Now the Vic's are into it as well!!
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! cam740's Avatar
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    Default Now the Vic's are into it as well!!

    It was announced on teh radio news this mornignthat there is looking very likely a bill being passed by Bracksy'd Boys that will allow the Police to confiscate/intern and even SELL your car to try and "rid the roads of hoons"

    so now all it needs is a copper with an attitude problem who pulls you over and claims that you were doing burnouts or what ever and they can take your car off you......

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    i know that it is more likely aimed at the import and V8 crowds but dont get caught lighting em up from the lights, specially any P platers out there!! (least i'm over 30 so less likely to have a problem!)

    welocme to the police state!!

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    al
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    Mate, that is a load of crap. At present the punishments don't deter people from using their cars irresponsibly, and this legislation has been sucessful elsewhere.

    I think this is probably one punishment that will make young kids think twice before trying to crack 250 on the ringroad...
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    I live in an area where burnouts and high speed passes (est. 150km regularly) have recently become the norm only 50m from my house at 2am almost every night. And we're not talking lower socio-economic zone here.

    Take their cars. Please.

    Stuey


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    Fellow Frogger! cam740's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by al
    Mate, that is a load of crap. At present the punishments don't deter people from using their cars irresponsibly, and this legislation has been sucessful elsewhere.

    I think this is probably one punishment that will make young kids think twice before trying to crack 250 on the ringroad...

    Al i fully agree that taking cars off ppl that are doing that kinda thing - even if only a month or so - but i have heard tales (urban myths maybe???) from NSW where this has been going for a while of cars getting impounded for lighting em up as they round corners etc.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cam740
    but i have heard tales (urban myths maybe???) from NSW where this has been going for a while of cars getting impounded for lighting em up as they round corners etc.....
    And your point is?

    I personally think it is far more dangerous to power slide through a corner than it is to light them up off the line.

    One has the potential to make some smoke and noise at low speed, the other has the potential to leave a car wrapped around a telegraph pole...

    Can someone from NSW (or other states) confirm if the confiscation is 'on the spot' or court imposed?

    I suppose if it was court imposed people would just sell the car prior to the court date...

    This is the first I've heard of confiscation laws being introduced in Victoria. There have been whispers here and there over the years but nothing confirmed...
    Last edited by mistareno; 26th October 2005 at 02:51 PM.

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam740
    It was announced on teh radio news this mornignthat there is looking very likely a bill being passed by Bracksy'd Boys that will allow the Police to confiscate/intern and even SELL your car to try and "rid the roads of hoons"
    Queensland has hoon laws that amount to the same thing but I think there has to be very strong physical evidence ie video footage.
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    Fellow Frogger! cam740's Avatar
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    Anyone in Qland or NSW have any idea's on what the precedent has been on this - as in what levels of "hoon-ness" are needed before the police can impound your car????

    I found it interesting that the RACV came out against the proposed law..

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    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam740
    Anyone in Qland or NSW have any idea's on what the precedent has been on this - as in what levels of "hoon-ness" are needed before the police can impound your car????

    I found it interesting that the RACV came out against the proposed law..
    I saw this happen one day outside work in suburban Queanbeyan.

    Unfortunate toe rag in riced Gemini rounds corner at moderate and legal speed, guns it and does a fish tale only to find himself facing a bull wagon with flashing red and blues.

    The two officers stopped him and proceeded to get back up in the form of another car load of wallopers and a tilt tray. Firstly they went over that piece of rice from end to end and defected what they could, then they got him for the fish tale exhibition and then they loaded the rice bubble on to the tilt tray and drove off. I felt sorry for the poor b. He was left literally sitting crying in the gutter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    ...he was left literally sitting crying in the gutter.
    Did you give him a tissue?

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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam740
    Anyone in Qland or NSW have any idea's on what the precedent has been on this - as in what levels of "hoon-ness" are needed before the police can impound your car????
    Drag racing and really high speed.
    Cheers Simon
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    In SA for burnouts, excessive noise from car or stereo, drag racing that's it I think, but it's up and running.

    Mistareno must take you to task about your Tolstoy (sic) quote/s. petoi !!

    ed ge

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    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    I saw this happen one day outside work in suburban Queanbeyan.

    Unfortunate toe rag in riced Gemini rounds corner at moderate and legal speed, guns it and does a fish tale only to find himself facing a bull wagon with flashing red and blues.

    The two officers stopped him and proceeded to get back up in the form of another car load of wallopers and a tilt tray. Firstly they went over that piece of rice from end to end and defected what they could, then they got him for the fish tale exhibition and then they loaded the rice bubble on to the tilt tray and drove off. I felt sorry for the poor b. He was left literally sitting crying in the gutter.

    Same thing happened to a friend of mine with a V8 commodore. Admittedly, way too powerful for public roads. He said he was driving in the wet and he had no traction at all taking off from lights and struggled not to spin his wheels. Cops confiscated his car there and then, he just got it back after three months. It's what you get when you have a black commodore with massive chrome rims lowered and heavily worked motor and exhaust. Don't really have any sympathy for him but thought it was a bit much for them to get him in the wet.

    It was in Canberra but probably same rules as NSW.
    Last edited by ACT180; 26th October 2005 at 03:45 PM. Reason: where?
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    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Did you give him a tissue?
    I did intitially admire the work of the force, particularly when they spent the half hour defecting the car. However I do believe that they showed less compassion and kindness than their Victorian counterparts may have done in similar circumstances .

    It was a great piece of street theatre but they did gut the poor B something bad and I can't help but suspect that the public garroting had more to do with sending a message to the local neighbourhood than with the seriousness of the offence.

    Last edited by BogMaster; 26th October 2005 at 05:09 PM.
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    [QUOTE=mistareno]
    Can someone from NSW (or other states) confirm if the confiscation is 'on the spot' or court imposed?..............

    here goes the long answer .....the traffic act NSW.........
    Road Transport (General) Act 1999 No 18
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Division 8 Detention, impounding and forfeiture of vehicles

    39***Removal and impounding of vehicles used for certain offences


    (cf Traffic Act, s 4BB)

    (1)* A police officer who reasonably believes that a motor vehicle:

    (a)**is being or has (on that day or during the past 10 days) been operated on a road or road related area so as to commit an offence under section 40 or 41 of the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999, or

    (b)**is the subject of a period of impounding, or the subject of forfeiture, under section 40,
    * * * may seize and take charge of the motor vehicle and cause it to be removed to a place determined by the Commissioner of Police.

    (2)* A motor vehicle may be seized under subsection (1) from:

    (a)**a public place, or

    (b)**any other place, with the consent of the owner or occupier of the place or under the authority of a search warrant issued under section 41.

    (3)* For the purpose of exercising the powers conferred by subsection (1), a police officer may cause any locking device or other feature of the motor vehicle concerned that is impeding the exercise of those powers to be removed, dismantled or neutralised and may, if the driver or any other person will not surrender the keys to the vehicle, start the vehicle by other means.

    (4)* Any motor vehicle removed to a place in accordance with subsection (1) may, subject to the regulations, be impounded at that place or may be moved to and impounded at any other place determined by the Commissioner of Police.

    (5)* A motor vehicle that may be removed under subsection (1) or (4):

    (a)**may be moved by its being driven, whether or not under power, or by its being towed or pushed, or in any other manner whatever, and

    (b)**may be moved by one or more police officers or, at the direction of a police officer, by persons engaged by the Commissioner of Police, and may be impounded at premises under the control of the Commissioner or of another authority or person.

    (6)* Schedule 1 has effect with respect to a motor vehicle impounded under this section.

    (7)* The regulations may make provision for or with respect to requiring the responsible person for or driver of a motor vehicle to pay a fee in relation to the towing of the vehicle under this section. The whole or any part of the fee that is unpaid may be recovered from the responsible person or driver of the motor vehicle by the Commissioner of Police as a debt due to the Crown in any court of competent jurisdiction. A certificate in writing given by a police officer as to the fact and cost of towing is evidence of those matters.

    (8)* In this section:

    public place includes any place that members of the public are entitled to use.



    40***Impounding or forfeiture of vehicles on finding of guilt or admission of offence

    (cf Traffic Act, s 4BC)

    (1)* A motor vehicle used in connection with an offence under section 40 or 41 of the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999, being in either case the first offence by the offender under the provision concerned, that any court finds that a person is guilty of is by the finding liable to be impounded for a period of 3 months, unless the court by order otherwise directs under subsection (3).

    (2)* A motor vehicle used in connection with an offence under section 40 or 41 of the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999, being in either case a second or subsequent offence by the offender under the provision concerned, that any court finds that a person is guilty of is by the finding liable to be forfeited to the Crown, unless the court by order otherwise directs under subsection (3).

    (3)* The court that found a person to be guilty of an offence under section 40 or 41 of the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999 may, for reasons of the avoidance of any undue hardship to any person or other injustice perceived by the court, by its order direct that a period of impounding imposed by this section be reduced or dispensed with, or that a forfeiture imposed by this section be commuted to a period of impounding.

    (4)* The period for which a vehicle was impounded under section 39 is to be reckoned as counting towards a period of impounding imposed by or under this section.

    (5)* Any impounding or forfeiture under this section is in addition to any other penalty that may be imposed for the offence concerned, but for the purposes of any rights of appeal against a penalty so imposed by the court finding the offence to be proven, the impounding or forfeiture is taken to be, or to be part of, that penalty.

    (6)* For the purposes of this section, payment of the amount specified:

    (a)**in a penalty notice issued in respect of an offence under section 41 of the Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999, or

    (b)**in any process issued subsequent to such a penalty notice,
    * * * as the amount that is payable in order to dispose of the alleged offence without having it dealt with by a court, has the same effect as a finding by a court that the person was guilty of the offence.

    (7)* Schedule 1 has effect with respect to a motor vehicle impounded or forfeited under this section.





    And, the all important section 40 and 41....






    **** *
    * *
    *
    *
    *Part 3**>>**Division 1**>>**Section 40

    Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999 No 20
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    40***Races, attempts on speed records and other speed trials


    (cf Traffic Act, s 4B)

    (1)* A person must not organise, promote or take part in:

    (a)**any race between vehicles on a road or road related area, or

    (b)**any attempt to break any vehicle speed record on a road or road related area, or

    (c)**any trial of the speed of a vehicle on a road or road related area, or

    (d)**any competitive trial designed to test the skill of any vehicle driver or the reliability or mechanical condition of any vehicle on a road or road related area,
    * * * unless the written approval of the Commissioner of Police to the holding or making of the race, attempt or trial has been obtained.

    Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.


    (2)* The Commissioner of Police may:

    (a)**grant or refuse approval to the holding or making of a race, attempt or trial referred to in subsection (1), and

    (b)**impose any condition (whether of general or limited application) on the approval that the Commissioner considers necessary in the interests of public safety and convenience.

    Note.*Section 48 (1) of the Road Transport (General) Act 1999 provides that a person aggrieved by a decision of the Commissioner of Police under this subsection may apply to the Administrative Decisions Tribunal for a review of the decision.

    (3)* A person taking part in (or the organiser or promoter) of any race, attempt or trial referred to in subsection (1) must comply with any condition imposed on an approval granted under subsection (2) in respect of the race, attempt or trial.


    Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.


    (4)* If a person is convicted by a court of an offence under this section in relation to a motor vehicle or trailer:

    (a)**except as provided by paragraph (b)—the person is disqualified from holding a driver licence by the conviction and without any specific order of a court for 12 months, or

    (b)**if the court at the time of the conviction thinks fit to order a shorter or a longer period of disqualification—the person is disqualified from holding a driver licence for the period specified in the order.

    Note.*Section 26 of the Road Transport (General) Act 1999 provides for the effect of a disqualification (whether or not by order of a court).

    (5)* Any disqualification under this section is in addition to any penalty imposed for the offence.

    (6)* This section does not apply to any test of the slow running of a vehicle.

    **** *
    * *
    *
    *
    *Part 3**>>**Division 1**>>**Section 41

    Road Transport (Safety and Traffic Management) Act 1999 No 20
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    41***Conduct associated with road and drag racing and other activities


    (cf Traffic Act, s 4BA)

    (1)* A person must not, on a road or road related area, operate a motor vehicle in such a manner as to cause the vehicle to undergo sustained loss of traction by one or more of the driving wheels (or, in the case of a motor cycle, the driving wheel) of the vehicle.


    Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.


    (2)* A person must not operate a motor vehicle contrary to subsection (1) knowing that any petrol, oil, diesel fuel or other inflammable liquid has been placed on the surface of the road or road related area beneath one or more tyres of the vehicle.


    Maximum penalty: 7 penalty units.


    (3)* In any proceedings for an offence under subsection (1) or (2), it is a defence if the person charged satisfies the court that the vehicle, although operated as referred to in subsection (1), was not so operated deliberately.

    (4)* A person must not, on a road or road related area, engage in conduct prescribed by regulations made for the purposes of this section, being conduct associated with the operation of a motor vehicle for speed competitions or other activities specified or described in the regulations.


    Maximum penalty: 5 penalty units.


    (5)* Nothing in this section applies to the operation of a motor vehicle for the purposes of a race, attempt or trial undertaken in accordance with an approval given under section 40 by the Commissioner of Police.

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    Fellow Frogger! Clogzz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    Unfortunate toe rag in riced Gemini rounds corner at moderate and legal speed, guns it and does a fish tale only to find himself facing a bull wagon with flashing red and blues.

    The two officers stopped him and proceeded to get back up in the form of another car load of wallopers and a tilt tray. Firstly they went over that piece of rice from end to end and defected what they could, then they got him for the fish tale exhibition and then they loaded the rice bubble on to the tilt tray and drove off.

    I did intitially admire the work of the force, particularly when they spent the half hour defecting the car.

    It was a great piece of street theatre but they did gut the poor B something bad and I can't help but suspect that the public garroting had more to do with sending a message to the local neighbourhood than with the seriousness of the offence.
    Wonderful language...very colourful !

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    Quote Originally Posted by BogMaster
    ...and does a fish tale only to find himself facing a bull wagon...
    They probably only got angry when they found it wasn't Rex Hunt.


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    rek
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    41***Conduct associated with road and drag racing and other activities

    (cf Traffic Act, s 4BA)

    (1)* A person must not, on a road or road related area, operate a motor vehicle in such a manner as to cause the vehicle to undergo sustained loss of traction by one or more of the driving wheels (or, in the case of a motor cycle, the driving wheel) of the vehicle.
    Does that mean that lairy oversteer in a FWD car is okay?
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    Fellow Frogger! casnell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rek
    Does that mean that lairy oversteer in a FWD car is okay?
    Sooo, do you reckon handbrakeys are OK?
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    1000+ Posts Uga Boga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam740
    It was announced on teh radio news this mornignthat there is looking very likely a bill being passed by Bracksy'd Boys that will allow the Police to confiscate/intern and even SELL your car to try and "rid the roads of hoons"

    so now all it needs is a copper with an attitude problem who pulls you over and claims that you were doing burnouts or what ever and they can take your car off you......

    i know that it is more likely aimed at the import and V8 crowds but dont get caught lighting em up from the lights, specially any P platers out there!! (least i'm over 30 so less likely to have a problem!)

    welocme to the police state!!
    Doesn't effect Citroen owners, no Citroen is "hoonable" enough to be confiscated..
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  20. #20
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rek
    Does that mean that lairy oversteer in a FWD car is okay?
    As long as you dont mean it!


    (3)* In any proceedings for an offence under subsection (1) or (2), it is a defence if the person charged satisfies the court that the vehicle, although operated as referred to in subsection (1), was not so operated deliberately.
    Jo

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! cam740's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi
    As long as you dont mean it!


    (3)* In any proceedings for an offence under subsection (1) or (2), it is a defence if the person charged satisfies the court that the vehicle, although operated as referred to in subsection (1), was not so operated deliberately.
    Jo

    i can just see it now "I'm sorry Your Honour I REALLY REALLY didnt mean to powerslide up Pascoe Vale Rd".......

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    Default Its that time of course.

    Well fellas
    Sit back and look for all the stuff (legislation) that may appeal to Mr and Mrs Average coming to the table about now and in the coming months, as this is the time that governments scratch around for all that sort of stuff, you know "we are really working to make life better for our average family type VOTER!"

    Yep, guess who will be trying hard to make everyone forget the Revenue raising and every other debacle and nothing done to help anyone, except by a Government that now wants to be re-elected - activity plus!!

    Got an idea, great time to lobby!

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    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cam740
    It was announced on teh radio news this mornignthat there is looking very likely a bill being passed by Bracksy'd Boys that will allow the Police to confiscate/intern and even SELL your car to try and "rid the roads of hoons"

    so now all it needs is a copper with an attitude problem who pulls you over and claims that you were doing burnouts or what ever and they can take your car off you......

    i know that it is more likely aimed at the import and V8 crowds but dont get caught lighting em up from the lights, specially any P platers out there!! (least i'm over 30 so less likely to have a problem!)

    welocme to the police state!!
    The bottom line is that unless you have a crowd of good witnesses to back you up, you would be fairly unlikely to legally challenge the judgement of the police officer/s involved in this kind of traffic offence or any other kind of traffic offence really. Sad fact of life, the magistrates generally prefer police testimony over others if they can possibly avoid doing otherwise.

    Moral of the tale is that if Porky and Practical make off with your car on the back of a tilt tray you need to get used to walking for a while...and while doing so you also need to spend some time thinking about whether P&P just might have had some cause to do such a thing in the first place.

    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

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    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    They probably only got angry when they found it wasn't Rex Hunt.
    I guess they may have become angry when he tried to kiss them
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

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    Fellow Frogger! Ranger's Avatar
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    An interesting read from a few months back.

    http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...E28737,00.html

    Ranger.
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