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  1. #1
    XTC
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    Default Interesting List of Times.

    http://www.letstorquebhp.com/fwd.asp

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    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    I can see why the 130bhp spec 205 gti is so sought after. Not sure how a 406 V6 would beat a GTi6 to 60mph.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

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    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Free
    I can see why the 130bhp spec 205 gti is so sought after. Not sure how a 406 V6 would beat a GTi6 to 60mph.
    I'm not surprised, given the power to weight ratio is to the 406 V6's advantage.

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    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    I'm not so sure, the times are theoretical and hence don't take into account the gearbox on the GTi6 which is a gem and keeps the car in its maximum power band better.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

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    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Free
    I'm not so sure, the times are theoretical and hence don't take into account the gearbox on the GTi6 which is a gem and keeps the car in its maximum power band better.
    Ahh, it's not that amazing

    There's a nicer box in the Golf

    Secondly, lets not also forget that you actually lose time shifting gears - if you can get away with a single shift to 60mph in a 406 V6 vs two in the 6sp GTi-6, you might well erase any benefit of a the GTi-6's ratios and the engine's power band.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! J206GTI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Ahh, it's not that amazing

    There's a nicer box in the Golf

    Secondly, lets not also forget that you actually lose time shifting gears - if you can get away with a single shift to 60mph in a 406 V6 vs two in the 6sp GTi-6, you might well erase any benefit of a the GTi-6's ratios and the engine's power band.
    mmm....the less gears = faster times didn't quite work on the 307WRC though....
    Jason

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  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    This one is a surprise:

    Citroen Xsara VTS 02 167 1239 136.95 7.75 21.39 13.64 16.18 86.98 15.98 88.46

    I'm stunned at how quick the 205GTi's they got over there are Why were ours so slow

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    Quote Originally Posted by J206GTI
    mmm....the less gears = faster times didn't quite work on the 307WRC though....
    Bleh, we're talking about road cars

    On factory specs, the 406 Coupe V6 manual is faster than the GTi-6 - 7.8s vs 8.2s 0-100km/h.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
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    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    I'm not surprised, given the power to weight ratio is to the 406 V6's advantage.
    And the Coupe that is listed is the D8. The D9 has 210 horses. But their 1350kg Coupe weight is wrong. From memory even in 2.0L form it is heavier than this. My '01 weighs 1485kg and an auto version is over 1500kg. Still lighter than a 407 Coupe. Peugeot are going the way of the Nissan 240z/260z/280z/300zx. Each new model gets fatter and heavier.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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  10. #10
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Peugeot are going the way of the Nissan 240z/260z/280z/300zx. Each new model gets fatter and heavier.
    And the Golf GTi another classic case in point, but at least with a MkV they have given it the ponies the MkIV always lacked ... now THAT was a slug GTi !!!

    - xTc -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    And the Golf GTi another classic case in point, but at least with a MkV they have given it the ponies the MkIV always lacked ... now THAT was a slug GTi !!!

    - xTc -
    Only through the use of a turbo, which IMO is against the rules for GTIs.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    And the Golf GTi another classic case in point, but at least with a MkV they have given it the ponies the MkIV always lacked ... now THAT was a slug GTi !!!
    Everyone's cars are getting heavier. The Golf GTI is 1340kg.

    The only significant car I can recall in recent memory that lost weight, is the current Toyota Corolla.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  13. #13
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    The only significant car I can recall in recent memory that lost weight, is the current Toyota Corolla.
    Mazda tried hard with the new MX5 ... but it gained 20kg roughly ... not bad considering the uprated safety and the extra cc's and kw's.

    - xTc -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Everyone's cars are getting heavier. The Golf GTI is 1340kg.
    Which is alot when compared to the mark 1 Golf. But the new one is faster, safer, more comfortable, and probably uses less fuel (when tested under the same criteria). But is it more fun?
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

    Polo Green '01 406 Coupe (5spd Man)
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  15. #15
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by kermit
    Only through the use of a turbo, which IMO is against the rules for GTIs.
    Nah .. it'll become the norm soon. Just like VVT and multivalve etc etc .. just the usual advancement to try and stay in front of the competition.

    - xTc -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  16. #16
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Everyone's cars are getting heavier. The Golf GTI is 1340kg.
    With 10ltrs of fuel , so full tank and 2 people aboard that's a 200Kg gain (or more). Race drivers often say if you want your car quicker ... just go on a diet !

    - xTc -
    You're not fooling everyone, or did you forget? .......




    '02 Peugeot 206 GTi / '07 VW Golf GTI
    Now this is a .sig
    AF'd in PER, MEL, SYD, ADL, CBR

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts kermit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    Nah .. it'll become the norm soon. Just like VVT and multivalve etc etc .. just the usual advancement to try and stay in front of the competition.

    - xTc -
    It has been the norm for years for Saab/Volvo with their low pressure turbos. and makes sense from a fuel economy point of view.
    Cheers Simon
    >8-]

    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts rustymunga's Avatar
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    These times are incorrect?

    Peugeot 206 GTi 180 (0-100kmph) 6.58s


    ??????

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    Cars are getting heavier due to more and more regulations imposed by governments, that's what I think anyway. This pedestrian safety one for starters in Europe that has made the 407 look like a krill feeding whale.


    I remember watching some Jeremy Clarkson video ages ago where he raced a Mk2 Golf GTI against a MkIV Golf GTI and spanked it.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustymunga
    These times are incorrect?

    Peugeot 206 GTi 180 (0-100kmph) 6.58s


    ??????
    Rusty, no these times are not correct. As per http://www.letstorquebhp.com/explained.asp these times are all theoretical and is based purely on power to weight. Some cars are much better than others at putting down that power. There are many different factors, but even when just looking at power to weight, the actual power delivery is also a big factor on the way a car accelerates. During a 0-100 drag run for example, the engine will progress through a particular rev range in each gear that is used to get to 100kph. i.e the engine will for example wind out from 5000rpm to 7500rpm. Those might not be the exact rev range, but you get the point. When power is quoted, it's peak power at, for example, 7500rpm. Now say for a particular car, if the power delivery is crap, and say for arguments sake power at 5000rpm was half of peak power, then that car is not going to accelerate as quickly as another car with the same weight and same peak power, but where power at 5000rpm is say 75% of peak power. So basically it comes down to the area under the power/torque curve within the range of useable rpm that matters to real life performance.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I'm stunned at how quick the 205GTi's they got over there are Why were ours so slow
    The 'Export' GTi's had an incredibly low compression ratio and a different head. I'm sure there are other differences but the reason for that 25hp difference is primarily due to the compression and head design I believe.

    The 1.6 with the 'XU9JA' head even made 115hp, so to make 105hp the 1.9 XU motor was obviously fairly strangled. If buying a GTi here I would easily take the 1.6 over the 'Export' 1.9.

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts rustymunga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    ...There are many different factors, but even when just looking at power to weight, the actual power delivery is also a big factor on the way a car accelerates. During a 0-100 drag run for example, the engine will progress through a particular rev range in each gear that is used to get to 100kph. i.e the engine will for example wind out from 5000rpm to 7500rpm...
    I see Thanks U Turn

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! PLAYLIFE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustymunga
    I see Thanks U Turn

    Also doesn't take into account tyre/surface friction coefficients for differing compounds and road surfaces as well as aerodynamic forces (although these will be minimal at speeds ~<80km/hr)
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Acceleration rates are important as well.
    Two cars can have equal times to 100k but one could be lengths ahead of the other on the road or track.
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