Non Fossil Fuel engine?
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  1. #1
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    Default Non Fossil Fuel engine?

    Most would have heard about the odd flour mill exploding when flour (or other suitable carbohydrates) become suspended in air and are then exposed to a spark.

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    What I was wondering is, has anyone ever tried to create an engine (of some sort) that can run on flour?

    It apparently only takes 1 or 2 grams of dust per cubic foot of air (50 or so grams per cubic meter) for the flour/air mixture to be ignitable so from a volume point of view would be reasonably feasible but does anyone know how much energy it produces per gram?

    Imagine running a car on Flour

    It'd be very safe. 100% Renewable and virtually every country could 'grow' their own fuel

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    The flour would make the car dirty but

    Try putting some in your tank and letting us know how it goes

    -- DJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ-Studd
    The flour would make the car dirty but

    Try putting some in your tank and letting us know how it goes

    -- DJ
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    I believe that Rudolph Diesel's first attempts to get the CI engine running were made using coal dust. Why he finished up using oil I dont know........

    Terry

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    Default Coal dust

    Yeah.. He got on to that by analyzing the cause of underground explosions in coal mines. If my memory serves me correctly, in the UK (North East where I was born) the miners called it "Black Damp" and it was the demise of many a Geordie pit man. There's no reason why coal dust couldn't be used again except it's a bit difficult to store and distribute!
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    Getting a little technically smart arse here (unlike me I know) but in fact some cars in Australia already run on flour - or a derivative of. It's called ethanol and that which is made by Manildra at Nowra I believe is made from wheat.

    I suppose though if you could make a car run on flour, it would save having a hydraulic system in a Citroen - you could use self raising flour!
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    Getting a little technically smart arse here (unlike me I know) but in fact some cars in Australia already run on flour - or a derivative of. It's called ethanol and that which is made by Manildra at Nowra I believe is made from wheat.

    I suppose though if you could make a car run on flour, it would save having a hydraulic system in a Citroen - you could use self raising flour!
    Yeah, but how much processing (via fuel using plants) is required before it is usable?

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO

    I suppose though if you could make a car run on flour, it would save having a hydraulic system in a Citroen - you could use self raising flour!
    Boom, Boom!!
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    G'day all,

    here is an engine that has multi-fuel compatibility and can use;

    a) Commercial Diesel Fuels, including low sulfer fuels, such as CARB Diesel
    b) NATO Military Spec Diesel Fuel
    c) Bio-Diesel (B20 or B100)
    d) Aviation Kerosene including JP4, JP5, JP8, and AVTR
    e) Kerosene

    http://www.m1030.com/models.htm
    regards,
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    If your theory works, we might see M1 tanks powered by flour.

    Flour power.

    To explain: M1 tanks are fitted with a gas turbine engine which enables them to run on any fuel they lay their hands on. Other tanks have used gas turbines M80 ( Soviet ) being the other large production one, plus a lesser known Chinese.

    http://members.aol.com/panzersgt/theory/Turbine.html
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    G'day,
    Its all to do with a single fuel.




    In the aftermath of Operation Desert Storm, military planners tackled the logistics nightmare of mixed ground, air and sea mobility platforms and support systems that mandated a numbing array of different fuel requirements across the battlefield. Together with NATO, much of the U.S. effort was directed toward the selection of a single kerosene-based fuel: JP/8 or JP/5 (also known as heavy fuel) as the fuel to be used in all military vehicles and auxiliary support systems.

    The logistics goal was formalized through Department of Defense guidance, including the April 1999 DoD directive 4140.25, which reads, in part, ďprimary fuel for land-based air and ground forces in all theaters shall be JP-8; for sea-based aircraft it shall be JP-5. To the maximum extent practical, no new combat support or combat service support equipment or vehicles requiring gasoline-type fuels will be acquired or developedÖĒ

    Although larger modern military platforms frequently feature diesel engines capable of using these mandated fuels, the DoD directive shifted the logistics challenge to the smaller size engines and platforms that are frequently employed in special operations types of missions.

    Don't you just like "larger modern military platforms". Must be military talk for bigger trucks.

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    During WW11 and after of the few cars that remained on the road many ran on wood. Not really but they had gas producers which ran on charcoal.

    Most were home made and there did not seem to be many blow ups causing injury etc.
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    An interesting article I read recently told of Porsche first car design. It was electric with motors in hubs.
    Second design was petrol driving electric motors in hubs. This was just after 1900.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tassiediesel
    Yeah.. He got on to that by analyzing the cause of underground explosions in coal mines. If my memory serves me correctly, in the UK (North East where I was born) the miners called it "Black Damp" and it was the demise of many a Geordie pit man. There's no reason why coal dust couldn't be used again except it's a bit difficult to store and distribute!
    G'day,
    you must be older than you look

    regards,
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    Default run it on beef by product

    Some items on Landline ABC this week include biofuels and creating bio gas from our four legged friends. Considering there is something like 24 million of these grass cutters in the country chances for making our own import replacement fuels are high. Repeats on Monday if you miss the sunday showing.
    http://www.abc.com.au/landline/
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    Getting a little technically smart arse here (unlike me I know) but in fact some cars in Australia already run on flour - or a derivative of. It's called ethanol and that which is made by Manildra at Nowra I believe is made from wheat.

    I suppose though if you could make a car run on flour, it would save having a hydraulic system in a Citroen - you could use self raising flour!

    Self Raising Flour can be made using Bi-Carb soda, so would the Citroen have to have 2 Carburetors?
    Terry


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    Quote Originally Posted by GavinS
    Some items on Landline ABC this week include biofuels and creating bio gas from our four legged friends. Considering there is something like 24 million of these grass cutters in the country chances for making our own import replacement fuels are high. Repeats on Monday if you miss the sunday showing.
    http://www.abc.com.au/landline/
    G'day,

    just the ticket

    http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/att...9&d=1136085198
    regards,
    Les W.


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  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! tasgill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tassiediesel
    Yeah.. He got on to that by analyzing the cause of underground explosions in coal mines. If my memory serves me correctly, in the UK (North East where I was born) the miners called it "Black Damp" and it was the demise of many a Geordie pit man. There's no reason why coal dust couldn't be used again except it's a bit difficult to store and distribute!
    Black damp I believe is carbon dioxide, fire damp is methane, both deadly in a coal mine.

    Terry

    South Blackwater underground coal mine early 70's....

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    Quote Originally Posted by tasgill
    I believe that Rudolph Diesel's first attempts to get the CI engine running were made using coal dust. Why he finished up using oil I dont know........

    Terry
    My brother,( the one in the family who realy knows his s##t) was working as an engineer on an ore carrier, and the engines were fed parasiticly from the coal in the holds.Huge extractor fans would suck air through the hold and pick up enough dust to run the ship. Something for nothing, it appears.
    Jo

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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    My brother,( the one in the family who realy knows his s##t) was working as an engineer on an ore carrier, and the engines were fed parasiticly from the coal in the holds.Huge extractor fans would suck air through the hold and pick up enough dust to run the ship. Something for nothing, it appears.
    Jo
    The CNG ships which run out of Port Headland to Japan etc are gas turbine powered off the pressure waste from the gas tanks. Apparently they store enough on board to get back to Port Headland. Some of the technology used in large scale engines is very clever. But that I suppose is where the secret is, having the scale of operation and the ability to service the fuel requirements for that specific purpose.

    Now if I could just work out a way to power an XM from the pressure waste from Hungry Jacks Onion Rings
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    Quote Originally Posted by tasgill
    Black damp I believe is carbon dioxide, fire damp is methane, both deadly in a coal mine.

    Terry

    South Blackwater underground coal mine early 70's....
    Thanks for correcting me, Terry. As I said, my memory isn't that reliable (and I lived there 40 years ago!) But I'm right about the coal dust explosion hazard, ain't I???
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    [QUOTE=tassiediesel]Thanks for correcting me, Terry. As I said, my memory isn't that reliable (and I lived there 40 years ago!) But I'm right about the coal dust explosion hazard, ain't I???[/QUOTE

    Coal dust is a major hazard in coal mines, an old geordie explained to me that a decent coal dust explosion is akin to sitting in the barrel of a shotgun when the trigger gets pulled, there was one here in Qld while I was at Blackwater which blew an underground vehicle ( maybe 2 or 3 tons in weight ) one kilometer out of the mine entrance.

    Terry

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    I worked in the coal industry too, coal dust is explosive when its flying around as are many powders, i used to do a classroom experiment using custard powder, a tin can and a stub of candle, the kids got the can lids hitting the ceiling every time I also used to work for Cadburys making drinking chocolate which contains a lot of powdered sugar, the part of the building where the sugar was milled had all intrinsically safe electricals and a roof that was not fixed so that it could lift off in the event of an explosion.
    Stewart

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    Now if I could just work out a way to power an XM from the pressure waste from Hungry Jacks Onion Rings
    they really have to be the most explosive power source known to man....what the heck do they put in those things!!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    During WW11 and after of the few cars that remained on the road many ran on wood. Not really but they had gas producers which ran on charcoal.

    Most were home made and there did not seem to be many blow ups causing injury etc.
    Just to clarify in case someone misunderstands.
    The gas producer burns charcoal under conditions of insufficient air (a bit like a slow combustion heater) to produce carbon monoxide instead of carbon dioxide. The car engine then runs on the carbon monoxide.

    Warwick.

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