Sweet!!!!! I like the sound of this
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Sweet!!!!! I like the sound of this

    Peugeot contemplates sweetener

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    January 28, 2003
    Peugeot Sport Director Corrado Provera has admitted that his team might trade tobacco for chocolate as restrictions on cigarette advertising tighten. Sponsorship from Toblerone chocolate is a possible substitute when or even before European legislation outlaws Marlboro backing. Like Marlboro, Toblerone is part of Philip Morris.

    But Provera emphasised that no alternative had been agreed and that Marlboro remains very much the priority for the time being.

    “Toblerone is an example of a brand, but they make many things – coffee for example. This is just pure hypothesis. Just in case the European Commission bans tobacco advertising before 2006, we would sit round the table and discuss if anything else could be done,” he said.

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I wonder how long this would last if all those fat Yanks sue McDonalds? They'll probably ban advertising of anything that may have excess calories.
    That tobacco advertising ban would have to be the greatest load of bu!!$#i+ there ever was.
    I used to smoke a pipe (I do drive a Citroen after all) and never did I ever get the urge to "light up a Marlborough" because someone had the brand tattooed on his car.
    These days I don't smoke, and I still don't get the urge whenever I see the brand name, in fact it's so much crap that they tell me that "West" is a brand of cigarette; I thought it was possibly a Yankee beer and wasn't aware it wasn't until the so called "anti-smoking lobby" the greatest promoters of the tobacco industry in the world, made a big deal about it being on a car or a pair of overalls or something a few years ago. That still didn't send me down to the local tobacconists madly craving for one of their fags.
    Perhaps the anti smokers group that constantly promote the tobacco industry by bringing all of these things to the public's attention could sponsor some of these teams. After all, I can't believe that with the promoting of tobacco they do that the big tobacco companies wouldn't bank roll them to do it!
    mallet mallet dance

    Alan S
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  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hey Alan

    I disagree strongly, and I mean VERY strongly on what your saying about tabocco advertising. I've got some motoring magazines from the 70's, they have disgusting the tabacco adverising in them. Full pages of (blatantly obviously underage women/guys) standing around in bikini's etc... smoking. ie: they make smoking look 'cool' and the 'in thing' to all the under age kids.

    You gotta get 'em young cos all the oldies are dying off (from smoking related illnesses). This is just the motoring magazines, what about the huge billboards, etc, etc.... Trust me it's not a load of s#!+!! Kids aren't the brightest, if there bombarded with images that 'cool kids' smoke, that's what they'll do.... Just look at the balemic/anorexic look portrayed/bombarded on them by the media. Guess what all young girls want to look like know ??

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  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Shane,

    If I was talking about ADVERTISING in the 70s I'd agree but I wasn't! I was talking about sponsorship in the past couple of decades not advertising which are two entirely different things. By saying the word "Holiday" does that want to make you want to go out & buy a packet of fags?? If not why? After all you can buy a brand of cigarettes called that.
    If the same restrictions on tobacco companies were applied to other merchandise they would never get off the ground.
    Would the word "Hyundai" (another health hazard) if left in isolation without any promotion mean that if a ban on car advertising would have been imposed on them as it has been on the baccy companies, then according to these academics who thought up this little gem in promotion by deceit, we would still have those Korean masterpieces all over the streets as we have now. Therein lies the difference.
    If their argument held water, we then would not have the drug problem we've got, I mean how many times have you turned on the TV to see a commercial "Next time you want to go on a trip...then see one of Big Vinnies boys...more kick to your crack at Big Vinnies; (back alley, just behind Madam Lashes knocking shop) credit card facilities available. 100 'Fly buys' bonus points with every 50 gram purchase)"
    I was around & smoking back in the '70s when those magazines & TV commercials were all the thing; they were shockers, but as Alan Jones once said, he won the world F-1 title in a car sponsored in part by a tobacco company (Craven A from memory) back in 81. He has never smoked in his life, was never asked to smoke or to promote the habit & did at times make statements condeming it. It didn't encourage him, his friends or anyone he knew to take up a habit they didn't already have. The result of this simple minded legislation has been to not reduce the number of young smokers, they're still on the rise, but to place enormous burdons on particularly small community sporting & cultural groups due to other companies (Coca Cola & Mc Donalds being two prime examples or in the case in question, Tobblerone') being courted by the larger players; Horse racing, car racing, football, cricket, into large committments to major events & leaving the community groups to have to bust their gutses to raise finances for local smaller not as exposed events which the large companies can no longer afford to syupport.
    It has done a heap of harm & absolutely nothing to lessen the amount of tobacco being consumed.
    As a hardened ex smoker (and not one that turned into a wowser), I stand by what I said.

    Alan S
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  5. #5
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    I'd agree with that Shane but i think we have got to the stage where Tobacco advertising has been banned enough. A racing car will never display a picture of young people having a fag, wont even feature a motto....Tobacco companies limit their sponsoring space on a race car to their brand name.

    Ive heard of people change brands of smokes because of a brand name being displayed on a race car (i started smoking Rothmans when Renault were world champions.. blush ) but people dont take up smoking for that reason.

    The 2006 ban in my mind is ridiculous but i 'reckon it will get postponed again when the time comes. After all it give a lot of anti-smoking lobbyist's a job....

    I think smoking has been discriminated against quite enough. Having a coffee without a smoke at a coffee shop is like going to a toilet and not being allowed to take a piss. Some people might say they dont like to passive smoke while they are sipping their latte. Why dont they have a coffee at home? There's no smoker's to PUT UP WITH there...

  6. #6
    Cal
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    renaulturbo:
    Ive heard of people change brands of smokes because of a brand name being displayed on a race car (i started smoking Rothmans when Renault were world champions.. blush ) but people dont take up smoking for that reason.
    lol....ditto.....Silk Cut, Lemans Jaguar comeback. The stupidity of being a teenager.

    Cal.
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  7. #7
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    renaulturbo:
    I think smoking has been discriminated against quite enough. Having a coffee without a smoke at a coffee shop is like going to a toilet and not being allowed to take a piss. Some people might say they dont like to passive smoke while they are sipping their latte. Why dont they have a coffee at home? There's no smoker's to PUT UP WITH there...
    A more appropriate analogy is, "Having a coffee without a smoke at a coffee shop is like going to a toilet and not being allowed to take a piss on the bloke next to you."

    Stuey


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  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Ooohhh... things are getting heated!

    My parents were telling me in 1950 that smoking causes lung cancer... the world has had over half a century to get rid of these things and it doesn't!

    Let's not put up with apologists who think we should be grateful we can breathe their smoke...

  9. #9
    UFO
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    renaulturbo:
    I'd agree with that Shane but i think we have got to the stage where Tobacco advertising has been banned enough. A racing car will never display a picture of young people having a fag, wont even feature a motto....Tobacco companies limit their sponsoring space on a race car to their brand name.

    Ive heard of people change brands of smokes because of a brand name being displayed on a race car (i started smoking Rothmans when Renault were world champions.. blush ) but people dont take up smoking for that reason.

    The 2006 ban in my mind is ridiculous but i 'reckon it will get postponed again when the time comes. After all it give a lot of anti-smoking lobbyist's a job....

    I think smoking has been discriminated against quite enough. Having a coffee without a smoke at a coffee shop is like going to a toilet and not being allowed to take a piss. Some people might say they dont like to passive smoke while they are sipping their latte. Why dont they have a coffee at home? There's no smoker's to PUT UP WITH there...
    OK, I work in a TAFE College and have done for all my work life. I am constantly amazed at the number of young people who smoke these days. I know there is the opinion of the young that they are immune to death and that cancer will never happen to them. (As they cough and hack later on)

    I also notice that less and less older people are smoking. Mind you, they are probably eating more and therefore putting on weight - but a person eating does not invade MY airspace and affect the air I breathe.

    When I go to a coffee shop to have a cuppa, I do not sip 1/3 of my cup and spray the rest of it all over the rest of the people in the coffee shop (unless it is REALLY bad coffee). However if some chimney on legs decides that they want to light up and most of the smoke drifts in my direction that is seemingly my tough luck.

    I am often tempted to fart on queue and make it obvious. Then if the smoker complained I'd have a real case for an argument! evil

    Then again, I think of my Grandmother who died at 63 (in the 70s) due to emphysema (sp?) from being a long term smoker. Then our friend in Brisbane who died last year aged 48 from a brain tumor - also a long time smoker. Too many people die from smoking - it has now been proven.

    How many people die from coffee drinking?

    I think we don't discriminate against smoking enough! dead
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  10. #10
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Guys,

    I really do think your getting off the rails big time on this; it's beginning to sound like a debate on the pros & cons of smoking (or in UFOs case, the pros & cons of farting in elevators) mallet which isn't really the case.
    The point I was making that Shane lost the plot on was whether a name on a bill board was contributing to people smoking which has been proven conclusively it doesn't. The advertising of the 70s was blatant advertising and designed to encourage people, young & old to smoke.
    Statements like "sit back & relax with a Marlborough" is advertising. The word "Marlborough" painted on a sign or a car is just that; a word. Nothing more, nothing less. Take a kid, say 13 with non smoking parents and I doubt it would mean anything apart from a title "The Marlborough Australian Grand Prix."
    The rugby league had the "Winfield Cup" for years and pyjama cricket was sponsored by Benson & Hedges which it was later discovered that the NSW Premier Kermit Greiner was the CEO of & he actually brought in some of the anti-smoking legislation and now we're told this will help reduce people smoking; yeah right...moon..green cheese 'n all that!! roll_lau roll_lau
    The brand names, as has been stated, are there to try to swing the smoker of one brand to change to another & anyone that believes that a word or logo with no slogan or associated advertising will start someone smoking should leave a basket out for the Easter Bunny.
    My point is, that as long as your moon points to the ground, there will be people smoking. Governments don't want this to stop as it is a major source of revenue and the anti-smoking lobby are either too naive or well aware that their constant "promotion" is being so successful that it is going to continue for a long time, complete with Government sponsorship.
    Therefore, we have the local, small, battling sports & cultural groups being starved out due to this pointless ban being done so that something is "being seen to be done" and thereby building up brownie points for some dopey 'non comprendis' politician & their empire building Public Sevants.
    As someone who has had to battle "City Hall" on numerous occasions, I can tell you it's a hard job and is always met with the response that every year more people are looking for grants and each year the kitty gets smaller while the group seeking the handouts gets bigger. A young cricketer needing $5000 to represent Australia and a runner needing $6800 to represent Australia at the Oceanic games are two typical cases I was involved in.
    In contrast, the "VB series" in Cricket sees the spectacle of players swigging booze and pouring it all over each other, yet that seems acceptable & that to my mind is when sponsorship DOES become blatant advertising, yet that seems to be condoned because our "Social Engineers" see fit to endorse it.

    Alan S cheers!
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  11. #11
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    Alan, the simple fact is that the only reason cigarette companies want their names on cars is to sell their fags. Yes, you might say the teenager would smoke anyway, but I reckon many wouldn't. The more the brand names are raised in the person's subconscious on high profile billboards, the more socially acceptable it appears to smoke any brand. Bottom line: if the things weren't mentioned, less people would smoke.

    Stuey


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  12. #12
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Stuey, fair go mate,
    So when a kid's told that "Holidays" start in a week, they go & buy a pack of fags and start smoking? And the sun rises over the "Horizon" ...away they go again?
    Hey; I was so heavy a smoker that in my later days I easily went through 50grams of pipe tobacco in a day and as a cigarette smoker I could handle 40 a day when I had the 'flu and 60 was common in normal times, so if watching a car race, a cricket match or a game of league had absolutely no effect on me wanting to take it up again in the early days of me stopping, why should it make a kid whose never smoked, start?
    BUT, watching those sanctamonius hypocrites from the "anti-smoking" lobby did. They do a million times more damage & are a more effective marketing tool than the sign & a name ever could; and that's from personal experience.
    Don't get me wrong, I reckon it's great that Tobblerone are sponsoring Peugeot, it's just that they really shouldn't have to & while they and others are, it's the little guy and smaller communities who are missing out.

    Alan S
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  13. #13
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I urge you all to have a read...

    Find the book that looks like a Marlboro packet, the title is The Smoking Business... read it from cover to cover and get a really good insight into how disgusting the tobacco companies are.

    Then tell me you want them to promote their wares in any way...

  14. #14
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I can see I'm talking to brick walls.
    I'll give up before the bloody frustration has me out the back having a smoke!! mallet mallet mallet mallet mallet mallet

    Alan S
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  15. #15
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Alan, you're trying to say that there's no connection between advertising and smoking...

    Why would they spend all that money on the promotions if it doesn't work?

    After all, their billions spent each year includes some on ascertaining how well they do work... they're not stupid!

    But there is a lot more in the book... I urge you to read it. It's not related to the advertising at all...

    And by the way, since they lost their outlet for advertising dollars when television was denied them, they spent the money on acquiring legitimate businesses instead.

    So tobacco money's control over local governments and governments is pretty broad.

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Yeah I sure know hnow to change the subject don't I

    Seriously guys I don't believe that a car moving at light speed that a camera will have problems focusing on with smoking emblems on it will have kids smoking again... It's the media saturation of cigarette brands that should never be allowed to happen...

    Now what was this subject about again?? Somthing to do with cars wasn't it roll_lau roll_lau

    By the way come in and start smoking in a coffee shop when I'm having a coffee and it doesn't take much imagination work out where I'm going to shove you stinkin bloody cigarette mallet mallet mallet

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  17. #17
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    And I can get on the subject changing bandwagon too...

    Complaining about having to constantly walk through a pile of smoke outside buildings to get inside (as the smoking employees line up outside to get their fix...) a woman told me the other day that her brother in law had escorted some Japanese visitors to Qld on behalf of BHP.

    They toured extensively, city, country, mining areas, ports etc... later he asked them what they thought of Qld.

    "Too many prostitutes!" came the reply.

    You can guess what they meant.

  18. #18
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:


    "Too many prostitutes!" came the reply.

    You can guess what they meant.
    too many loose women ??????????? roll_lau
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  19. #19
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    No, all the office girls standing outside the buildings smoking...

    There's hundreds of them, all hours of the day. And they do look something like prostitutes as they stand there apparently waiting for someone as they puff away.

  20. #20
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    Alan S:
    Stuey, fair go mate,
    So when a kid's told that "Holidays" start in a week, they go & buy a pack of fags and start smoking? And the sun rises over the "Horizon" ...away they go again?
    Alan S
    Caaaaar'n Al! They aren't just words in 40 point Arial on the cars, are they? And besides, which team does 'Holiday' sponsor? Try Benson and Hedges, Marlboro, Lucky Strike, Rothmans, 555 etc. - all well known top selling brands that couldn't be anything but fags. But, even still, if there was a Holiday McLaren, being a Holiday cigarette packet on wheels would give the fags profile. So the livery on the car and typeface of the words is also important. And as for West, that's one of the biggest selling brands in Germany, apparently. Advertising's a bit more subtle than many realise. Like I said, raise it in the subconscious of the kid and they're more likely to smoke.

    Stuey

    <small>[ 01 February 2003, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: Stuey ]</small>


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  21. #21
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    Smoking is on the way out of the cafe/pub door.
    I think that this is resonable!

    If you make the sensible decision not to smoke then why be subjected to other peoples exhaust. Its like standing at the trough and getting sprayed by someones piss that has had there penis pierced. Maybe you could take it on the chin the first time - might even make you laugh? - if it happened 3 times a week for a year and your pants werent the same anymore.... at least getting your dick pierced is supposed to enhanse sexual sensations for both parties - not make them addicted and sick.

    I think the thing with advertising these days is that its a fine psychological art. Smoking / McDonalds etc have a very defined target - these ads are masterpieces of advertising!! whatever the medium - billboards etc.

    Smoking doesnt do anything for you - addiction and health problems that we pay all eventually pay for - for the profit of some of the fattest cats in the world.. I have no sympathy for these multi-nationals..what is there to be sympathetic about? These companies have been adding addictive substances to these products to ensure profit when they know full well the consequences of it use...
    Oh dear - not allowed to advertise anymore - poor multinational...

    Once you get someone smoking - its until death do you part! just the fact that you would change brands according to who sponsors your fav factory racing team means that it is having an affect. You people all drive french cars - you sound rational - maybe even intelligent.
    Rational people are affected by and do associate winning with the sponsor..the sponsor with winning...being a winner and using the sponsor..

    We are all mature - seen advertising change - have an idea about what it is and how it works..

    how do you think these same adverts will affect impressionable children? third world communities who save up to smoke marlborough because its cool! or line up for hours to get into a first world faimly restaurant known as McDonalds.

    How much are sports stars paid again???
    seem abit out of order???
    what are they contributing???
    what is that worth!!!
    look at F1... whats a car/driver worth???

  22. #22
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    O.K I'll give it one more try to get passed all the "thy shalt not smoke" waffle that is badly clouding this issue.

    I am not advocating smoking end of story!! mallet

    I am simply saying that the ones who have been preaching that have simply fallen into line with the social engineers pushing the politically correct bandwagon. IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE...I can't make it any clearer than that!!

    Here's some similar comparisons.

    How many here would know which driver/Team in the V8 Supercar ranks is or was sponsored by a brothel?

    What was the name of that brothel?

    As a result of seeing that car in several Bathursts, did you visit that brothel?

    When you saw or read that name, did you get an urge to do business with it?

    What kind of "services" was that brothel offering?

    Who is Pirtek?

    What are their services in detail?

    What is Roil?

    Who makes it?

    Who drives a vehicle sponsored by them?

    Who were the major sponsors of Alan Jones Championship F1 team?

    What benefits did they get from sponsorship had they not won the title?

    What is Benneton? The former sponsor of Michael Schumachers original Championship team.

    What was the original sponsor of the Brisbane Broncos and what did they do?

    In any of the above cases, how would you have known what they did unless they bought TV advertising time to "promote" their products; the brothel did it once during a Bathurst which was not considered apt for daytime television.
    I was working at the Gold Coast in the '70s when the manager came in all excited saying we had been chosen to submit a tender for a "yank company that were going to be big out here" when I asked who they were, I was told Mc Donalds excitedly; he'd been to the States, I hadn't, and only he was excited; everybody else asked "what's Mc Donalds & what do they do" THAT'S the difference. When they started, they promoted all this dogs vomit as food & people bought it and the promotion was so good, believed it actually was fit for human consumption. eek! eek! Today their logo, which to me looks like a big bum stuck up in the air, (a la someone chundering down the loo) is the symbol of that company so whenever you see that you think of Mc Donalds. You can see it several times a day on any commercial station along with promotions telling you how great their food tastes and have proven by doing this, that some people will believe anything providing it is PROMOTED. BUT, there is a big difference between promotion & sponsorship; as someone said recently, when they first saw the word "aussiefrogs" they thought we were a group of "greenies" or something associated with environmental topics.
    Instead I suppose every time they see our stickers, they go out & buy a French car instead roll_lau roll_lau

    Alan S dance
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  23. #23
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    I agree there's some confusion here between advertising signage causing a kid (who would have smoked anyway) to choose a specific brand, and the same advertising causing a non-smoking kid to pick up fags and start smoking. But I still reckon if you could get a tobacco company exec to talk, they'd see F1 as a way to market to what they call the Playstation generation. Just my opinion. By the way, one of my work colleagues is a uni lecturer in marketing. I'll run it past him.

    (Hey Alan, did you know Jones's Williams-Ford FW07 is in the York Motor Museum in WA?)

    Stuey

    <small>[ 01 February 2003, 07:11 PM: Message edited by: Stuey ]</small>


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  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    The one sponsored by Saudi Air?

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    <span><span class=ResizableText0>
    Originally</span> posted by UFO: Too many people die from smoking - it has now been proven. How many people die from coffee drinking? I think we don't discriminate</span> against smoking enough! dead [/QB]
    </span> </span>
    .....mmm fuel......
    yes i agree, there is too many people dead from smoking, also car crashes, motorbike riding, extreme sports, malpractise in hospitals, alchoholism, viagra and death it self is just too damm prominent, i mean who the hell do we as humans think we are going off and just killing aour selves like that?? help me and atleast three others, join us at our web site, <a href="http://www.don'tblamemesocietydidit.gov.au" target="_blank">www.don'tblamemesocietydidit.gov.a u</a> and help us put stop to death in general for once and for all............................................... .................................................. .....sorry my anti-enfasima air bottle just ran out, a quick change........ there..much better.lol
    Xq

    ps, craigk, no personal attack/missqoute, just adding to the thread i thought it was about to DIE..sorry.lol
    ... ptui!

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