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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Damien Gardner's Avatar
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    revenue raising stats

    Have a look here, proof of the pudding

    <a href="http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/clubhouse/featureStory.asp?ID=4679" target="_blank">http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/clubhouse/featureStory.asp?ID=4679</a>

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Damien Gardner:
    Have a look here, proof of the pudding

    <a href="http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/clubhouse/featureStory.asp?ID=4679" target="_blank">http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/clubhouse/featureStory.asp?ID=4679</a>

    renault_
    Damien,

    Yes a good story that sets out some facts instead of the rhetoric (b/s) that we are fed about road safety and reducing the road toll! And as said in the article we don't have ladder police!!

    And how about this site - <a href="http://www.abd.org.uk/index.htm" target="_blank">http://www.abd.org.uk/index.htm</a> the Association of British Drivers that has been saying much the same for decades now. It's worth browsing around.

    cheers

    Denis

  3. #3
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    What a shame that the truth that lies in the figures is never allowed to come out.

    Even this story doesn't reveal the full picture. NSW speed cameras raise 180m... but what about the total of all speeding fines?

    The best references are these:

    WA, 1968. As many people died by August as had in the whole of the previous year.

    Biggest change? The introduction (for the first time) of an outright speed limit.

    Victoria, 1967 (?): A new record number of deaths is set for an ordinary (non-holiday) weekend. Background? A massive traffic blitz had been organised that weekend. Nothing else special...

    Result: The Parliament was in uproar... "Something has to be done!" An even bigger blitz was held the following weekend.

    Result: Even higher new record for a non-holiday weekend! The following week followed the same pattern, with even more dying.

    Very little was said in Parliament, however, about the fourth weekend. Police had laid low, caught up on their days off etc after three consecutive weekends of extra traffic duty.

    Oh, did I mention? Nobody died on Victorian roads that weekend... and it rained.

    Want another one?

    Harder to put together, but during the sixties in NSW there was only one occasion where a real blitz on a holiday weekend resulted in fewer deaths than the corresponding weekend the previous year.

    The fact is that police presence on the roads, especially non-obvious police presence, leads to more accidents. People are looking for police rather than watching where they're going... most people aren't capable of that level of concentration.

    The only Government actions that have ever reduced (consistently) road deaths have been:

    1. Compulsory safety belt wearing... 25% reduction despite only 50% wearing belts properly. Time has enhanced this figure... time, people getting used to belts, retracting belts etc.

    2. Random breath tests. 30% improvement.

    Look at those figures, by the way... hundreds of thousands booked for speeding, just a few thousand for intoxicated driving. How few drinking and driving does it take to make a huge impression on the cemeteries and hospitals?

    Suicide is also mentioned... you can bet that most suicides in cars are noted as speed-related, too.

    The killer on roads is lack of knowledge, beyond all else.

  4. #4
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    Ray, what do you think caused the increases in deaths due to speed limit enforcement? I can't think of anything, other than drivers concentrating solely on their speed, rather than their driving.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  5. #5
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    That and a few other things...

    Bunching, for instance... not being able to set a natural pace for yourself and being forced to join a queue. And all the aggravation that results from that... which can combine with a lack of patience at times.

    And simply watching the mirrors instead of what's in front.

  6. #6
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    Ray

    I think that you hit the nailk right on the head! Driving on any
    road requires awareness of the condition of the road, where
    other drivers are in relation to your car, concentration on the hazards
    that do require action by adjusting your speed to those conditions.

    The last thing that you want is drivers constantly staring at their
    speedos lest they creep a kilometre over the limit, or driving so
    far under the speed limit that they introduce hazards, bunching up
    traffic and causing other drivers to jump lanes, become pre-occupied
    with "the other bloody driver" and instead of a pleasant experience
    driving becomes unpleasant and fatigue creeps in and concentration
    lapses.

    Ideally I like to drive in traffic that flows freely and I can maintain safe
    distances from other road users, adjusting my speed up or down to
    as the conditions change and give courtesy to others. I hate having to
    keep checking my speedo while trying to maintain a safe speed in tune
    tothe driving conditions.

    But the fact is, unless you want to keep contributing to Mr Bracks Revenue
    raisers and l end up with thousands of other drivers booked for a few
    kilometres over the speed limit and still see plenty of examples of idiot
    speeding, you have to constantly check speeds, limit signs, and of course
    Mr Bracks still can't get the few overhead speed indicators reading
    correctly even with the millions raked in by cameras.

    Nuff said! Perhaps one day they will look past the money and see the present
    speed policy is working against road safety rather than improving the
    safety of our roads.

    Ken.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Ralph's Avatar
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    Hi all,

    I reckon if everyone challenged the speeding fine received from a revenue camera and took it to court it'd give the Govt. a rethink on this. It'd cost a fortune and tie up the courts. They'd have to do something about it then!

    Cheers,

    Ralph.

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  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    If we could get the whole country to rebel and take every speeding fine under, say, 30kmh over the limit, to court they certainly would have to revise their thinking.

    How do we get this organised?

  9. #9
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    Nah

    I reckon that if the politicians and publicly funded officials are so concerned about
    speed, then they should set an example. We should campaign for every taxpayer
    funded/fueled vehicle to be compulsorily fitted with an additional digital speedometer
    visible to other vehicles. This will serve a dual purpose in that we can check OUR
    speedos for accuracy and THEY can show THEY can drive consistently at or below the
    speed limits (AT ALL TIMES)

    Then WE report them when THEY go minutely OVER the speed limit mallet

    Whats good for the goose is also good for the gander!!

    This is one campaign we should win, after all OUR taxes pay for the cars
    and the fuel and it is THEIR pet road safety revenue raiser!!!!!!.

    Wonder how long it will then take to get back to the 10 percent leeway
    on prosecution and setting the cameras at the 75th percentile range
    of average traffic speeds on a given section of roadway.???

    Ken

  10. #10
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    G'day guys,

    I have a viewpoint to offer from both sides of the law.

    I'm a Victorian cop and a car enthusiast (yes you can be both). Whilst I do understand (and sometimes sympathise) the uproar over speed cameras (and the revenue they create), people must also understand that the government (which we voted in) must (unfortunately) create laws to cater for the lowest common denominator.

    If the government was seen to be doing nothing in regards to our road toll, they would be seen as being derelict in their duty to society. Unfortunately for you and I, speed cameras are the easiest way the pollies to show stats (and earn a few million in revenue while they're at it)

    Although it is part of my job to enforce the laws created by the government, it does not mean that I have to agree with them.

    Many of the deaths on our roads (I believe) are actually due to flaws in infrastrcture and licencing.

    Some obvious examples are divided freeways (Hume for example) with giant gum trees planted next to, and in the median strip (great for tearing a car in half on impact)

    An obvious solution on roads to long to be economically viable for gaurdrails is to plant varieties of conifers, which naturally have a dense and absorbent foilage but with relativly small trunks.

    Australian road designers also have a tendancy of making a complete fubar of new roads.

    A good example is the relatively new Western Ring Road (in Melbourne). This road continually changes from 2 to 3 lanes and back to 2 again. With so many trucks using this road, and the inherent problem of cars merging into truck filled lanes. Is it any wonder that there have been so many fatalities since it opened?

    Fortunately, as a police officer, I have a certain amount of discretion in relation to who I book. Speed cameras, as most of you (and your wallets) know, do not.

    I myself have no problem with a driver doing 120-130 kph on a clear and well made road if the conditions (and car) can justify it. I can think of nothing more fatigue and complacence inducing than driving a modern car at 100kph on a straight and quiet open road.

    Todays cars are quieter, handle & ride better and require virtually none of the constant steering corrections to allow for cross winds or road surface irregularities that kept you alert in the cars of yesteryear. Many have cruise control which means drivers no longer even have to allow for hills (and with 80% of skippy drivers opting for Autos, gearchanging is a thing of the past for most).

    On the other hand, people seem to forget that the speed limit on our roads is the 'maximum speed under ideal conditions' . Nothing pisses me of more (as both a cop and a driver) than people whose driving habits (and braking distances) refuses to change regardless of weather or traffic paterns. Luckily for these moronic fools, speed cameras don't have a d*#k head detector built in, if they did our road toll would surely plummet...

    The other big gripe I have with our current road system, is the licencing system (if you can call it that). When Mr/Mrs New Driver gets his/her licence, they have usually had zero experience in any of what I consider to be the most important catagories:
    1:Emergency braking.(wet/dry)
    2:Hard braking whilst cornering at speed.(wet/dry)
    3:Slide control/prevention.

    This is not a fault of P-Platers (we were all there once), but the first time most of them will try to implement any of the above will be when an emergency presents itself on the road ahead.

    Those of you who have done any motor racing wil know the feeling of out-braking yourself into a closing apex corner. If you do it a few times, you know the warning signs, you feel the back start to get loose on turn in, and you modulate the brake to compensate.

    When something happens infront of you on the road, how often have you inadvertently reverted to the 'racing' part of your brain to prevent a brake lock-up.

    Most kids dont have that chance to learn collision avoidance (advanced driving), some may get through most of their lives never needing to know them.

    After attending a few fatal's, and seeing the tyre marks on the road, I sometimes wonder if the driver had lost control of his/her car for the very first time??

    No sandtrap, No runoff,No Armco,

    Just a Gum tree....

    There is a simple way to beat speeding tickets.

    Don't speed!!

    I am the biggest speed freak out there, and if I can drive around and to work and back at the speed limit, anyone can (cops still get flashed by speed cameras to...and no, we cant get out of them)

    You can use the money you save on petrol and speeding tickets to join a car club and go to track days. There you can satisfy any need for speed, or explore the handling limits of your toy in relative safety.

    And by the way, nothing proves how good a driver you are or aren't than a laptime.......

    Drive like Schumacher, just don't do it on the road... wink

  11. #11
    UFO
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    Well, it is interesting to hear the opinion of someone many of us rail against. I have a cousin who is a Highway Patrol Officer and a good friend's husband is too. They both have expressed their feelings of the simplicity of gaining a licence in NSW (and seemingly elsewhere in Aus).

    The recent experience I had at an advanced driver training day has caused me to change my driving for the better. Larger distances between me and the nutter in front, more patience, avoidance of the corner collision zone etc.

    It is also interesting to note that the motoring media are slowly ramping up a campaign against low speed limits in high quality road areas and over use of speed cameras. Perhaps we should support them with some politician letters?

    It is interesting to note that in Europe (esp Germany) it costs lots more to get a licence - something like $2500 in Germany and takes many more tests and much more knowledge. However in Germany there are areas with no speed limits and the roads to suit. The drivers know what to do on them and drive accordingly. The death rate on German roads is far less per km driven than elsewhere. However I would imagine that having a prang at 250 km/h would be fairly terminal - but then not that many would survive at 100 km/h here I suppose.

    Thanks mistareno for your views.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  12. #12
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    mistareno:
    .....On the other hand, people seem to forget that the speed limit on our roads is the 'maximum speed under ideal conditions' . Nothing pisses me of more (as both a cop and a driver) than people whose driving habits (and braking distances) refuses to change regardless of weather or traffic paterns. Luckily for these moronic fools, speed cameras don't have a d*#k head detector built in, if they did our road toll would surely plummet...
    And if they did, who would establish what one was?

    Again, the issue wouldn't be determined on facts, it would be determined on what could most readily be sold to the public.

    As for the speed limit being there only for ideal conditions (the implication of your sentence...), that's total rubbish. This is where the whole system falls down. Circumstances are constantly changing on our roads. There are sunsets, rain, heavier and lighter traffic, crosswinds and many other factors.

    The speed limits are set at the 'lowest common denominator' level and we have to bore ourselves spitless most of the time to keep to them.

    It was once legal to drive all the way from Sydney to Melbourne at whatever speed you liked outside the towns. I did that at around 85mph, usually, one night while hitch-hiking I learned that 105 made a much better job of getting you there... and that it could be done with absolute safety.

    From that time on, until the onset of the absolute limits, I did that. Without ever having any form of incident intruding on my numerous trips.

    Yet in those days we drove on Hardie Hi-Ways, had 9" drum brakes on our Holdens and in many other ways were not as capable of saying we had a margin for error as we can today.

    The speed limits are tripe!

    .....licencing system (if you can call it that). When Mr/Mrs New Driver gets his/her licence, they have usually had zero experience in any of what I consider to be the most important catagories:
    1:Emergency braking.(wet/dry)
    2:Hard braking whilst cornering at speed.(wet/dry)
    3:Slide control/prevention.
    You are, of course, absolutely correct.
    Again, an issue of being able to sell things to the public easily and doing nothing to address the disgraceful mismanagement of the nation's resources.

    Resources?

    Yes, the time we have available to productively carry on with our work and whatever we are doing.

    Not to mention that it's killing people...

  13. #13
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    I think you misunderstood Ray.
    I am saying exactly what your saying.

    The speed limit on a road is stated in law as being "the MAXIMUM speed allowable in ideal conditions"

    What this means is that if I saw a driver doing 100kph in a 100kph zone and I consider his driving to be dangerous for those conditions (usually through a series of events leading me to draw such a conclusion)e.g :weaving through traffic in heavy fog....

    The driver may not be breaking the speed limit according to the speed cameras, but I would give him a good kick up the butt (and the wallet)

    UFO wrote:

    The death rate on German roads is far less per km driven than elsThe death rate on German roads is far less per km driven than elsewhere. However I would imagine that having a prang at 250 km/h would be fairly terminal - but then not that many would survive at 100 km/h here I suppose.
    ewhere. However I would imagine that having a prang at 250 km/h would be fairly terminal - but then not that many would survive at 100 km/h here I suppose.

    The strange thing is, that as Autobahns have concrete/steel barriers at there edges, it is quite hard to get a high "angle of attack" with the wall. If you are doing 200kph+, and steered to avoid something, even a total loss of control would most likely result in a heavy glance with a wall. This is the basic physics law of inertia: An object will stay at rest or in uniform motion unless acted on by an external force.

    The external force is the steering input(mechanical grip from the tyres) whereas the uniform motion is 1500kgs of metal moving at 200+kph.

    Unless you consiously tried to steer from outside lane into the wall on the inside lane, it would be very hard to generate enough decelerational load to cause a serious trauma.

    Obvioiusly, hitting a stationary car at 250 clicks could cause some slight problems.........At least you die warm with the engine in yor lap.....

  14. #14
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Most cars are designed so that then engine will go under you in an impact of any real magnitude.

    No, I don't see that you were saying the same as I was. But maybe I've been driving too long.

    I reckon I've done more miles than six average people would drive in a lifetime.

    So what would I know?

  15. #15
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    QUOTE:As for the speed limit being there only for ideal conditions (the implication of your sentence...), that's total rubbish. This is where the whole system falls down. Circumstances are constantly changing on our roads. There are sunsets, rain, heavier and lighter traffic, crosswinds and many other factors.

    Thats right, and if your in a 100kph zone, then the limit is 100kph in fine weather, good visibility, light traffic etc...

    Any sunsets, rain, heavier and lighter traffic, crosswinds will of course mean that 100kph is no longer considered safe....

    Unless you disagree with the above (in which case I don't want you driving anywhere near me on the road) then re-read the original post. It's exactly the same.I didn't think I had to spell it out quite so much...

    Of course the speed limits are set for the lowest common denominator. I would rather 75% of people drive within themselves than 25% of people drive beyond themselves....You can please some of the people most of the time, most of the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time....

    Keep the hard driving to the track and slow down, then no one will have anything to whinge about...

    As for lots of KM's....It matter's not unless you have ESP with surrounding drivers. I have only been driving for 10 years, but I have always driven daily atleast 50km's from work. I have never put a scratch on any car I have ever driven.

    The matter will be reported and you may recieve a penalty notice in the mail....

  16. #16
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I'm very much afraid you miss the point. And in a big way...

    Saying that 100kmh is the limit for good conditions and that any change in conditions is inane.

    So is putting up any incentive for people who want to drive faster than they feel they'd like to drive inane.

    First, we have roads of all kinds in terrain of all kinds included in those 100kmh roads. Six lane highways to twisty mountain roads... how can you say that it's only safe in ideal conditions on the six lane highway when it's got the same speed limit as the twisty mountain road... that might also be gravel.

    Please read my earlier posts about the reality of the situation. Absolute speed limits do encourage, possibly force some, people to drive beyond themselves. I don't want that either!

    The safest speed for anyone at any time is the fastest speed at which they feel comfortable, taking into account all present factors.

    For some that might be 80kmh, for others it might be 180kmh. Do you know how easy, how effortless, how safe it is for someone doing 180 to pass someone doing 80?

    And do you realise how potentially unsafe it is for someone capable of doing 180 to be dragging the chain at 105 and trying to not exceed this as they struggle to find an opportunity to pass someone who wants to be doing 80 and is going into the depths of his or her abilities to scratch up to 95 or 98?

    Do yourself a favour, go to the NT and drive on the derestricted roads for a day or so, get up a clip of speed and see how nice it is and how safe it is to pass slower cars that allow you to pass.

    And then go home and get your pencil sharpened to book the dangerous drivers who are constantly getting away with preventing others from passing them!

  17. #17
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    Which part of a very basic law don't you understand???

    It is a maximum LIMIT.

    What Incentive did I metion!!!

    For the third time:

    If for some reason a driver does not consider it safe to do that speed then he or she should drive at the speed that they feel safe doing.

    It is a MAXIMUM LIMIT for the section of road covered by those signs. And you can only do that maximum speed under IDEAL CONDITIONS...Obviously a gravel road is not an ideal condition...

    You obviously have trouble grasping the LIMIT concept.

    It LIMIT's you to a maximum LEGAL speed of 100KPH under IDEAL CONDITIONS.

    It does not mean you have to travel at 100KPH. If you have done as many KMs as you say, I thought you would have found that out by now...

    It is an easily understood basic road law.

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    No, it's you who lacks understanding.

    I never said that the limit obliges anyone to go to 100kmh, but it does induce them to do so.

    And don't come at that business about a gravel surface not being an 'ideal condition'... you are beginning to sound more and more like a cop all the time.

    There are many gravel roads that are quite safe to jaunt along on at well over 100kmh in the right car. And with the right driver.

    The problem with today's system is that very few will ever become 'right drivers' because the system works against them ever learning anything.

    My comparison point is between outright speed limits and prima-facie limits as used to exist. They were safer because there was never any pressure to go faster than you felt safe.

    Having an outright limit implies that that is a safe speed. Hence people incapable of keeping pace with what's going on at that speed are induced to go beyond their limits.

    What part of that don't you understand?

  19. #19
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    Ray Bell:
    No, it's you who lacks understanding.

    I never said that the limit obliges anyone to go to 100kmh, but it does induce them to do so.

    And don't come at that business about a gravel surface not being an 'ideal condition'... you are beginning to sound more and more like a cop all the time.

    There are many gravel roads that are quite safe to jaunt along on at well over 100kmh in the right car. And with the right driver.

    The problem with today's system is that very few will ever become 'right drivers' because the system works against them ever learning anything.

    My comparison point is between outright speed limits and prima-facie limits as used to exist. They were safer because there was never any pressure to go faster than you felt safe.

    Having an outright limit implies that that is a safe speed. Hence people incapable of keeping pace with what's going on at that speed are induced to go beyond their limits.

    What part of that don't you understand?
    Ill reply to each paragraph:
    1.The only reason people get "induced" to travel at the speed limit when they feel uncomfortable is by impatiant people pushing them along. Will it really matter if you get to your destination 15 minutes later...

    2&3.Gravel by it's very nature is an unstable road surface. There is often variable grip levels between corners, not to mention a greater possibility of tyre damage and increase stopping distance and directional stability under braking. I suppose you are the "right driver", it is that kind of over confidence that leads to accidents.

    4. Whilst I agrre the system (licencing) is flawed, letting people drive to what they think their limits are, as you imply, is paramount to russian roulette.Most people learn by mistakes or controlled mistakes (ie advanced driving courses). Learning something for the first time on a road will often result in an accident.

    5. Prima facie speed limit's!!! All very well if you know the road ahead and have ESP. Prima facie means, 'at first sight'. As I am sure you would know with your 1000000 km expierence. Driving is full of variables (even from day to day on the same stretch of road) some of which can never be forseen or avoided, no matter how good a driver you THINK you are (especially at a 180kph).

    6. And here we are back at the old 'Outright speed limit' thing again. There is no such thing as a minimum speed limit is there??? The laws are in place for the lowest common denominator, and as far as the politicians are concerned, rather have people crash at 100kph than 180kph.

    It may not be fair for someone of your imense driving and ESP talents, but they can't make laws for everyone.

    P.S. I have sent several letters to my superiors asking them to consider variable speed limits (ie: higher limit at times of low traffic volumes) but have recieved no response.

    If everyone else can stick to the speed limit, surely you could to. But then you would have nothing to whinge about when you get a ticket...

    P.S, we dont live in N.T so don't dilute your argument with garbage.

    What part of that don't you understand?

  20. #20
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    If, as you said before, the 100kmh limit is the maximum advisable for the perfect road in perfect conditions, why have you asked for higher limits?

    And I rarely see 180kmh. I don't think I have for over fifteen years. That, like so many other things I mentioned, was an example.

    Of course, I can see you still haven't read my early posts. The facts speak for themselves... heavily policed outright speed limits kill people.

    Of course I know that conditions vary... why do you think the phrase 'at which he feels comfortable' is in my ideal for safe driving?

    You must learn to read the words I write.

    Also to stop trying to denigrate me. It's you who raised the issue of ESP, not me... I don't suggest for a second that I have it.

    And you're right, pressure is applied to put people's speed up. Pressure that wouldn't be there if there were prima facie limits and overtaking were more readily safely achieved.

    The Northern Territory experience is important because it's the last bastion of this kind of limit in this country. It's different, it's comfortable, it's safe.

    That's the main point, safety.

  21. #21
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    If the posted limits actually MEANT something rather than just being arbitrary figures plucked out of some bureaucrats ass people may have more respect for them.
    There appears to be no scientific method or logic used in deriving these figures at all, just arbritary numbers seperated from each other by 20. 40-60-80-100 etc.
    However when it comes to enforcement of these "limits" you're up against everthing that science and technology can throw at you in the form of doppler radars, lasers etc (but you can't have your own technology in the form of a radar detector for instance, oh no, that's illegal and illegal is un-Australian, yawn).
    It just don't make sense.
    So what do we get? Moronic expressions like "Well if you don't speed you won't get booked" Christ, I'd like a dollar for everytime I've heard that one.
    I couldn't be a cop, the torment and hippocracy would just kill me.
    I don't know what the answer is but you're right, the limits *are* tripe.
    moon

  22. #22
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    There are also 70 and 90 areas... all of which adds to the total confusion that can exist.

    Way back, David McKay took the NSW Minister for Transport (Milton Morris) for a drive to Melbourne in a nice V8-powered car of the day to show him the state of the road and the confusion caused by the ever-changing limits of the time.

    He got his point across... of course, he had to, the whole thing was written up on the most-read motoring page of the era.

    But it didn't change things.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts tekkie's Avatar
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    Ray,
    I'd have to take the softer point of view from yours.
    Speed limits are there and the boys in blue have been asked to enforce them. Since its such a brilliant money making venture cameras both stationary and mobile are employed as well.
    At least some of the police understand that whilst speed is the killer there are other factors involved as well and they all do not blindly follow the 101km/h-and-your-are-the-criminal rule. And that is refreshing to know.
    Ray, lets not kid ourselves that speeding is safe as people will start to follow your 180km car cause they think they can and you become the instigator of their unsafe driving - humans have a herd mentality unfortunately.
    Having said that I dont think a day has passed that I managed to keep myself to within the absolute speed limits. And whilst I may have done stupid things I recognise dangerous situation when I see one and it irritates me to getting booked for 107 in the 100 zone on the divided hwy on a clear day with no other traffic on te road. Sigh... at least its a lesser chance of getting wiped out by a hoon doing uncontrolled 150km/h in the opposite direction... being chased by the police for last 15 kms... but thats another topic

    <small>[ 05 February 2003, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: tekkie ]</small>
    .
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  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Notwithstanding all other issues... having police out there whose main requirement is to fill a budget is just plain wrong.

    The problem is, it's easier to write up and easier to prove speeding. The machine does it all these days.

    But to book someone for accelerating while being overtaken, a patently dangerous and illegal move, is difficult.

    Therein lies my main problem... another driver is allowed to constantly practice something that one day may kill me, but I'm not allowed to drive at a speed that helps me get to where I'm going more comfortably and more refreshed, no matter how safe it is.

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    what an interesting topic. I agree with mistareno, I also agree with everyone else. First things first, 3km/h margin is absolute crap, that's what started this thread, and no matter what way you look at it, it's NOTHING OTHER THAN REVENUE RAISING.

    As for speed limits, blame the people that set them, I can show you a local road here, posted at 100km/h. It the most broken up, piece of sh!+ single lane bitchamen road you have ever seen. Basicly it'd be much safer as a graded level gravel road. It's considered safe for me to do 100km/h on this (I'd probably destroy the alloy rims on my car & cut the side walls out of the tires). Now on the tediously looooooonnnnnnngggggg straight roads driving from Ballarat to Mildura I'm consider unsafe driving at 103km/h with no car in sight, and me being able to see almost from horizon to horizon both infront & behind. Not other cars anywhere.

    To be honest, 10 years ago when I was 18 I used to sit on the 100mph range a lot of the way there. Last time I sat on 120km/h. I was booked by a police car hidden in a specialy cuttout section of trees (looks like a dozer had gone along & cut it out so the police car was hidden from both directions on an incredibly long straight bit of road). Fair enough, my first ever speeding fine, I WAS over the limit deliberatly. But driving unsafely??? Not a hope in hell mallet mallet

    I doubt if there's a speeding related death/crash on those roads, people falling asleep from the tedioulsy boring 98km/h crawl??? Yeah, probably daily ....

    It's not the fault of the police, get the laws the police must enforce changed. There just doing there job...

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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