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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    Default New road law proposals

    Anyone else looked at these yet? They're a series of changes that are being recommended to the national Road Law by the National Transportation Commission, and they include such matters as prohibiting lane splitting by motor-cycles altogether; prohibiting any use of a mobile phone that involves holding it; and -- welcome by some here, I'm sure, but threatening to make us a potential laughing-stock to the Euros -- outlawing the use of front foggies when there's no fog.

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    At

    http://www.ntc.gov.au/NewsDetail.asp...50000002000164

    ... you'll get an overview of what the new proposals are, but the key fact is that although (as far as I'm aware) they've only been advertised in the press for the past couple of days, comments -- which can be lodged online -- will only be accepted until this Friday, Jan. 20th.

    To complicate matters, you're invited to send your comments to someone described in the newspaper ad that I saw as the project manager at ntc.COM.au, probably a mistake, but if it is, it's a mistake that's repeated in at least one other place that I saw in the draft document, which you can download from here:

    http://www.ntc.gov.au/DocView.aspx?p...12403400450020

    Some of it's a bit bent, and the proposal about lane-splitting, for example, has already excited a lot of comment from bikers -- mostly outraged -- but some of it -- for example, the proposal to get behind you 100% if someone running a red hits you while you're on a green arrow -- is a welcome correction to long-persisting stupidities. Good or bad, it's what you'll be expected to know implicitly if (as seems possible) it all gets up ...
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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! 307FELINE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bern
    Anyone else looked at these yet? They're a series of changes that are being recommended to the national Road Law by the National Transportation Commission, and they include such matters as prohibiting lane splitting by motor-cycles altogether; prohibiting any use of a mobile phone that involves holding it; and -- welcome by some here, I'm sure, but threatening to make us a potential laughing-stock to the Euros -- outlawing the use of front foggies when there's no fog.
    I thought that using foglights was already illegal. I have been pulled up 3 times in the past year for having them on, and each time got away with a verbal warning.
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    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 307FELINE
    I thought that using foglights was already illegal. I have been pulled up 3 times in the past year for having them on, and each time got away with a verbal warning.
    illegal in some states, not others...
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  4. #4
    Member semerton's Avatar
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    It's always nice of them to ban something that does nothing other than improve your vision of the road, hence increase safety...

    I'm sure there'll be an opportune fine to accompany it.

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bern
    they include such matters as prohibiting lane splitting by motor-cycles altogether; prohibiting any use of a mobile phone that involves holding it; outlawing the use of front foggies when there's no fog.
    I thought these three were illegal already, am I wrong?
    Cheers Simon
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by semerton
    It's always nice of them to ban something that does nothing other than improve your vision of the road, hence increase safety...

    I'm sure there'll be an opportune fine to accompany it.
    Explain how they increase safety and vision of the road in any useful way (short of being in extremelly heavy fog and < 20km/h ).

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 307FELINE
    I thought that using foglights was already illegal. I have been pulled up 3 times in the past year for having them on, and each time got away with a verbal warning.
    Had a warning years ago when pulled over by an RBT. I use them when driving country roads that have no marker posts, and the chance of wildlife is far greater than suburbia.

    Personally I don't have a problem with foggies as they are only 55w and project a very low widely spread beam. However any light that is poorly aligned really sh*ts me, but when was the last time you heard someone pulled over for that.
    Cheers Simon
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by casnell
    illegal in some states, not others...
    Which states are they legal?
    Cheers Simon
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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Explain how they increase safety and vision of the road in any useful way (short of being in extremelly heavy fog and < 20km/h ).
    By producing a beam that lights up the side of the road greater than low beam. Low beam protects a beam far greater down the road than foglights do. So properly adjusted foggies can in no way blind you as their reach is far less than low beam. Note I said properly adjusted, but that goes for low and high beam as well.
    Cheers Simon
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    I personally have never seen the need on normal roads for front fog lights... sure on gravel and in fog they are useful, but other than that they are a fashion accessory for all the Jazz owners...

    The police should be cracking down on poorly aligned too bright white headlights... Being blinded while driving is a health hazard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by semerton
    It's always nice of them to ban something that does nothing other than improve your vision of the road, hence increase safety...

    I'm sure there'll be an opportune fine to accompany it.
    That's why I like to drive with my high beam on all the time.
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 206 RC
    IThe police should be cracking down on poorly aligned too bright white headlights... Being blinded while driving is a health hazard.
    Agree, but unless police are carrying alignment equipment it becomes subjective. At least they could slap the car with a defect notice. Besides cops would rather park their car and take photos than actually get out of it and do any real policing.
    Cheers Simon
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamsclio
    That's why I like to drive with my high beam on all the time.
    My second car had 770w of lights fitted and boy did they light up the road.
    Cheers Simon
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  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    By producing a beam that lights up the side of the road greater than low beam. Low beam protects a beam far greater down the road than foglights do. So properly adjusted foggies can in no way blind you as their reach is far less than low beam. Note I said properly adjusted, but that goes for low and high beam as well.
    OK, so you use them on country roads to light up the roads edge. By design fog lights only illuminate about 3metres infront of the car. At 100km/h how much warning will you have once the light 3metres infront of the car illuminates wildlife .... How many seconds will you have to react before those 3metres are past ....

    Anyone that actually looks at the area infront of the car illuminated by foglights is a bloody menace and a danger and shouldn't be on the road (unless they are doing < 20km/h in heavy fog).

    Fog lights do not help so other people "can see you" either... That's what low beam is for, fog lights are just extremelly agitating and serve no usefull purpose than seriously p!$$ing off motorists.

    I have a set on my car, even in a cold place like ballarat I can only recall needing to use the once in the last 5years. I would have been far safer to pull off the road before someone ran up my arse by doing 80-100km/h where it was only safe to crawl along at walking speed with foglights on (even low beam would reflect back into your eyes).

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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Someone once explained to me that by using foglights to light up the section of road in right front of you, the increased contrast will affect your long distance vision.

    The only instance where I find foglights useful is in actual fog (I know, it's hard to believe) and when parking in dark conditions. They are also useful for working out which motorists have a clue, and those that don't.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    OK, so you use them on country roads to light up the roads edge. By design fog lights only illuminate about 3metres infront of the car. At 100km/h how much warning will you have once the light 3metres infront of the car illuminates wildlife .... How many seconds will you have to react before those 3metres are past ....

    Anyone that actually looks at the area infront of the car illuminated by foglights is a bloody menace and a danger and shouldn't be on the road (unless they are doing < 20km/h in heavy fog).

    Fog lights do not help so other people "can see you" either... That's what low beam is for, fog lights are just extremelly agitating and serve no usefull purpose than seriously p!$$ing off motorists.

    I have a set on my car, even in a cold place like ballarat I can only recall needing to use the once in the last 5years. I would have been far safer to pull off the road before someone ran up my arse by doing 80-100km/h where it was only safe to crawl along at walking speed with foglights on (even low beam would reflect back into your eyes).

    seeya
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    Fellow Frogger! Trixie's Avatar
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    At least the French cars we've had have REAR foglights; these are (very occasionally) a godsend. Stupid Subaru has the redundant fronts but NO rear foggy
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    I tend to find coloured or misaligned lights far more annoying than low driving lights.

    I also find that using them increases my vision of the road in front of me (pretty straightforward), as well as increasing other driver's awareness of my car.

    To say that they should not be used (to the point of banning them) seems rediculous - on the same level as banning headlights in the daytime.

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    Canberra has a real problem with Kangaroos and I have to say, the foglights have helped me see them on the side of the road earlier than I would have if they were off. It's not just at 100km/h that roos are a problem, can be 60km/h or 80km/h streets/roads as well.

    Heaps of canberrans use their foglights, I assume for the same reason. It isn't necessarily for the "look at me" factor. In Melbourne and Sydney, I could understand them being pretty pointless, but in Canberra, they've saved my ass on numerous occasions. Also, the majority of the main roads are divided here so fog lights "dazzling" on coming traffic isn't as big an issue is it may be in other cities.
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    If you are driving at normal road speeds, especially +60km/h, the light provided by foglights is pointless. By the time you see anything illuminated by them it is too late to do anything about it.

    When driving at night you should be scanning where the main or hi beams are illuminating as that is where you will be in seconds to come. When you are driving in daylight conditions you should be scanning at or perhaps even further ahead than the same reference point.

    Funny, you don't see people driving around European roads at night with tosser lights on.
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    Member adamsclio's Avatar
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    It is especially bad when people use foglights in the rain, where it bounces up off the road and into the eyes of oncoming drivers. Also I see more and more people using just their foglights at night

    Foglights are for fog and pointless anywhere else. I have no sympathy for people who use them improperly getting booked.
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    What a great way to suck extra dollars out of the, I gotta have it now now crowd.

    Annoying tossers brigade.

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  23. #23
    1075.6 SamR's Avatar
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    I also loathe the improper use of fog lights
    Are the lights on SS commodes driving lights or fog lights? They always seem to shine into my eyes. And the morons who drive around in their Excels, oblivious to the fact that the blinding rear fog light is on also annoy me.
    I've started turning on my rear fog light if someone is driving behind me with fog lights on. Maybe they'll get the hint

    Fog lights work wonders in fog/low cloud. I thought the idea behind them was to shine under the fog rather than reflecting off it, as they are mounted lower than the headlights and the fog is usually slightly elevated from the road. Or am I wrong
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  24. #24
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ACT180
    Canberra has a real problem with Kangaroos and I have to say, the foglights have helped me see them on the side of the road earlier than I would have if they were off. It's not just at 100km/h that roos are a problem, can be 60km/h or 80km/h streets/roads as well.
    That's the reason I use them. They may only project a couple of meters in front of the car but they project quite a few metres to the side.
    Cheers Simon
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    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    There's a great article/opinion piece in the back of this month's issue of Motor magazine re. lane splitting by motorcyclists at traffic lights when all the traffic is stationary, and why there's nothing wrong with it. I have to agree. I think most people who have a problem with the correct procedure of lane-splitting only take issue because they don't like it that someone can "go to the head of the queue".
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