No safer after six years
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  1. #1
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    Default No safer after six years

    spotted in Saturdays Age 25 Feb.
    The Victorian road toll to Feb. 19 stood at 49, the same as in 2005. If we backpedal to Feb. 19, 2000, we'd discover that 45 Victorians had died on the state's roads that year - four fewer. So what does that say about the "success" of the Victorian Government's punitive road safety programs?

    My answer - it's great revenue generator and looks like doing something to reduce road death.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo
    spotted in Saturdays Age 25 Feb.
    My answer - it's great revenue generator and looks like doing something to reduce road death.
    Great revenue raiser and that's it, has had no effect at all on the road toll !!!!

    Their are measures that could be taken to REALLY reduce the road toll but that would be counterproductive in terms of revenue raising !!!!

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    Fellow Frogger! John505's Avatar
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    Are you both saying that over the space of five years there has not been a great increase in traffic density with more millions of cars on Australia's roads? Considering that must be true, the current road fatality figure must in real terms be a reduction since 2000.
    John505

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    Quote Originally Posted by John505
    Are you both saying that over the space of five years there has not been a great increase in traffic density with more millions of cars on Australia's roads? Considering that must be true, the current road fatality figure must in real terms be a reduction since 2000.
    John505
    Sounds like they got you too.

    It's all to do with public perception and promotion by speed camera companies.

    This is a quote from a PR company


    "Sharon Beder, 'Public Relations' Role in Manufacturing Artificial Grass Roots Coalitions', Public Relations Quarterly 43(2), Summer 98, pp. 21-3
    This is a final version submitted for publication. Minor editorial changes may have subsequently been made.
    When a corporation wants to oppose environmental regulations, or support an environmentally damaging development, it may do so openly and in its own name. But it is far more effective to have a group of citizens or experts -- and preferably a coalition of such groups -- which can publicly promote the outcomes desired by the corporation while claiming to represent the public interest. When such groups do not already exist, the modern corporation can pay a public relations firm to create them."


    This is as it relates to Councils but same things apply to all Government bodies these days.
    We no longer are governed by the Politicians we elect, we are controlled by representitives of large corporations pushing their own barrows.
    This isn't "conspiracy theories" it's hard cold fact. Look at the drug industry mistakenly called the Health industry. What percentage of annual budgets goes to keeping drug companies wealthy? As a comparison, how much goes into "preventitive medicine" or healthy lifestayles? Almost zilch. Doctors "practice" and "Treat" but how many cure?
    Same thing with this stuff; it's got absolutely nothing to do with Road safety and saving lives, it's all about balancing budgets and this is a lesson from the ones who organise it that was in one of their journals.
    http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/sbeder/PR.html

    So next time you see a Polly or a "Road safety" group on TV, ask yourself....are they for real?
    After reading that, you'd have to wonder, and this is why I referred to the "Overseas experts" (reps of Speed camera companies) in my letter to the dodgy politicians and the papers.


    Alan S
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    This isn't "conspiracy theories" it's hard cold fact. Look at the drug industry mistakenly called the Health industry. What percentage of annual budgets goes to keeping drug companies wealthy? As a comparison, how much goes into "preventitive medicine" or healthy lifestayles? Almost zilch. Doctors "practice" and "Treat" but how many cure?
    Alan S
    I used to work for a large Pharma...
    Do you know the % of drugs that actaully make them money?
    Only 1 in 3 on the shevles will actually make a profit!

    Lots of other good numbers too, but cant remember them off the top of the noggin...

    but yeah, having sales reps visit doctors... WTF is with that!!!

  6. #6
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    Default Honesty is not a Government necessity.

    Quote Originally Posted by John505
    Are you both saying that over the space of five years there has not been a great increase in traffic density with more millions of cars on Australia's roads? Considering that must be true, the current road fatality figure must in real terms be a reduction since 2000.
    John505
    John

    Fair to say that the road toll this year in Victoria would have been much higher if not for the extra policing effort over the past six months to target an identified backlash against the reliance on "speed cameras" as they relate to road safety.

    Road users quite easily discovered the reduced patrolling activity (police visibly patrolling the road network) and disbelieving Government total reliance on road safety cameras to deter high level speeders.

    After all speed cameras, don't patrol, don't apprehend, and if you are young and smart you know when and where they are used, so it was so easy to show contempt and bravado by speeding whenever and where ever you knew you could get away with it - peer pressure, piss, speed and inexperience did the rest and young fatalities were on the rise.

    This whole cocktail of events was fueled by the published facts that the majority of speeders booked by the cameras represented the lowest margin of speeders who strayed a few kilometres over the arbitary threshold - great for revenue as they just paid up, even if they didn't think they were speeding, but with no interception or visual warning of the infringement, how could they fight big brother camera - its always right (or is it!!)

    The debacle of the "faulty" cameras/ and their continued operation while the government was in denial, for six months and then special legislation passed to protect the government from claims - how one sided - protect the public purse, not the motorist, doesn't matter that we have destroyed the integrity of what was a significant part of the policing and road safety strategy structure.

    Despite public unrest, tempered by anti speed - anti motor car groups and in urgent need of revenue the same mistake was made to concentrate on more "safety" cameras rather than basic visible policing. hence a growing road toll and alarm by the government that it would be exposed again!!

    Special and well publicised police traffic enforcement efforts booked hundreds of speeding motorists far in excess of highway and byway speed zones.

    The highly publicised and visible saturation policing at all hours bought the rising road toll under control and prevented another disasterous result for the Victorian government, but it didn't stop the cheeky [email protected]@gers flagging the result as a vindication of their "safety Camera" campaign - spin doctoring at its worst!

    Now stand by for the election year revelations as steve re-discovers visible policing as an issue,re-direction of camera fines direct to road safety (while cutting traditional funding sources) (thimble and pea trick!!) and more of the million dollar "you have never had it so good" adverts.

    I wonder if he will even consider displaying speeds to motorists as they pass his wonderful cameras or are they too innacurate to risk that!! That at least would be visible and help motorists check their speedometers against big brother.

    Might even restore motorists confidence and courtesy on the roads and help reduce the road toll!!

    Road Safety is a true partnership and honest fair dealing and a recognition that the majority of motorists are responsible and courteous if not treated in a discourteous manner as a cash cow for manipulation and revenue supplementation.

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    Allan

    That was a great article well worth reading for any who have not.
    In Australia and I know this is off the topic but relates to the article.

    There is a nice warm and fuzzy pet supporter- a very helpful group. They are funded by petfood industry!!!!!!!!!!!!! They do a very good job but it does not stop there.

    The influence they have on law making is extreme!!!!!!!!!

    They pay for research which always goes their way MMMMMMMMMM ( Now theres a surprise).
    Then use this to stifle or manipulate debate.

    For example I found that most complaints re cats in the city were on nuisance value. This organisation has research on the number of wild life killed by cats (very minimal) and the debate rages on this right off topic.

    They provide funding for National Conferences. I had to get on the organising board and be the principle organiser to get groundbraking research which did not go with the corporate philosophy onto the stage. For seven years this researcher had been prevented from presenting the topic which they saw as negative.

    This groups major unstated aim is to ensure that cans of petfod sell! The front group does not in anyway portray this.


    Graelin
    Last edited by Graelin; 26th February 2006 at 01:17 PM.

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    Not meaning to make a comment in bad taste, but the multiple fatality in Victoria last week by a guy who they reckon is a "seriel offender"
    Would a speed camera have prevented this had one been placed 100 meters from the scene and if it had apprehended him, what would it have cost him financially and how far would he have driven before he got the fine?
    Alternatively, a copper on patrol would have stopped him if seen driving erratically and if he was incapable for any reason to be properly in control of the vehicle, he would have pulled him on the spot.
    As I say, not capitalising on misfortune and sad tragedies, but it's a fact.
    Every time there's a "Summit" or an "Inquiry" all the same old faces appear all pushing the same self serving strategies.
    "Overseas experts" - Think speed camera companies talking totally impractical assumptions for Australia.
    "Motoring Bodies". - Think Artificial grassroots coalitions supporting the 'Overseas experts" recommendations as well as State based clubs ready to agree with Governments who suppport them with Grants and subsidies.
    "Driving School industry" - Who always convey the opinion that everybody should be made by law to learn to drive via a driving school and that nobody else is capable of doing the job.
    "Academics" - supporting whatever the Government proposes and trying to ad some legitimacy to the spin doctors arguments. Reliant on Government grants to maintain their somewhat shaky existence in Unis and often supported financially by vested interest groups in the form of requests for "scientific research" into whatever product they are trying to sell.
    All the above have something to gain by following what the government wants to see happen and while that exists, people will continue to be killed and maimed, Pollies will continue to use the pain of others to assist the profits of big business by doing as Queensland has just done and used the Christmas road toll to bring in more brainless draconian laws and Public Servants prompted by pressure from spin doctor organisations working for the vested interests will continue to advise Pollies to do these things whilst they continue to Empire build within their own departments; as I say, all to do with money; nothing to do with safety.
    First dry spell of weather when figures drop, they claim it as a succes. First wet spell when figures rise, they start talking draconian laws again.
    I reckon I can read these dodgy Governemnt authorities like a book when I can supply them with an almost verbatim copy of their report 2 days prior to the completion of an Inquiry and if I can do it, surely there's a lot of others capable.


    Alan S
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    Icon3 Thank god I'm not a piece of Astro turf!!

    Thanks Alan for posting that link - makes you think, and then you understand a little better the how and why of things like the Fuel debate and why we little guys get inundated with a load of crap - its really loaded against the truth coming out.

    You may have a gut feeling you are getting ripped off but can't find any definitive facts (at least of recent origin) to support that strong feeling. Its all industry supplied. so called facts, spin doctored for regurgitation by the well meaning, helping push the industry wheel barrow.

    In the case of the so called "road safety" debate, there are far too many vested interests making huge money out of roads,road building and sorry to say road trauma - it is a real big money industry and I hate the way governments have twisted the issues - from a mutual responsibility to work with motorists, to a one sided income stream that skews their thinking and devalues the motorist.

    There is a warning in there not to be used as a piece of "astro turf" as governments shift and shirk reponsibily and spin doctors create groundswells in "popular" support of their ideology.

    You can see why Pauline Hanson had no chance against likes of Abbott, the rent a gangs organised to disrupt her meetings, pity she didn't have the same advisers and organisation plus a good political speaking voice to rationally and clearly present her view - doomed from the start of her popularity with the mums and dads of Australia!

    Shows also that we have to be mindful we aren't used by the same organisations and why I don't subscribe to any of them.

    They do say we deserve the politicians we elect to serve us, and time to remind them of honesty, truth in the process.
    Ken

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    1000+ Posts The Gonz's Avatar
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    Icon10 Priceless

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    :This is a quote from a PR company
    http://www.uow.edu.au/arts/sts/sbeder/PR.html
    Alan S
    Priceless, Alan. Should be required reading for every potential thinker

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    Fully agree with Alan S and Ken (while the Pauline Habson remark may be controversial, but after listening to her for 50 min on ABC talkback it was obvious that her views were massively distorted by the chattering class and media).
    Will read the link from Goz when i'm less tired.
    Never understood why all that revenue is not applied to 'black' spots. Maybe it's just because we have some nurds running things.

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    Could be because when mixed with gaming revenue, in 'general accounts', it helps to bring forward that much favoured economic term 'surplus'.

    ed ge

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    XTC
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    And who do you think is pushing drinking bottled water ?

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...70303250.html?

    Regardless how many "thinking men/women" there are, they are still out numbered 5:1 by imbeciles.

    - xTc -
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    And who do you think is pushing drinking bottled water ?

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...70303250.html?

    Regardless how many "thinking men/women" there are, they are still out numbered 5:1 by imbeciles.

    - xTc -
    Couldn't agree more. Drinking local water also gives us added immunity to 'bugs' common to the locality as well. Bottled water is often high in salts - that's why it is tastier to most people.
    I always drink local water but let it stand to allow the chlorination to evaporate.

  15. #15
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    Icon14 Quite happy with my bottled water!

    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    And who do you think is pushing drinking bottled water ?

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...70303250.html?

    Regardless how many "thinking men/women" there are, they are still out numbered 5:1 by imbeciles.

    - xTc -
    When we first came to Melbourne, the water supply was just so pure and sweet to drink, but over the years the quality has dropped (or my taste has changed dramatically )

    For a while we coped with using a small filter jug, but this was a bit of a pain and constant change of the filters that became more and more expensive and then would not fit the jug!! [email protected]@ger!!

    We then bought a Stephni water filter that sits on the edge of the kitchen counter, you fill it with about 4 or 5 litres of water and it seeps through the ceramic filter to a reservoir below - best thing we ever bought, clean sweet water - you just have to remember to top it up occasionally.

    We re-use our poptop water bottles and always take them with us full of our own clean sweet water and as good if not better than most water on sale in supermarkets!!

    After a few years the water filter has saved us heaps of money - top product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    And who do you think is pushing drinking bottled water ?

    http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...70303250.html?

    Regardless how many "thinking men/women" there are, they are still out numbered 5:1 by imbeciles.

    - xTc -
    Its a convenience thing. I think its a bit harsh to deride people for not carrying a bottle of water everywhere as an imbecile. Many places will only sell you a bottle, rather than giving you a glass, also.

    I think its perfectly rational that people consume large amounts of bottled water, under the current circumstances.
    Tim

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    I'll be buying an under the sink filter...

    $100-$150, then a life long supply of fresh water (well new filters every year!)
    Then i gotta pay the $1 per 1000L litres or whatever it is i suppose, LOL...

    Carried bottled water?
    re-fill from the above mentioned device

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    What about emissions from plastic things used to carry the "purified" water? Aside - anyone who goes for plastic plumbing in a new house should read about how long you're supposed to flush it for.

    As for under-sink devices - check the filter prices and change intervals. Many people end up letting them go much longer than recommended, for one reason or another (inertia, cost)...

    Cheers, Adam.

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    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergetov
    Its a convenience thing. I think its a bit harsh to deride people for not carrying a bottle of water everywhere as an imbecile. Many places will only sell you a bottle, rather than giving you a glass, also.
    The imbecile wasn't directed at non-water carriers (you can't take it everywhere).

    It was suggesting regardless of the sample / topic, the "thinking man" probably only makes up around 20% of Joe Public. So what may seem perfectly explainable to you, the chances are many more people don't "get it".

    The water issue is interesting, in some states it's illegal to charge or refuse service for tap water at a restaurant. Though many will "try" to only serve you bottled water $$$$$. * Tap water at 27 degrees isn't very pleasant though.

    If you've ever done Gold Plate Awards reviews, the presence of free water, at the right temperature, clean taste (not out of the freezer H2O) AND at the right time is actually part of the judging. (it doesn't need to be bottled). And in times of promotion of responsible "drinking" it makes sense (but less money is made on alcohol).

    Personally I've used water filters over 15+ years, even in sports bottles. Avoid paying for it when possible.

    - xTc -
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  20. #20
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    Icon5 Just getting thethread back on Track

    Quote Originally Posted by JoBo
    spotted in Saturdays Age 25 Feb.
    The Victorian road toll to Feb. 19 stood at 49, the same as in 2005. If we backpedal to Feb. 19, 2000, we'd discover that 45 Victorians had died on the state's roads that year - four fewer. So what does that say about the "success" of the Victorian Government's punitive road safety programs?

    My answer - it's great revenue generator and looks like doing something to reduce road death.
    JoBo

    Collision stats are difficult to compare just year to year, and governments have been adept at lifting what suits them and their current campiagn.

    As alan says the weather (driving conditions) play a big part in the collision rate, wet = generally high and dry = generally low. That said there are just so many other factors, a series of multiple deaths (Mildura incident) will skew the figures.

    A steady upward or downward trend in road death rates may, indicate a positive or negative effect of some policing or safety innitiative (seat belt introduction) but care has to be taken that the sample isn't polluted or skewed to a desired initiative (speed cameras) when there has been other interventions bolstering the effect (saturation or targetted policing/media campaigns).

    The seat belt effect was an example of a "pure" event, some of the other trumpetted claims may not stand up to analysis and close scrutiny. The introduction and use of speed cameras did, have a very positive effect on our roads until the social engineers and bean counters got involved in the process.

    Unfortunately, they didn't allow for the reaction or the backlash bought on by their policies. Don't expect them to admit an error though, they will fight tooth and nail to regain the moral high ground using every trick in the book.

    Ken

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    Let's see if they pay attention. Closing roads to force people into the tunnel is simply criminal ..

    http://smh.com.au/news/national/reve...020060904.html

    Reverse tunnel road closures now: inquiry

    February 28, 2006 - 2:12PM

    The Roads and Traffic Authority must immediately reverse all unnecessary road closures related to the Cross City Tunnel and encourage the operator to reduce the toll, a NSW parliamentary report has recommended.

    The much anticipated report from the NSW Parliament's Joint Select Committee into the unpopular, problem-plagued motorway was tabled today.

    It highlighted widespread community anger over the project and recommended the Government take immediate action.

    "The committee has taken the decisive step of recommending that the RTA immediately reverse all roads closures that will not lead to a contractually imposed liability to pay compensation to the tunnel operators,'' said the report's chairman, the Reverend Fred Nile.

    "The committee has also recommended that the RTA encourage the CrossCity motorway company to reduce the toll.''

    The public has largely boycotted the roadway, which is being used by only 30,000 motorists a day - one-third of the numbers initially projected.

    The Government has been criticised over the cost of the toll, arrived at in its contract with the operators, as well as street closures on alternative routes.

    The current road toll of $3.56 should be cut to $2.90 to "improve patronage of the tunnel'', the inquiry recommended.

    "Road users have voted with their wheels in not using the tunnel,'' Mr Nile said.

    "There has been considerable community anger about the disruption caused by the changes to local streets in the central Sydney area.''

    Among its 17 recommendations, the inquiry said Bourke Street, in the inner city, should be reopened to the public when a trial closure of the street ends today.

    "If this recommendation is adopted there will be an immediate relaxation of the restrictions to the freedom of movement of people in cars moving through the surface streets of central Sydney,'' Mr Nile said.

    AAP
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




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