BA Falcon - too powerful?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    BA Falcon - too powerful?

    Got to take our new BA Falcon wagon on a 1000km run up north this week - holy crap these things are scary fast. Put the boot in to overtake a truck and you can feel the leaf springs (I know - when will they learn? At least the sedans have finaly got a contempory rear end) twist up under the load and wiggle the cars rear about. Which is a worry when youre doing 160kph and motor is still pulling very hard! Its all good fun though.

    And thats a dedicated LPG wagon - I hate to to think how quick a petrol sedan is! Aparently the turbo XR6 has 220kw and the new quad cam V8 260kw which I reckon is far too much for most drivers out there.

    I got to say though, the Falcon is finally a nice place to spend a day in. A very likable interior with a euro feel about (many of the styling cues pinched from the latest Mondeo) Decent seats which dont kill my back - at last.
    The motor is sensational - stupidly powerful, but for the first time for a Falcon its responsive and revvy, and with twin cams, VCT and a stainless exhaust (I know, I was surprised too) it sounds great when given a bit of stick.

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    Not about froggy cars I know, but its interesting to see the aussie stuff not nearly as far behind the game as they used to be....
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  2. #2
    t
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    apparently the the xr6 has 240 kilowatts, and its detuned because it originally had more power than the xr8. Thats serious power from a reworked straight six. moon whip

  3. #3
    Cal
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    I hear the new Saab 9-5 goes good too! :p

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  4. #4
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    With up to 184kW you'd hope so!

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    UFO
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    Ooh er, someone said the S word....

    We have a new chooktin wagon here too (at work) but it is petrol as the boss was paranoid about gas.

    I have not driven it further than 50k from the office yet but am also impressed with the vast improvement over the old model. Much better seats (perhaps they went to France to learn to design them) and yes the engine has more punch.

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  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I had a look at a website about the BA - apparently the "E Gas" motor "only" has 153 kw. Feels like a lot more, or am I just used to small froggy motors?!! They did a lot for the gas motor though, upped comp. ratio from 9.7 to 10.7 and made a dedicated ECU for gas.

    I hate to think whats going to happen when an inexperienced rich kid gets an XR6 for his P plates. It will only end in tears. I reckon its about time these car companies got a bit less obsessed with the whole more must be better thing when it comes to engines. Take a leaf out the froggy manufacturers book - they know how to make a car very enjoyable without needing to slam you back in the seats!
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  7. #7
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    Haakon:

    I hate to think whats going to happen when an inexperienced rich kid gets an XR6 for his P plates. It will only end in tears.
    hey may get a feeling of euphoria just like this :-)

    Haakon:
    Which is a worry when youre doing 160kph and motor is still pulling very hard! Its all good fun though.

    ....
    I wonder what happens to the emission control at such high speeds..... :-)
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  8. #8
    Simon's Avatar
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    Realistically though, it doesn't have to be a Falcon XR6, any car can be dangerous in inexperienced hands if used inappropriately.
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    ....take the Renault 8 Gordini for example. dance
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    I have been a passenger in a XR6 Turbo and they certainly do go. There were 5 in the car, the car was a week old, and the driver didn't push it but you could feel the torque from low in the rev range just keep pulling.

    And the interiors are very nice, especially the leather option. Unfortunately the one I went in didn't have leather.

    As far as the "the car is too fast" question goes, who says its too fast. I've been in a Gemini that was faster than one of these. Should all modified cars be banned ???

    I certainly don't want to hear anything start up again like what we had with the "Muscle Car" situation in the 70's. Our technology and car building techniques have kept going forward to produce the cars we have today. Why would you want to halt this progress. Better brakes and engines etc etc filter down from the top level cars to the lower levels. The lower level cars would become even more a deathtrap than some of them already are.

    Like, has anyone driven a 121 Metro ??? Oh my god !!! mallet

    cheers!
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    ....[/qb][/QUOTE]I wonder what happens to the emission control at such high speeds..... :-)[/QB][/QUOTE]

    Chuckle, chuckle! I was waiting for the EPA reference. wink I wasnt actually intending to be going that quick, I just put the boot in to get around a B double and it just launched itself - I just hung on!! But you are dead right, the EPA really shouldnt be driving these monsters about, but in typical beuracratic style its done because they get good fleet deals on Fords (though there was an internal decision made to go to LPG cars for emmision reasons and only Ford offer dedicated LPG for fleets.)

    All good points re. inexperienced drivers. I reckon one of the scariest (and most dangerous)cars I've driven is the old Datto 120 why?, a favorite with p platers for years....
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  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Haakon:
    Chuckle, chuckle! I was waiting for the EPA reference. wink I wasnt actually intending to be going that quick, I just put the boot in to get around a B double and it just launched itself - I just hung on!! But you are dead right, the EPA really shouldnt be driving these monsters about, but in typical beuracratic style its done because they get good fleet deals on Fords (though there was an internal decision made to go to LPG cars for emmision reasons and only Ford offer dedicated LPG for fleets.)

    All good points re. inexperienced drivers. I reckon one of the scariest (and most dangerous)cars I've driven is the old Datto 120 why?, a favorite with p platers for years....
    I hate to sound sarcastic here but you can't be serious !!! eek! To say that an LPG equipped 1600kg Ford wagon with 153kw "launched itself" is quite ridiculous. If you honestly believe this then you have never driven a car with any power.

    And to be called a "monster" is just as bad. Maybe because of its weight, but not because it is a terrifyingly quick vehicle.

    Also, LPG produce such low levels of emissions that they allow you to do ANY mods that you like. The EPA are in fact using the most environmentally friendly fuel BY THEIR STANDARDS that they possibly could, without resorting to electric powered vehicles.

    cheers!
    Darren

    <small>[ 24 January 2003, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: YEL020 ]</small>

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    YEL020:
    ...Our technology and car building techniques have kept going forward to produce the cars we have today. Why would you want to halt this progress. Better brakes and engines etc etc filter down from the top level cars to the lower levels. The lower level cars would become even more a deathtrap than some of them already are...
    Well, SOME companies go forward, leaf springs on the Falcon Wagon in 2003...
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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    The reason why manufacturers use leaf springs in the utes and station wagons is because of their load carrying benefits.

    I read that Ford will be removing the wagon from the lineup anyway.

    cheers!
    Darren

  15. #15
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    which is why the Falcon Ute is so popular with tradies. The ute can carry a heap more than the Commodore or 4 cylinder rivals.
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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    "Well, SOME companies go forward, leaf springs on the Falcon Wagon in 2003... "

    I heard that when the new IRS is adapted for the long wheelbase next gen Fairlane, the wagons will get it too, but thats only a rumor. What ever they do, the leaf springs have got to go. They make for very unpredictable handling and traction that gos out for lunch just when you really need it on bumpy corners.

    YEL020 - Ive driven a certain german sports car on Autobarns - I do know about driving powerful cars at speed. Do you not know a little poetic licence when you see it? The BA gos very well for its power to weight if only because it quite responsive and the VCT gives it a very flat torque curve which allows to just keep on pulling!

    And I still dont buy the argument that just because its LPG it must be good for the environment - its still producing the full whack of greenhouse gases that you get when you burn 14 litres of fuel every 100 k's. A little more drought and bushfires and floods and sea level rise anyone? I'll keep my weedy little 4 pot.
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    YEL020:
    The reason why manufacturers use leaf springs in the utes and station wagons is because of their load carrying benefits.
    That sounds dangerously close to being a really poor marketing excuse for their continued use!

    I'll accept the argument for the ute, but the Wagon.. hmm... not exactly marketed as a trade vehicle...
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    ..comon guys..whats wrong with the leaf springs...where is the aussie spirit..my 300 year old trailer has them and it handles so predicatbly...just like a trailer should....you dont hear the albanians complaining about them either..very reliable on their horsedrawn carts...
    CAR magazine might be using the albanian horsedrawn cart in their next comparo which will feature a hsv coomodore vs mack truck vs jeep vs
    matiz vs NEW MICRA (no not new polo or festiva) vs ....wait for it the PUG 206 (all cars said to be in the same class and vintage)
    ....sorry my mind is still on another post......

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! MYT205's Avatar
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    Quite frankly I agree with you all that the leaf springs are shocking.

    I'm just regurgitating what they spurt out to us consumers.

    cheers!
    Darren

  20. #20
    who? when? huh? GTI124's Avatar
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    you kack me up Dino. Got some issues with the new micra there?

    Anyway, the IRS in a Station Wagon? I hadn't heard that rumour. Do you think the general public care that there are leaf springs under there? Few of them would even know what one was. Wagons are a dying breed, which is further reinforced by Ford's decision to build a Falcon based 4WD.

    So, where's the frog hiding here?
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  21. #21
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  22. #22
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    403 wagons had leaf springs...

    404 utes and 504 utes had leaf springs.

    They don't have to be all bad.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts Europa's Avatar
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    Ray Bell:
    403 wagons had leaf springs...

    404 utes and 504 utes had leaf springs.

    They don't have to be all bad.
    I'm thinking of their use in 2003 on a non-commercial vehicle...
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  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Again, it depends on how they're used.

    They can be, after all, divorced from the axle location duties that cause all the grief.

  25. #25
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    really in todays day and age i can't see why car makers are still persisting in using leaf springs in wagons when they generally do not carry the loads that utes do
    leaf springs are what horse carts use don't they ?
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