Fuel from the kitchen
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Uga Boga's Avatar
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    Default Fuel from the kitchen

    Fuel from the kitchen

    By Muriel Boselli
    The Age
    Friday September 30 2005

    Some French motorists are dodging the near-record price of conventional oil by illegally using pure vegetable oil as a substitute for diesel.

    Despite the European Union pushing for the development of pure vegetable oils as an alternative to traditional fuels, they have never been legally permitted in France. Motorists who use them risk being fined.

    But in Germany, trucking companies are increasingly using normal rapeseed oil as a cheap fuel alternative to higher-grade rapeseed biodiesel.

    "At least 2000 to 3000 French motorists are using between 50 and 100 per cent pure vegetable oil in their tanks right now," said Alain Juste, manager of Valenergol, a distribution company for sunflower oil.

    Mr Juste, who is president of the Pure Vegetable Oil Institute, said he based his estimate on the 700 small-sized crushing machines in use. "Most of the oil production goes in car tanks," he said.

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    Mr Juste, who has been producing vegetable oil for motorists for the past 12 years, says the interest in pure vegoil has multiplied by 30 in the past three to four months, when pump prices started to take off.

    "Vegetable oil, which is either made from rapeseed or sunflower, costs 0.70-0.80 euros per litre against 1.18 euros ($A1.42) per litre for diesel," he said.

    "Many motorists are also going straight to supermarkets to buy vegetable oil destined for human consumption."

    But the use of oil made for human consumption should not exceed 50 per cent of a tank and should be filtered, Mr Juste said.

    "Over that limit you could have injection problems in your motor," he said.

    Biofuels in France are split between ethanol, a combustible fuel made from sugar beet or cereals that can be blended with conventional fuel, and biodiesel, mainly produced from rapeseed, which is then blended with diesel.

    "It's outrageous that biofuels such as ethanol and biodiesel should get tax breaks when we are not even allowed to commercialise our product, which is far more friendly to the environment," Mr Juste said.

    Reuters

    http://www.drive.com.au/editorial/ar...vf=2&bg=1&pp=2

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Default "Frying Squad"

    [QUOTE=Uga Boga]Fuel from the kitchen

    A while back quite a few motorists in england were using vegetable oil to run their cars. The stuff was disapearing from supermarket shelves as fast as they could fill them. The loss of exise prompted the formation of a special police squad nicknamed "The Frying Squad". Dogs were used to sniff out vehicles running on vegetable oil.
    Although much maligned the diesel engine will run on almost anything combustible. Rudolph Diesel, the engine's inventor had been commissioned by the German Coal Board to build an engine to run on coal dust. He managed to do that but the engine blew up nearly taking him with it. He decided that it was safer to run the engine on peanut oil. In the case of vegetable oil the oil is heated to reduce its viscosity when used in a diesel engine designed to run on petroleum diesel. Most serious vegetable oil users have a dual fuel system. They start up on petroleum diesel or biodiesel. The engine coolant is used to heat the veg oil. Once up to temperature the changeover to vegetable oil is performed via solenoid valves. At shutdown the system is purged with diesel or biodiesel.

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! sdabel's Avatar
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    I have tried putting a couple of litres of canola oil in my diesel. Seems to make no difference to anything (I was expecting a smoother engine). Diesel has to get a lot more expensive to make this a cost savings however.

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    sean
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  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    The French are being a bit inconsistent if you read this I posted a day or so back.

    Jacque's back..............in a Citroen C6

    Using used deep fry oil in the UK has brought out the "Chipper dogs" and I have heard that if they get a sniff of chip oil, they do an estimate on what they reckon you've used in this stuff and tax you at the same rate as fossil fuels.
    They're all so genuine in their attempts to reduce global warming/greenhouse gases etc these politicians, aren't they?


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Default Biodiesel.

    [QUOTE=Alan S]The French are being a bit inconsistent if you read this I posted a day or so back.

    Jacque's back..............in a Citroen C6

    I find it ammusing to read of diesel cars being "converted to run on biodiesel".
    In most cases there is no conversion required. Just pour the biodiesel into the tank.

    Modern cars have very little rubber or anything similar in the fuel system that could be damaged by biodiesel. Low sulphur diesel is more of a problem especially with its reduced lubricating properties and tendency to wear injector pumps. French petroleum diesel has 2% biodiesel added by law. This is enough to bring the lubricating quality of the mix up to the required level.

    Biodiesel, mixes with petroleum diesel, can be used as a blend or neat.
    A wise precaution when using biodiesel is to fit a disposable filter in the fuel line before the expensive standard filter. Biodiesel is a great solvent for the gunk that petroleum diesel has deposited in your tank over the years. Once it has cleaned the tank no problem.

    Paul.
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  6. #6
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Ahh yes, but you forget, we are dealing here with Politicians....... and everything that happens they have to be "seen" doing something to make it happen.

    Like our lot who if they get a long range weather forecast will arrange a TV shoot with the local aborigines (who normally they wouldn't be seen dead with unless they've just won a Grand final) doing a "rain dance" and then a few days later when the predicted rains arrive, claim credit for bringing it via the rain dance with no mention of the forecast or prevailing weather conditions.
    JC was just doing this as publicity for Citroen and no doubt the rest of their car industry will now make similar claims which is a plus for their manufacturing industry and as a promo to the farmers and thereby shore up support with the primary industries lobby; got nothing to do with practical application.
    The same brain deaders that swallow that also swallow stories about needing an urban assault vehicle as a safety measure to take little Sally to kindy and that's a substantial market.

    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Alan S]Ahh yes, but you forget, we are dealing here with Politicians....... and everything that happens they have to be "seen" doing something to make it happen.

    Yes the old adage:
    "Justice must not only be done it must be seen to be done"
    could be rewritten in polly speak as.
    "Let it be seen top be done, justice or not"

    Paul.
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    Couple of petrol 504 sedans,
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    505 sedan, being stripped,
    505 wagon (if only the back doors would open )
    505 wagon (in Melbourne, how the bloody hell do I get it up here)
    Hilux tow vehicle ( shhh its a 4wd) sipping biodiesel

  8. #8
    Member dom19's Avatar
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    Default Vege oil in diesels.

    There is a guy here in SA who collects used vege oil from fish & chip shops etc, heats it to remove any water and filters it a couple of times then sells it for 88 cents per litre. People are using it to run their diesel cars. Cheaper than $1.30 per litre.
    Dom

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dom19
    There is a guy here in SA who collects used vege oil from fish & chip shops etc, heats it to remove any water and filters it a couple of times then sells it for 88 cents per litre. People are using it to run their diesel cars. Cheaper than $1.30 per litre.
    Dom
    At that price you would have to use an awful lot to justify the conversion cost and inconveneince.
    This side of the block most of the fish and chip shops use precooked chips.
    They are precooked in tallow because "it tastes nice". The tallow ends up in the cooking oil. Other shops use straight tallow instead of veg oil, lasts longer. Tallow has good fuel value but at normal temperatures it solidifies forming a slurry with the veg oil.
    Perhaps he is letting the drums stand for a while and decanting the oil from the top. Problem then is he has to get rid of the tallow. Could make biodiesel out of it but tallow biodiesel has a higher cloud point than veg biodiesel and this can cause flow problems in the colder months.

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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Uga Boga's Avatar
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    Does this work with the newer diesel engines tho? Especially the PSA diesel engines, which are considered the best and most advanced in the world? How far would you get, using oil from fish and chips?
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts 504-504-504's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uga Boga
    Does this work with the newer diesel engines tho? Especially the PSA diesel engines, which are considered the best and most advanced in the world? How far would you get, using oil from fish and chips?
    No idea and wouldn't be game to try it.
    Aparently the early Mercedes diesel engines were damn near indestructible and would almost run on veg oil without modification.
    Would suspect that very modern diesels would be optimised towards petroleum diesel and not like other fuels.
    Have heard that it is not recommended to use veg oil with direct injection diesels.

    Paul.
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  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    Default Biodiesel in modern diesels

    I have been making biodiesel for three years and have been using it in a 94 Discovery, 96 306 XRDT, Kubota tractor (3 & 2 cylinder), 6 cyl Landcruiser, Hilux, 405 and many more. I have had no problems except stalling from the 2 cyl tractor once it got hot.

    Biodiesel is being made in every small town and city in Australia. Around me there are biodiesel brewers everywhere. Some sell the stuff, but fewer and fewer do. A few commercial plants are planned, watch the web.

    Modern European diesels are optimised towards biodiesel as there is more and more of it being sold commercially as the pollution is so much lower. Most european diesel is a mix of 2-20% biodiesel, with Germany now selling 100%

    Check out your local chippy!

    Quote Originally Posted by 504-504-504
    No idea and wouldn't be game to try it.
    Aparently the early Mercedes diesel engines were damn near indestructible and would almost run on veg oil without modification.
    Would suspect that very modern diesels would be optimised towards petroleum diesel and not like other fuels.
    Have heard that it is not recommended to use veg oil with direct injection diesels.

    Paul.
    504-504-504
    Northern Outpost

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