206 GTI trouble
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Thread: 206 GTI trouble

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default 206 GTI trouble

    My 206 GTI is giving me trouble can anyone help, my family has owned Peugeuts for years and had no troubles but my 206 is trouble,indicators work by themselves rear demister comes on by it's self and then the constant engine problems, every time it rains the engine warning light comes on and and the car stalls.
    This happens when the engine gets to operating temp then it loses power, the engine misses then when i stop the car it cuts out, any help would save my sanity as I have taken it to 2 dealers and they don't seem to know what is going on and just reset the computer, my car was made in 2001 and has 120000 kms on the clock.

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    1000+ Posts Uga Boga's Avatar
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    It's called character.

    All French cars are the same, including my C4, they have a mind of their own.
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  3. #3
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    Chris, I'd be demanding more of your dealers. Is your Pug still under warranty? Is the problem consistent? Have you been able to replicate it for your dealer? If they know there is an issue, but keep giving you the car back, that is a problem. You could try contacting the importer Ateco (?), since the dealer sounds clueless at this stage.

    You could try posting this in the Peugeot forum as well, since it gets the most activity. Other owners may have had similar experiences?

    Ignore the people on this forum who will tell you if you serviced the car yourself, it would not have any problems now.

  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Ignore the people on this forum who will tell you if you serviced the car yourself, it would not have any problems now.
    With a totally unsolicited inflammatory response like that, could I respectfully suggest that you keep your hand off it Serge; if you can't post something more positive than that, go play with your Toy*** instead.

    Truth of the matter is that cars serviced by dealers are usually spot on until something out of the ordinary crops up. Dealer service centres (almost all brands) by and large usually have a variety of often inexperienced and/or robotic mechanics all of whom will go to great lengths to tell you how they have gone through the manufacturers "service school" and often have accreditations on the wall to prove it.
    This is great when it comes to general maintenance and common problems that all manufacturers experience, as a result, if (and I'll qute an actual experience from many years ago) Toyotas would come in with slow synchros; recommended practice was to remove gearbox, strip down and replace all synchro rings with Australian made replacements. We had a foreman who was above the average who used to hand lap the old synchros in because this way we never had a failure but doing it the "factory way" sometimes meant the job needed to be redone as even the replacement synchro rings weren't always 100% as he had discovered when we did it their way. In reality, they usually end up barely more than production line workers which they do quite well (ie) upgrade sofware, conduct work due to recalls as per spec sheet supplied and generally follow the factory service manual.
    Comes a sticky problem like this and if it hasn't been logged as a fault and a service update issued, they'll spin out at the thought of it, will spend ages ploughing through the service bulletins looking for it, generally wriggle wires and bum scratch and be totally lost.
    I'd suggest you try to find a good auto electrician, preferrably one with French car experience. The best way to find this could be to start off by seeing someone like Colliers who are long time French car repairers and who seem capable of doing a proper troubleshoot. Another option could be Paul Vassalo but I understand he's off on holidays and has a long waiting list so Collier may be your best option. I understand he's at Granville and I don't know how far away from you he is, but under the circumstances I think that's immaterial if he can get to the source of the trouble or put you in contact with someone who might be capable of doing so.
    With all due respects to the dealers, it also has to be remembered that very few owners continue getting their service done by the selling dealer once the car gets out of warranty due to the exhorbitant charges and as a result the mechanics rarely come in contact with some of the weirder problems and also explains why service people at new car dealerships wear spotless white overall quite often.

    To me, it sounds as though you may have a moisture problem such as water contamination of a couple of relays and/or possibly corrosion on an earth even none of which the dealer will ever pick up on his electronic trouble shooter. My guess is that you'll find possibly David or Paul will come out to the car, grin, say "Oh another one of these hey?" swap a relay or two and put a dob of sealant on the thread of a screw; I feel it's that kind of simple but annoying complaint.


    Alan S
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    That sounds like fantastic advice to me Alan, the only reason I suggested returning to the dealers was if the car was still under warranty, Chris would be entitled to expect that the car could be sorted without charge by the dealer.

    I have no idea how auto-electricians handle multiplexing and what. Does that matter much, Alan? Or is it pretty much the same?

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    By now, I'd imagine any auto electrician who was worth his salt and working on French cars in particular would or should have multi plexing under control; after all, it came out on the XMs from memory so they've had plenty of time to sort it's intricasies by now.
    I've found over the years that when you have a problem with a newish car regardless of make, if the selling dealer can't or is incapable of sorting it, it's a rare case when a non seller will go above and beyond the call of duty for the owner and do it as a warranty claim as anything above the "scheduled fee" has to either be coughed up for by the owner or absorbed by the dealer; the selling dealer has his margin to play with, the second dealer hasn't so is reluctant to spend too much time on it and as many service managers are on an incentive bonus for workshop profits, they try to keep within the boundaries of the warranty claims. As a result, I feel that whilst it may not be a real big chance of succeeding, it is often a better proposition to let the dealer exhaust his options as regards sorting the problem, then if this hasn't yielded results, approach someone like Paul V or David C and ask for some idea of possible cost. Take the information to the selling dealer and as his service department hasn't been able to sort the problem, ask if he'd be prepared to contribute towards an outside source doing the repairs.
    This usually leads to one of three solutions:

    ! - He'll keep the car there until it's sorted properly; no charge.

    2 - He'll be so glad to see the end of the problems and associated bad publicity that he'll agree so he can wipe his hands of it.

    3 - He'll carry on with all kinds of crap and you'll have to tell him that neither you nor your family will ever buy a car off him again; he may then reconsider; he may not, in which case get one of the ones suggested do the job, fix it and send a complaint to Peugeot Australia along with a copy of the invoice and receipt and demand reimbursement. Even if it's not forthcoming, you will have a car that you can enjoy.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Icon8 206 GTI trouble continued

    Thanks for the advice guys, as I was rushed for time I could not put all information in maybe with this extra info it might make things a easier to figure out.
    The second day I owned the car the engine warning light came on, I consulted my manual and then contacted the dealer (Mildren) the car was then taken to the service centre where it was there for four hours, I was told that they had changed the coil pack and plugs problem solved I thought.
    Next I had problems with the indicaters which would constantly come on by themselves, the rear wiper would work when it felt like it and the rear demister would come on when I was running the heater,I would watch this come on and off by itself.
    The car was then taken back to the dealer, where I was told that my fuel was contaminated, I didn't believe this and took the car to my friend who has his own work shop and the fuel was pumped out, he told me that there was nothing wrong with it and the filter was a little bit dirty so it was changed and the injecters cleaned even though they didn't need it.
    This was done by his as the service centre said it was wear and tear not covered under warrenty and wanted $750.
    All of this did not stop the problem and it seemed to me that the dealer was trying to rip me off, I then took it to another Peugeut dealer who a friend of mine knew, I was told that they checked the pins to the computer and reset the computer only to have the car stall 20 mins down the road, the only thing that helps is if the car is left outside in the sun or if the engine bays is sprayed with an air gun, are the problems with the engine and indicator and engine separate as I have seen in the forum people with indicator problems and they say it is the mini computer that is faulty and it is a known problem and should be replaced free of charge ?
    Why do I get this engine problem when the water temp gauge gets to operating temp? This is driving me crazy and I don't trust the dealer I bought the car from, PLEASE HELP ME

  8. #8
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Time to start talking to the Office of Fair Trading.
    I doubt you've got anything to lose. This old chestnut with the fuel injectors & supposedly contaminated petrol has been pulled before by a well known Citroen dealer in Sydney on a member of this forum. It's got whiskers on it.
    I doubt that you're going to lose any friends by getting the matter investigated by OFT and my advice on getting the matter resolved by an independent repairer and then taking it back to the dealer still holds.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Default 206 GTI again

    Just to add some extra info the car stalls when I stop at lights or loses power as I am driving and I have to restart the car, this is happening the day after I drive in the rain but does not happen when I wash the car, after going through the forum I have heard many others with similar problems and solutions of modifying the stepper motor replacing the engine speed sensor or faulty oxygen sensors as well as Com2000 problems my car was built 6/2001 can anyone give me some more info on these faults and possible prices and someone who can fix it who will not rip me off or anybody who can help me get replacement items from Peugeot as these are known problems.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris j
    Just to add some extra info the car stalls when I stop at lights or loses power as I am driving and I have to restart the car, this is happening the day after I drive in the rain but does not happen when I wash the car, after going through the forum I have heard many others with similar problems and solutions of modifying the stepper motor replacing the engine speed sensor or faulty oxygen sensors as well as Com2000 problems my car was built 6/2001 can anyone give me some more info on these faults and possible prices and someone who can fix it who will not rip me off or anybody who can help me get replacement items from Peugeot as these are known problems.
    If your 206 was built 6/2001 then it WONT have a COMM 2000 unit & it isn't fully multiplexed.

    The multiplex & COMM 2000 change over didn't happen until October 2001.

    Make sure you have the latest Electrofill coil pack & NOT the awful Sagem version & make sure it has Peugeot branded spark plugs in, Theres also a modification to the coil pack wiring the Peugeot dealer should have done.

    Make sure the stepper motor plunger is clean & make sure the air bypass hole the plunger goes into is also spotlessly clean.

    Check the engine ECU connections for silicone contamination, This is a well known ( By Peugeot dealers in the U.K. ) source of the 206 cut out problem.

    Check the main earth lead from the battery is clean & tight where it connects to the top of the gearbox.

    Also ask the Peugeot dealer if your car has the latest ECU download from Peugeot France.
    2003 Pug 206 GLX TU3JP

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    If I park my 2003 206cc 2L on the grass overnight, the next morning when I start it, it misses and carries on for about a minute, then comes good. I told the dealer about it several times, and they "checked it out", but couldnt find anything wrong.
    Solution, I dont park it on the grass overnight.
    It must be moisture from the grass rising up into something electrical, causing the miss.
    Terry


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  12. #12
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    Default 206 GTI more questions

    Thanks for all the help so far but all the advice has lead to more question so I could use a bit more help.
    From Lee powers notes I checked my coil pack and it is a sagem item, is this bad? could anyone tell me what kind of issues these coil packs have,if I change this item for the electrofill item is any modification required ie wiring and software.
    Are the sagem coils a sealed item or do they have problems with water.
    Is the stepper motor the same as an idle control and is it located on the right side of the throttle body, do they play up if they get dirty.
    As for plugs I use NGK items now but the engine faults were there when I used the factory items.
    The ECU connections are fine but I have been unable to check the earth connection.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris j
    Thanks for all the help so far but all the advice has lead to more question so I could use a bit more help.
    From Lee powers notes I checked my coil pack and it is a sagem item, is this bad? could anyone tell me what kind of issues these coil packs have,if I change this item for the electrofill item is any modification required ie wiring and software.
    Are the sagem coils a sealed item or do they have problems with water.
    Is the stepper motor the same as an idle control and is it located on the right side of the throttle body, do they play up if they get dirty.
    As for plugs I use NGK items now but the engine faults were there when I used the factory items.
    The ECU connections are fine but I have been unable to check the earth connection.
    Well, Peugeot dropping Sagem as a parts supplier because of the amount of warranty claims owners made for faulty coil packs must be bad!

    The Sagem coil packs break down internally & cause misfires that can if left for a while ruin the engine ECU.

    NGK spark plugs are also a big NO NO with these newer Peugeot / Citroen engines too!

    Get an Electrofill coil pack & a set of Peugeots own Equiem spark plugs fitted. There is a small wiring modification for the coil pack wiring, I dont know what it is but a Peugeot dealer SHOULD have had the technical service bulletin about this, Its been around at least a couple of years.

    The stepper motor / idle control valve will only work correctly when its clean & the air bypass hole the stepper motor / idle control valve plunger sits in is also spotlessly clean.

    On the ECU connectors at the factory Peugeot sprayed them with a silicone spray to stop corrosion, This actually caused its own new problem with intermittent connections between the plugs & the pins on the ECU.

    I would have a very good look at the main earth connection from the battery where it attaches on top of the gearbox & then on to the body shell.

    One easy way to tell if a 206 is multiplexed is look at the radio remote stalk to the right of the steering wheel.

    Long round stalk = Normal

    Short square stubby stalk = Multiplexed

    Have you checked the 2 vents on the bonnet? Rain can get through these & then run towards the engine ECU & cause all sorts of problems with the electrics, There is ment to be a blanking plate fitted to the under side of the vents to stop this.

    It really sounds like you need to find a Peugeot dealer who KNOWS what they are doing, The 2 dealers you have tried so far sound like they havent got a clue with well known basic problems with a 206

    Also pop over to this U.K. forum & post on there, We have a couple of Peugeot technicians on here & a lot of clued up diagnostic technician too

    http://www.kelsey-forums.co.uk/cgi-bin/cmm/YaBB.pl
    Last edited by LeePower; 28th December 2005 at 01:15 AM.
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    Default 206 GTI problems continued

    Thanks Lee this sheds more light on my troubles, also from what you have said that for some time sagem has been out of the picture and when the dealer said they have replaced the coil pack ( november 2004 ) this must be a lie as why would you use another sagem.
    All I need now is a good price on an electrofill coil pack and all mods that go with it.
    The stepper motor is now spotless as it was covered in carbon and is waiting for a test drive to see who it go's .
    I think if the water was comming through the vents I would have problems after the car is washed, currenty we have water restrictions and I have to wash my car at a carwash where I use a high pressure hose.
    I will check the connections again as well the earth on the gearbox etc.
    Would the software update be in place if the coil was not changed ?

  15. #15
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    The amount of software updates Peugeot releases for ECUs & BSI units is staggering, Nearly every time my 206 goes in for warranty work it come out with a new software download.

    The only way I know of to tell if theres newer software available is take the car to a Peugeot dealer so they can plug it on to the computer & click on update & see if Peugeot France has anything new for your car.

    A visit to the U.K. Car Mechanics forum I posted earlier would also be a good idea, You can speak to Peugeot technicans there.
    2003 Pug 206 GLX TU3JP

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    Default 206 GTI troubles

    Think I need to go to another dealer then but only after I talk to Peugeot Aust first and see what thet can do, if that fails consumer affairs, as the guys I bought the car from seem to lie about what they have done to the car.
    I hope that will fix my engine problems,i have inspected my indicator stalk and gave it a clean and no issues so far but as it has been hot I have not had to use the heater so I don't know if the rear demister still likes to say hello.

  17. #17
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    I have had indicator issues with my 2001 206gti - started after a huge downpour when the car was left out for a couple of days ... problem slowly went away after days, but my dealer replaced the unit under warranty and have had no problems since. Sorry to hear you've had so many problems with your car. Hope they get sorted out soon.
    Then - 2001 206 Gti
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeePower
    Well, Peugeot dropping Sagem as a parts supplier because of the amount of warranty claims owners made for faulty coil packs must be bad!
    Quote Originally Posted by Chris j
    Thanks Lee this sheds more light on my troubles, also from what you have said that for some time sagem has been out of the picture and when the dealer said they have replaced the coil pack ( november 2004 ) this must be a lie as why would you use another sagem.
    When did Peugeot stop using Sagem as a parts supplier for the coil packs? My 2004 build 206 has a sagem coil pack in it.

    Troy.

  19. #19
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    Sagem coilpack = MISFIRES, Potential damage to engine ECU through electrical spikes, A moaning owner & another warranty claim for PSA Peugeot / Citroen.

    When you come across a PSA TU engine thats wont run correctly or has stuck the diagnostic light on you can be 99% certain theres a faulty Sagem coil pack under the bonnet thats causing the trouble.

    The Electrofill brand of coil pack that replaced the Sagem one is a whole lot better.
    2003 Pug 206 GLX TU3JP

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeePower
    Sagem coilpack = MISFIRES, Potential damage to engine ECU through electrical spikes, A moaning owner & another warranty claim for PSA Peugeot / Citroen.

    When you come across a PSA TU engine thats wont run correctly or has stuck the diagnostic light on you can be 99% certain theres a faulty Sagem coil pack under the bonnet thats causing the trouble.

    The Electrofill brand of coil pack that replaced the Sagem one is a whole lot better.
    This sound like the problem?

    http://www.carclinicmagazine.com/peu...sagem__sl.html

    The GTi has a EW series engine, not TU. I was just curious as to whether this was a problem across all the engines in the 206 range or not.

    Troy.


    Troy.

  21. #21
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    TU or EW engine, If its got a Sagem coil pack fitted on it then

    It affects most of the later 106 / 306 cars too.
    2003 Pug 206 GLX TU3JP

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by doggiedog
    If I park my 2003 206cc 2L on the grass overnight, the next morning when I start it, it misses and carries on for about a minute, then comes good. I told the dealer about it several times, and they "checked it out", but couldnt find anything wrong.
    Solution, I dont park it on the grass overnight.
    It must be moisture from the grass rising up into something electrical, causing the miss.
    there's a usual procedure for 206s to start, is to turn the key and wait for the diags to complete, which the fuel pump would've finished its job, then all it needs is good turn to start the engine. if you just put the key in and start, chances are the fuel pump is not ready and you're trying to start the car before fuel can be injected for ignition.

    if you follow this it might probably cure your problem.
    Jason

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  23. #23
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    Default GTI problems

    There is no problems when I start the car, every time it starts without trouble, the problem starts the day after I have driven the the car in the rain, when it gets to operating temp then it may lose power and i have to pull over and restart the car or at a set of lights the car will just cut out.
    Yesterday I did not drive the car as i was avoiding the 42 degree heat but on my drive to work the rear demister keep going on and off any thoughts.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris j
    There is no problems when I start the car, every time it starts without trouble, the problem starts the day after I have driven the the car in the rain, when it gets to operating temp then it may lose power and i have to pull over and restart the car or at a set of lights the car will just cut out.
    Yesterday I did not drive the car as i was avoiding the 42 degree heat but on my drive to work the rear demister keep going on and off any thoughts.
    Chris maybe its time to bite the bullet and fit the newer coil pack and if warranty is not honoured, you should be able to take possession of the removed coil pack for testing and legal purposes should this replacement eliminate your problem.

    My guess is that once you have the sagem pack in your possession preliminary legal action would produce startling results given the amount of information available on those "faulty" coil packs.

    My , but of course it is your money!!

  25. #25
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    If Peugeot wont do the coilpack under warranty & charge you for the repair then they CANNOT keep the part & you can legally ask for its return to you, Ask whose paying for the repair first so you can ask for the safe return of the faulty coilpack if its you picking up the bill.

    If Peugeot do the coilpack under the warranty then the part belongs to them but that wouldn't matter to you then anyway.

    The rear demister is an odd fault, Ive only heard of that once before on a NON plexed car.

    I would defiantly pop over to that U.K. forum I mentioned a few posts ago, You cant beat asking a couple of Peugeot technicians for help, They will be able to point you in the correct direction
    Last edited by LeePower; 3rd January 2006 at 02:34 AM.
    2003 Pug 206 GLX TU3JP

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