas Sutcliffe Mort developed shipboard refrigeration that resulted in the export of meat from Australia to Great Britain.

    1889 Electric Drill - Arthur James Arnot, patented the world's first electric drill on 20 August 1889 while he was an employee of the Union Electric Company in Melbourne. He designed it primarily to drill rock and to dig coal.

    1894 First powered flight - Perhaps inspired by the boomerang, Lawrence Hargrave discovered that curved surfaces lift more than flat ones. He subsequently built the world's first box-kite, hitched four together, added an engine and flew five metres.

    Hargrave corresponded freely with other aviation pioneers, including the Wright Brothers. But unlike the Americans who monopolised their ideas, Hargrave never patented his. Because it promised public access, Hargrave left all his research to the Munich Museum.

    Had Hargrave gained local support to further develop his ideas and not been so generous in sharing his ideas with other aviation pioneers, he probably would have been the first person in the world to achieve sustained and controlled powered flight.

    1897 Differential gears - David Shearer of South Australia built a steam car with a differential inside left rear wheel hub.

    1902 Notepad -For 500 years, paper had been supplied in loose sheets. J A Birchall decided that it would be a good idea to cut the sheets into half, back them with cardboard and glue them together at the top.

    1903 Froth flotation process- The process of separating minerals from rock by flotation was developed by Charles Potter and Guillaume Delprat of New South Wales.

    1906 Feature film - The world's first feature length film, The Story of the Kelly Gang, was a little over an hour long.

    1906 Surf life-saving reel - The first surf life-saving reel in the world was demonstrated at Bondi Beach on 23 December 1906 by its designer Lester Ormsby.

    1910 Humespun process -The Humespun process was developed by Walter Hume of Humes Ltd for making concrete pipes of high strength and low permeability. The process revolutionised pipe manufacture in 1910 and has since been used around the world.

    1912 The tank - A South Australian named Lance de Mole submitted a proposal, to the British War Office, for a 'chain-rail vehicle which could be easily steered and carry heavy loads over rough ground and trenches'. The British war office liked the idea but then developed the tank themselves without paying royalties.

    1913 Automatic totalisator -The world's first automatic totalisator for calculating horse-racing bets was made by Sir George Julius.

    1917 Aspro - A pain reliever based on aspirin was developed in Melbourne by George Nicholas. By 1940 it had become the world's most widely used headache and pain treatment.

    1922 Vegemite - One of the world's richest sources of vitamin B, vegemite was invented by Dr. Cyril P. Callister. It is made by the autolysis of expired brewer's yeast: a process where the yeast's own enzymes break it down.

    1924 Car radio - The first car radio was fitted to an Australian car built by Kellys Motors in New South Wales.

    1927 Speedo -In 1927 Speedo launched the revolutionary 'racer-back' style, which reduced fabric drag. In 1955, Speedo introduced the use of nylon for their racing swimwear. At the 1968, 1972 and 1976 Olympics, more than 70 per cent of all swimming medals were won by competitors wearing Speedo.

    1934 Ute- The utility vehicle, with a front like a car and a rear like a truck was designed by Lewis Brandt at the Ford Motor Company in Geelong, Victoria.
    1940 Zinc Cream - This white sun block made from zinc oxide was developed by the Fauldings pharmaceutical company.

    1942 Transverse folding stroller - Designed by Harold Cornish, the sturdy, lightweight design of his Stoway Strollers made life easier for many parents using public transport as it could be folded and placed under a tram seat.
    1944 Antibiotic penicillin- Produced by Howard Florey with help from a Pome named Ernst Chain.

    1945 The Hills Hoist - A rotary clothes line with a winding mechanism allowing the frame to be lowered and raised with ease. Invented by Lance Hill.

    1952 Victor mower - by Mervyn Victor Richardson, the two-stroke petrol lawn mower with rotary blades revolutionised mowing world wide.

    1950s Lagerphone- The lagerphone is a musical instrument made by nailing beer caps onto a stick. It is not known who invented it, but in the 50s it was popularised by the Heathcote Bushwackers as an alternative to the American wobbleboard.

    1952 Atomic absorption spectrophotometer -Atomic absorption spectrophotometer is a complex analytical instrument incorporating micro-computer electronics and precision optics and mechanics, used in chemical analysis to determine low concentrations of metals in a wide variety of substances. It was first developed by Sir Alan Walsh of the CSIRO.

    1957 Flame ionisation detector -The flame ionisation detector is one of the most accurate instruments ever developed for the detection of emissions. It was invented by Ian McWilliam. The instrument, which can measure one part in 10 million, has been used in chemical analysis in the petrochemical industry, medical and biochemical research, and in the monitoring of the environment.

    1957 Trousers with a permeant crease - The process for producing permanently creased fabric was invented by Dr Arthur Farnworth of the CSIRO.

    1958 Black box flight recorder - The 'black box' voice and instrument data recorder was invented by Dr David Warren in Melbourne.

    1961 Ultrasound - David Robinson and George Kossoff's work at the Australian Department of Health, resulted in the first commercially practical water path ultrasonic scanner in 1961.

    1965 Inflatable escape slide - The inflatable aircraft escape slide which doubles as a raft was invented by Jack Grant of Qantas.

    1965 Wine cask -Invented by Thomas Angrove, the wine cask is a cardboard box housing a plastic container which collapses as the wine is drawn off, thus preventing contact with air.

    1970 Variable rack and pinion steering - The variable ratio rack and pinion steering in motor vehicles was invented by Australian engineer, Arthur Bishop.

    1972 Orbital internal combustion engine - The orbital combustion process engine was invented by engineer Ralph Sarich of Perth, Western Australia.

    1972- Instream analysis - To speed-up analysis of metals during the recovery process, which used to take up to 24 hours, Amdel Limited developed an on-the-spot analysis equipment called the In-Stream Analysis System, for the processing of copper, zinc, lead and platinum - and the washing of coal. This computerised system allowed continuous analysis of key metals and meant greater productivity for the mineral industry worldwide.

    1978 Plastic injection moulding software -Engineers at Moldflow Pty Ltd revolutionised the plastic injection process with a new computer aided engineering software, that simulated the injection moulding process and offered a design strategy to evaluate, refine and optimise successive simulations. The technique has been used widely in the automotive, whitegoods, computer, packaging, communications, aeronautical and photographic industries.
    1979 Race-cam - Race Cam was developed by Geoff Healey, an engineer with Australian Television Network Seven in Sydney. The tiny lightweight camera is used in sports broadcasts and provides viewers with spectacular views of events such as motor racing, which are impossible with conventional cameras

    1979 Bionic ear - The cochlear implant was invented by Professor Graeme Clark of the University of Melbourne.

    1983 Winged Keel - Ben Lexen designed a winged keel that helped Australia II end the American's 132 ownership of the America's cup. The keel gave the yacht better steering and manoeuvrability in heavy winds.

    1984 Frozen embryo baby- The world's first frozen embryo baby was born in Melbourne on 28 March 1984

    1986 Gene shears - The discovery of gene shears was made by CSIRO scientists, Wayne Gerlach and Jim Haseloff.

    1992 Multi-focal contact lens- The world's first multi-focal contact lens was invented by optical research scientist, Stephen Newman in Queensland.

    1992 Supersonic combustion - The University of Queensland demonstrated the world's first supersonic combustion in an atmospheric flight test at Woomera on July 30, 2002. The craft reached speeds of more than Mach 8, or 8 times the speed of sound.

    1993 Scramjet - The University of Queensland reported for the first time the development of a scramjet that achieved more thrust than drag.

    1993 Underwater pc - The world's first underwater computer with a five-button hand-held keypad was developed by Bruce Macdonald at the Australian Institute of Marine Science.

    1995 EXELGRAM - The world's most sophisticated optical anti-counterfeiting technology was developed by the CSIRO.
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah

    Citroen suspension an australian invention ?

    ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ah
    Sorry, mon ami! But if it makes you feel better - my first thought when I found out about the Citroen/Kinetic link was "What a feather in the cap for Kinetic - to have Citroen, one of the world's great suspension designers, approve the fitment of their design, and publicly acknowledge that it was an improvement".

    Also, it doesn't actually replace the suspension, the Kinetic design merely links the anti-roll bars in a way that allows more free movement of the main suspension while limiting body roll in corners. Look at the Citroen WRC cars and they sit very flat when cornering and when going over bumps.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts gti138's Avatar
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    Mitsubishi also had this system fitted to the Pajero Evo's for this years Paris - Dakar rally. I watched it and remember them saying something about the system being developed in Australia then. They also said that they have exculsive use of the system for Rally-Raid racing and that Citroen were using it in the WRC.

    They system looks quite good - and is obviously effective
    Murray : And there are flames coming from the back of Prost's car as he enters the swimming pool!
    James Hunt: Well that should put them out then!


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    Citroen suspension an australian invention ?
    I've had some dealings with the Kinetic company professionally and you'd be VERY surprised at their achievements! I can't elaborate as I've signed a confidentiality agreement...

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    1897 Differential gears - David Shearer of South Australia built a steam car with a differential inside left rear wheel hub.
    Didnt know that our David Shearer was so old, I would give up on fitting that hot cam to the Mi16 Dave you must be far too old to enjoy it
    Neil
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  13. #13
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    Default More controversy by Harrisson Citroen....Yeahhhhh!

    Okay XTC206,

    It took me a while to reply because I was checking a few of your very assured statements re- australian inventors:

    on a few of them this is what GOOGLE says:

    -Inventor of refrigeration: Oliver Evans not James Harrisson
    -Inventor of underwater torpedo: Robert Whitehead 1891 not Louis Brennen
    -Inventor of Electric drill: Doug Hougan not Arthur Arnot
    -First powered flight Orville Wright not Lawrence Hargrave
    - First differential gear: Onesiphore Pecqueur not David Shearer
    Best of All:
    -Inventor of lawn mower Edwin Budding not Mervyn Richardson

    as you can see I haven't finished checking them all, and I am sure more are incorrect.
    So come on what have you got to say for yourself?
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  14. #14
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    Okay XTC206,
    It took me a while to reply because I was checking a few of your very assured statements re- australian inventors:
    If you look about you can find all sorts of things ... I think the point is Australians have invented heaps of things and sometimes they have not been credited with it ... and that's partially what some of these are about, obviously different researchers are going to come up with different things ... as for the TRUTH of em .. what is truth?

    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    on a few of them this is what GOOGLE says:
    -Inventor of refrigeration: Oliver Evans not James Harrisson
    The first known artificial refrigeration was demonstrated by William Cullen at the University of Glasgow in 1748. However, he did not use his discovery for any practical purpose. In 1805, an American inventor, Oliver Evans, designed the first refrigeration machine. The first practical refrigerating machine was built by Jacob Perkins in 1834; it used ether in a vapor compression cycle. An American physician, John Gorrie, built a refrigerator based on Oliver Evans' design in 1844 to make ice to cool the air for his yellow fever patients. German engineer Carl von Linden, patented not a refrigerator but the process of liquifying gas in 1876 that is part of basic refrigeration technology.
    So who invented it ?

    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    -Inventor of underwater torpedo: Robert Whitehead 1891 not Louis Brennen
    Louis Brennan, inventor of the Brennan torpedo, the first underwater guided missile ...
    http://www.army.mod.uk/linked_files/...204%202004.pdf

    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    -Inventor of Electric drill: Doug Hougan not Arthur Arnot
    1889 Electric drill Arthur James Arnot from Melbourne patented the world's first electric drill.

    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    -First powered flight Orville Wright not Lawrence Hargrave
    Actually there is at least 2 previous claims before the Wright Bros. A german Gustave Whitehead and a NZ Richard Pearse ... their mistake .. not on film.

    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen
    as you can see I haven't finished checking them all, and I am sure more are incorrect. So come on what have you got to say for yourself?
    You've got FAR to much time on your hands ??????

    Some of these come from the book of firsts (which I have sitting here) some are Googled, but like most things if it doesn't come from a .gov or .edu site it's not a reliable source (actaully that's debatable too)!

    If you have the time looking through http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/
    and www.uspto.gov will give you lots more answers .. but patent DOES NOT EQUAL invention.

    - XTC206 -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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  15. #15
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    Harrisson, why are you even trying? No-one said that any CitroŽn suspension was an Australian invention. Kinetic just developed (ie. further advanced) the WRC CitroŽn suspension at the time I made the post. That's it.

    Do you dispute this, or what?

    Stuey

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    Default Meat pie actually is a French invention

    Scoop Guys.... don't believe anything else you hear, but the meat pie actually is French.
    Also there is a version of Waltzing Matilda in French that dates back to before Australia was discovered,...... now that's odd?

    Cheers
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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! Reno's Avatar
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    incase you didn't notice he is a frenchman...

  18. #18
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    Default Hi Julian

    What are you doing driving a renault?
    The xsara now wears a nice nice nice chevron in the Grille where it belongs
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  19. #19
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    Also Guys if you haven't noticed I can also spell my... English
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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    Violin
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  21. #21
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    Harrisson, no-one cares.

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    not happy
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  23. #23
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    Default French

    Look dears, Iam English, and who hates the French as much as us poms !
    but they can make a great car so who cares if it was the aussies or the lovely French who invented what........... I sure you don't want me to start listing what the poms invented

    oh we invented the worlds largest jail, its called Australia....

    love to all men and good will on earth.... fine quote



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    check that
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    This is hilarious

    Please, keep it up!

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