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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Default Just a thought --> Morphed into The Xantia

    So I am contemplating selling the 405 Mi16 and getting something a little family friendly. Not so much in the comfy department, but the reliability one.

    I want something that is still a decent performer, handles well, but I don't have to worry about the next break down bill. The 405 has been great. But the bubby will take priority.

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    So, what car would you guys recommend as a decent steed in place of the 405 Mi16?

    Something around the same price range.

    Cheers
    pips
    Last edited by pips; 17th October 2005 at 07:40 PM.
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    Honestly Pips, a Citroen Xantia would be a fabulous car I reckon, and I'm not one eyed about these things, either.


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    1000+ Posts Uga Boga's Avatar
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    Yes and it'd be quite an upgrade going from a Poogoe to an innovative marque like Citroen!
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I bought a Xantia with high mileage a year or so back, done around 30K klms since, hardly a hiccup, just the kinds of things you expect with a car of that mileage (brake pads, cambelt, cooling fan) does around 40MPG on a run, 30+ around town and we use it to tow all the Nissans and Holdens in for breakdown work; kidding that doesn't embarrass them, particularly the ones who like putting shit on Citroens.
    Just bought another BX with acout 220K on the clock and again, as tight as a drum.


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    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    we use it to tow all the Nissans and Holdens in for breakdown work; kidding that doesn't embarrass them, particularly the ones who like putting shit on Citroens.
    I'm quite new to this whole french car following, but yeah I've noticed that quite a lot of people outside our french car fraternity put crap on Citroens. Not sure why, since they're great cars, and the marque does well in WRC. Unfortunately, this ribbing of Citroens by the general public has made some Citroen owners have a bit of an inferiority complex. Poor sods.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uga Boga
    Yes and it'd be quite an upgrade going from a Poogoe to an innovative marque like Citroen!
    Yeah, it'd be great having one of those things that pumps nice smells into the cabin. Just what I need.


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    1000+ Posts Uga Boga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    Unfortunately, this ribbing of Citroens by the general public has made some Citroen owners have a bit of an inferiority complex. Poor sods.
    Naturally
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    Yeah, it'd be great having one of those things that pumps nice smells into the cabin. Just what I need.
    I got one now, but I don't know about "nice" smells.
    We call her Chloe. Her digestive system leaves much to be desired.......................woof, woof!!

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    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Yeah. I've been bitten twice by this so called "full service history" bulldust.

    The best cars I've own are ones that were treated like crap and had no paper work apart from the rego papers.

    This pug was a one owner car, female, who had a full service history, which included things like all the other parts like belts, fuel pumps, air con maintenance, etc.

    I think next time I see a full service history, I'll look at each receipt as a list of things that are about to head south when I pay the money for it :p

    More then anything, it hurts my pride as a qualified motorcycle mechanic, that I look at a car, everything checks out, then I get it home, and it starts to fall apart which has driven me to and I'm starting to go

    I was looking at a 504 or 505. But maybe something like the Xantia sounds nice. I shall have to look into them.

    Regarding the BX, since I am not familiar with Cits, is this not essentially a 405 with a different shell? Same running gear? If so, I'm going to steer clear, based on experience. sorry.

    Cheers
    pips
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Forget the BX then, if you just want a mode of transport, but remember the Mi16 and the BX16V have one thing in common; they are a complex vehicle in comparison to a standard 405 or BX. There's one BX in the UK that has done over 900,000 MILES. but it's been owner serviced and therein lies the difference.
    In any case, a Xantia will go for around $6K these days so bloody good buying or if you want something that can really boogie, take a look on the for sale board at the CT Xantia listed today.
    Sports car performance, small car economy and handling like you couldn't imagine. Those VSX hydractive suspensions will leave most sports cars behind through the bends (Mi16 included) yet in soft mode will ride better than a Roller. Mine is a VSX but only in the 8 valve n/a version but what she lacks on the straight, she frightens the crap out of them around the bends.
    The one on the board is 10 grand. Baragin in any ones language if you want to spend that much.


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    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Yeah. It sounds like a bargain.

    Still going to do my research though.

    Still will be asking a lot of questions. I'm looking for nice pics of exterior and interior of the Xantia at this stage. As this is all the wife will be interested in. If you have some, or could take some of your own Xantia, please let me know, and you can email them to me. Or post them here if you like.

    I might go ahead and start another thread on Xantia owners, so they can post everything about the Xantia, good and bad.

    Cheers
    pips
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    Pips, one more point before you leave this thread, the Xantia is very, very solid compared to the Mi16. A world of difference, and much safer in a crash too, I'd suspect. I would have one right now on the other side of the carport if 'er indoors would have come around to my way of thinkin'. I reckon an 8 valver of those would be a pearler of a car.

    Stuey
    Last edited by Stuey; 17th October 2005 at 07:58 PM.


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    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Wife agrees on the Xantia, provided I can sell the 405 Mi16 and be able to get a Xantia with minimum outlay. Which will be a task, but fun.

    What about things like service intervals?
    How often is the timing belt suppose to be changed?
    Are the cooling system hoses a nightmare to work with?
    Are the engine mounts ridiculously over engineered?
    Is the dashboard mounted to the car or just sitting on top of the steering column like a piece of lego?

    With the Mi16, I joke with mates that I have to remove the right hand drive shaft to do anything on the car. We all laugh, but I cry as I gaze at the battle scars on my hands. :p

    Same joke I had about Apple's G3 iBooks, slightest problem, "Replace the motherboard", no matter what the issue was. :p It didn't matter, you had to replace it.

    Good to hear that the suspension maintenance is about the equivalent to a conventional type.

    What types of motors do the Xantia's come with? Are there different types? What is the most ideal that still has some performance factor? I don't mind turbo's, but n/a is fine. Depends on the price.

    I''ve put (am about to) a thread of interest in the trading forums to see what the Mi16 could fetch. Just so I know what sort of figure I could sell it for.

    Cheers
    pips
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

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    pips... on the note of 504's, and 505's, they're solid, reliable, and cheap. But that said, the performance will bore you to tears. If on the other hand you took out the performance equation it would be the perfect car for what you're looking at...

    An idea may be to keep the Mi16, and get a 504/505 as yor second car, they can go quite cheaply these days, or for that matter there is a GTDT that is for sale at the moment that would be quite nice

    On the note of xantias however, i don't think perfornace goes anywhere near that of the Mi16 unless you start looking at turbos, and V6's. A good comfortable car none the less
    Last edited by orestes; 17th October 2005 at 08:02 PM.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Interior trim is best described as somewhere between Jap and Euro; firm yet comfortable.
    Cambelt around 100K klms, overall feel is that of an extremely solid motor car (akin to Beemers and Merc) driveability is extremely good and not the kind of car you tire in on a long trip. I have done several 1000 klms plus in one day without suffering driver fatigue.
    Can do stupid things and get away with it such as braking reasonably hard on corners due to excellent ABS and active suspension (I even forgot myself and did it on a wet road once with little drama) . Climate control is superb.

    Here's a write up on Xantias per se' but dealing mainly with the diesel versions due to this guy being in the UK.

    http://www.citroenet.org.uk/passenge.../xantia-1.html

    FWIW, I understand the 2.0i same as I have is considered the bomb proof petrol engine and gives better fuel consumption than any of the 16V versions if that is any consequence. If your lady drives, she will love the driving position also which was one failing of some models of the BX; they didn't suit women for some reason. Men didn't seem to have all that much of a problem with them, but the Xantia seems to suit everybody as I've never heard a complaint from anyone on Xantia seats or seating position.
    I have a friend who is fairly large and I recently took him on a 600 klms round trip in mine and he was amazed at the comfort and support he found in it.



    Alan S
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    Pips, for the record, I have to defend the Mi16 a bit. You'd have to admit that you went into your ownership pretty unprepared. Most of us on here bought them knowing they were fairly high maintenance, for at least the first while after buying them at around 12-13 years of age until you've ironed out the niggles. After all, they are quite complex and have probably been driven quite hard given the type of car. However, with a little bit of work you have a cracking car that's great to drive, which is then very reliable.

    The design and layout, as it happens, is very similar to MANY current FWD cars...the long driveshaft extending across to one side. You'd be surprised at how many cars need major dismantling for minor work.

    The dashboard quality thing was addressed somewhat in the series 2 Mi16 (dash is totally different) and the Xantia is miles away - there is no comparison. It's not Merc. but it's pretty good. The bodyshell is tough from all accounts.

    Anyway, good luck...but don't blame the car...

    Stuey


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    Pips,
    The Xantia turbos I saw over the last few weeks had p'tags of about $10k but were latish models around 1997/8. A hell mof a lot of car for that money too I'd suspect.

    Good luck in your search. I would definatly give the auctions a look if you have the time. We picked up an absolute bargin, 2001 Renault Scenic RX4, on the road all up under $14,000. (for $19,000 s/h these days that's a bargin)
    There are definatly bargins there and being a emchanic you should have a better chance of seeing things most wouldn't
    Chris
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    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    Pips, for the record, I have to defend the Mi16 a bit. You'd have to admit that you went into your ownership pretty unprepared. Most of us on here bought them knowing they were fairly high maintenance, for at least the first while after buying them at around 12-13 years of age until you've ironed out the niggles. After all, they are quite complex and have probably been driven quite hard given the type of car. However, with a little bit of work you have a cracking car that's great to drive, which is then very reliable.

    The design and layout, as it happens, is very similar to MANY current FWD cars...the long driveshaft extending across to one side. You'd be surprised at how many cars need major dismantling for minor work.

    The dashboard quality thing was addressed somewhat in the series 2 Mi16 (dash is totally different) and the Xantia is miles away - there is no comparison. It's not Merc. but it's pretty good. The bodyshell is tough from all accounts.

    Anyway, good luck...but don't blame the car...

    Stuey
    Errr. I don't remember specifically slagging the car, and I don't think I sounded as if I was unprepared for what is required from these machines. I spent a good two months reading up and asking questions about the specific model before I bought one. And being a bike mechanic from my younger years. I am competent at most things I can do on a car, I am able to look after them and work on them most of the time. The fact that I've had to take it to Gladesville to get simple jobs done is because of my injuries from riding motorcycles, that I can no longer climb under a car and start working away.

    I think I mentioned my situation is about to change (re: the baby) and wanted something I don't have to worry about as much. The 405 is an awsome car that I will hate to part with. But as such, requires more attention then I am interested in giving, once the new addition arrives.

    I don't think I said once I am getting rid of the car because it's crap, and I hate it and I want to get something else because it's constantly breaking down, blah blah blah. I just want something that doesn't require as much attention as a Mi16, due to the fact that I'd much rather pay attention to my new family.

    Cheers
    pips
    Last edited by pips; 17th October 2005 at 08:40 PM.
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

    The software said "Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux.

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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    The problem is that you won't find many second hand French cars that don't require some sort of maintenance

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    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Ok. Seeing as everyone has missed the point. I must have said something somewhere or didn't convey the message as I intended.

    Every car requires maintenance. I know this.

    But there's a difference between maintenance, like changing plugs, belts, oils. etc...

    And there is a difference between random failures that show up out of the blue. This is what the 405 has been doing. And even then. I don't mind, the car redeems itself as soon as I get back in it and take it for a drive again.

    My priorities have changed. Now I want a car that is better suited to me current (well, soon to be) needs. And the 405 aint it anymore.

    Saying all that. I personally don't think I've had much success with this thread at all.

    Those who helped, thanks. Though who dribbled poo, good luck, and remember what the topic heading of the thread is, "Just a thought".

    cheers
    pips
    Ever wonder why Mad Scientist talk to themselves? They know others just wouldn't understand.

    The software said "Windows 98 or better". So I installed Linux.

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    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    what i was saying has little to do with regular maintance, I was also talking about random failures as you were Pips. On my 205, so far i've had to change wheel bearings, a cv joint, and a few other things i can't really remember. What I was saying is that second cars are rarely trouble free, more so (i hate to admit it) when there french

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! pips's Avatar
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    Well, I could argue that.

    Though I will agree, 2nd hand cars require more attention, I'm looking for one that doesn't require as much. Hence this thread.

    pipsqeek
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  23. #23
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Pips,

    You hit the nail on the head before. If you look at a car, get hold of the service records, look at what's been done and first up run back over it.
    I am presently sorting a FSH car.
    Oil like tar, filter has been changed sometime in its life, (I think) LHM lovely gold colour but not too bad, ATF has been changed but with the wrong stuff so changed it again, spark plugs well overdue, injectors need servicing, LHM filters; needed cleaning, spheres; half to 2/3rds flat; recharge. Air/con control; broken needs repair. Cambelt needs doing. Wires to brake pad wear indicators; broken needs repair. Return line from strut; broken and leaking onto inside of tyre. Repair. Filler cap and breather lines; choked with crap; need cleaning. Oil leak from oil pressure light sender; replace sender. So it goes on.

    I don't condemn the service guys for this as it must be acknowledged that I have spent all day doing pissy little jobs that a specialist would be crucified if he hung a bill on someone for a few hundred dollars doing this work; there's a limit on how much stuffing around someone charging many $$s an hour can spend on incidental items, so either they go the extra mile and do them one by one as part of the service on cars as the car comes in for various jobs (a good PR exercise) or they ignore them as a fact of life. In that case, fussy buggers like you and me spend mega hours trying to catch up on these. The end result is that when someone buys our cars, they look down their noses at our DIY efforts but don't appreciate the fact that whilst the pros have done the major stuff as a matter of course, we have spent more time on the detail, so anyone buying my car or yours gets the advantage of the "pros" doing the major stuff and you and I being pedantic on the finer details.
    Look for an owner that does at least some of the general maintenance on his/her car.
    This one I have is basically as solid as a rock and will go for years before it wears out (possibly another 200K klms) which is going to make it a good proposition for someone eventually).
    That's the kind of car that I feel you should be looking for.


    Alan S
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  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Gee's Guys,

    The 406/Xantia is a slightly bigger car all over... Ease of maitenance ...

    Lets see, the engine bay .... Designed to fit a whopping bloody V6 in.... With the 4cylinder 8valve, not only is there LOTS of space, you can even see the ground (a first ever).

    Cambelt access is still tight, but no easier/worst than any other east/west engined car (probably a hell of a lot easier than a north/south with the back of the motor wedged agasint the firewall).

    There's not really anything down the back of the motor that needs to be accessed. The plugs, leads, injection manifold, hydro pump, etc... are staring you straight in the face. The battery is the same, as is the air filter.... Access very easy

    In the 405/BX is all wedged in a very small space.

    I've attached some old photo's of mine (didn't even wash it ), if you look closely you can see a *real* car in the background

    I'll take a piccie of the underbonnet if you like, I'll just have to move the car into the shed.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Engine...

    Easily accessed (plain view), starter, air cleaner, spark plugs, air cleaner, battery ... ie: the most commonly accessed items. You can even see grass through the engine bay
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