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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Default Cars and forum members in general

    The cross section of forum members is amazing.
    Ages must range from 8 (?) to 80 and makes Aussie Frogs one of the best motoring forums I have seen.

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    Many have probably only driven front wheel drive cars and a crash box would probably mean nothing and double de-clutch is for real "oldies".

    Most though have the feeling for the motor car as something to enjoy and not another method of transport. This is of course not acceptable to some State Govts and they also enjoy trying to stop drivers using their car they way they were supposed to be used.

    Some understand why someone would spend $20,000 on an EH, Lotus Cortina, knowing they will never recover their money. Same reason 203, 403, 404 and 504 still attract fans. They had that little magic that computer design and accountants have done to the bland offerings of many manufacturers.
    There is a guy down the road from me, retired cocky, who drives a 80s MB but in last couple of years has restored-to driveable condition- not show cars- a couple of early Benz, Daimler Dart, Morris Minor and is now working on a 1928 Austin 7. Most of these vehicles are owned by another cocky who has a shed full of cars of all types and ages. He bought ones he liked then put them in shed.
    Trying to get invite to look at what's there.

    Having owned an Austin 7 (first car) I can't wait to have drive when it is mobile.

    Having been lucky enough to have driven many of the cars on Aussie Fogs-not many of the late model FWDs- I still enjoy seeing a 404, 504 and 505s being driven-the same with Renaults from 750 to Fuegos.
    They all had character which I find hard to find in some makes today.
    Hope this is not too boring.
    1986 Renault Fuego GTX
    1972 Mercedes Benz 280E
    1988 Nissan Trakka Campervan
    1972 VW Kombi

    In business, words are words; explanations are explanations, promises are promises, but only performance is reality.
    Harold Ganeen.

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts CHRI'S16's Avatar
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    Not at all in fact WELCOME!....
    Your in good company with the Fuego.... don't worry we will forgive you if you sell it.
    Hell I dont even own a frenchie (any more) and I hang roun like an unwanted waft. - Chris

    ps, im not an oldie and I know exactly what your talking bout and drove nearly every car you've mentioned. 8years valet parking you learn a thing or too.
    ... ptui!

  3. #3
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    Chris, Westy isn't a newbie...

    Westair, I used to live in the country, and I remember there was a reclusive farmer just out of town who had a barn full of old cars. I mean big black 30's style, with chrome exhausts coming out the side of the up-and-over bonnet, like a Deusenberg. These were tucked away, covered in dust. My mates whose families had been in town for generations showed me.

    I still wonder about them...one day I'll have a poke around.

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  4. #4
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Icon10 who ya callin old!!!! eeek!

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    and a crash box would probably mean nothing and double de-clutch is for real "oldies".
    ahemmmm.....some of us "not so old" have experienced crash gearboxes....& were taught to double clutch too
    (mind you, the "real oldies" taught us how to do it! )

    Aus
    Aus
    ".....the good health of a pond is held in a delicate balance. A pond's condition
    deteriorates when the bottom environment cannot support animal life.
    The bottom is the area that runs out of oxygen first, it is where the most oxygen is used........"



    '84 fuego GTX
    '87 fuego GTX
    '85 fuego GTX
    ....beginning to look a bit frightning isn't it.

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts n b j's Avatar
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    yeah the first car I learnt to drive on was a badly conditioned 1956 356A Porsche. The car was more then 25 years older then me.

    When my dad got rid of that I continued learning to drive in a 1967 Mercedes 250 SE Coupe, a 73 Holden Kingswood and a BMW Z3.

    I finally got my license and did the test in 1993 Mazda 121 bubble car But mainly spent my time driving a 65 Mustang Coupe and a 1973 Porsche RS

    Just because some of us are youngens doesn't mean we're not familar with crash gearboxes and no syncro (in the case of the Porshce, Hi-Torque boxes, and Hi-Torque Centerforce racing clutch)

    I know this is off topic a biit, but sometimes young people get a hard wrap when it comes to driving habbits or abilities, but I guess stereotypes can sometimes fit But not all youngens are clueless on the road!

    I can outdrive my dad now around eastern creek (he still beats me around wakefield) and he has a good 20 years racing experience on me.

    Westair, I agree, this forum is a tops place with mostly like minded people. I may not own a frenchie for much longer, but I'll still hang around here if I replace my car with a non frenchie, I can still offer advice to people who own them (especially 206 owners). It's been really helpful to me over the years, the knowledge here astounds me.

    btw, get behind the wheel of a fench FWD car. They really do handle well you can even make them oversteer depending on your setup just a shame about the build quality *ducks for cover*
    "Do my eyes deceive me, or is Senna's Lotus sounding rough ?" - Murray Walker
    206XR 1.6ltr - SOLD
    BMW E36 325i Coupe
    73 Porsche 911RS

  6. #6
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Umm yeah ive learnt how to drive on a car without synchro - did make for some interesting gearchanges and attempts for gear changes, im probably the last of the "learner" drivers which has had to experience a car to learn on without synchro in all gears, airconditioning and powersteering! Go the mighty Holden Sunbird!

    As for front wheel drive cars - the only one i have really driven was my driving instructors corolla which i only used for a few lessons.

    My friends which are the same age as me do also have a passion for older cars, owning various cars such as 70's holdens, Beetles and my mate who is doin a full resto on his R12. Then again my friends all drive their parents or their "other" cars which are more modern with features such as EFI, ABS, Airbags etc etc, these old cars arent driven as daily drivers!

    The people my age arent given the experience with "older" cars purely for the fact that their parents dont own one for their children to drive or simply do not want them to be driving an older car. Many parents see older cars with a high degree of being "unsafe" (as they do lack in some of the crash safety features of the cars of today) I would love to be driving a Citroen CX, Renault Fuego or Peugeot 504 - cars i have a real passion for but its the constant fear of having someone ram into you and not having say side impact beams or crumple zones to help you incase of an impact (just using examples - safety features of older cars differ greatly). Dont forget, older cars are also considered to be unreliable, costing buckets of money to keep on the road (yeah right)

    Today, there is always the expectation to keep up appearances. For example say if i drove to school in a 30 year old Citroen CX, paint slightly faded etc etc - the majority of the people i know would say "Look at that hunk of junk" or "why did you buy such a rustbucket", people dont think that I might actually like my 30 year old Cx and that im extremely happy driving it. It would be a totally different story if say instead of the Cx i rocked up to school in somthing like a 2005 Corolla, people would be saying "What a nice car, can i be your friend" (not saying that everyone is shallow as this) I think many kids would take the route of having the more asthetically pleasing car to impress their mates - Am i wrong?

    Also, the culture of "Autosalon" and the turboed scene has seen many of the youth turn away from older cars as its in much of the "pop" culture which we see today which is seen to be fashionable.

    Don't worry, ill be driving my Fuego/CX/504 one day - Ill make sure of it!

    Stalled
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

    2004 Citroen C3 1.4 80th Anniversary (RIP)

  7. #7
    al
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    Old cars... I've been driving a 68 daimler for the last three days, and it was VERY nice to get back in the 405 tonight...
    405 Mi16 - Sold - Now back
    205 Mi16
    505 GTi

  8. #8
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    Default New but different is nice!

    Quote Originally Posted by al
    Old cars... I've been driving a 68 daimler for the last three days, and it was VERY nice to get back in the 405 tonight...
    Yes I enjoy driving older cars, and it is great with the Fuego, when a ruddy great big Toorak tank driven by an aggressive lady driver tries to roar around you on the Roundabout at the top of Bourke Road, North and Lower Heidelberg Road , but you have changed down and planted the foot in the Fuego and leave her for dead up through the cutting and all done so neatly and nicely, no fuss and blondie has to wait till the other side of the cutting to do 90 kph down the Hill towards the Camera car!! oh well....... but she has to get past that dammed little car!!

    And then to get into the Laguna, a completely different experience, relaxing and very comfortable, good performance and stopping power - love my cars.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED
    Also, the culture of "Autosalon" and the turboed scene has seen many of the youth turn away from older cars as its in much of the "pop" culture which we see today which is seen to be fashionable.



    Stalled
    I would not think that is entirely true,when you consider how old some of the nissans are that are coveted so much. the early mazda's have always featured heavily in that scene, some dating back to the early seventies. The most curiosity my fuego gets is from this group of kids, as they detect a hint of performance when I'm still keeping up.
    Jo

  10. #10
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    Welcome to the forum your first sentence in your message is a total compliment to all of us.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts okalford's Avatar
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    I've only ever driven rear wheel drives, Pugs of course!

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Alastair Browne's Avatar
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    There is no doubt. This is THE BEST FORUM.

    And we should give every encouragement to our younger (under 40) readers to keep the older cars going.

    Alastair

  13. #13
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    Default I agree

    Quote Originally Posted by Alastair Browne
    There is no doubt. This is THE BEST FORUM.

    And we should give every encouragement to our younger (under 40) readers to keep the older cars going.

    Alastair
    And I include those younger (under 60!!) readers also in your sentiments

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    Spent the last two days driving a Bedford K with NO syncromesh.
    The left leg is now noticably larger than the right.
    Once mastered the changes were, smooth as, (its been a long time since we last chashed gears).
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
    2003 T5 307 HDI
    2013 LandRover90
    Sacred cows make the best hamburger mince.
    If you run, you only die tired

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! biologist's Avatar
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    On occasion I looked after a mates Fiat 500. This was a very early model
    with the "Seemore" doors [hinges at the back of the door, think about it ]
    The gearbox used a carbon block thrust 'bearing' to assist the gearchanges.
    This was a tricky beast to change gears as the carbon block would stall
    the engine if left pushed in for to long
    So you very quickly got used to nice quick smooth gearchanges and never
    sat with your foot on the clutch pedal. It was fun to drive but with zero
    power and torque it was always a relief to get into a real car with four
    cyclinders

    cheers,
    Biologist
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    one Megane Family

  16. #16
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    biologist, an ex-girlfriend of mine had a Fiat 500. Was a later model than your mate's I'm sure, but it still had a full crash box. My Cooper S felt like a Ferrari after that...


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  17. #17
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I probably took "crash" gearboxes to the outer limits by buying a driving school with a '56 De Soto, 6 tonner as the vehicle for doing "C" Class (now HR) liicences with.
    With no power steering, mechanical clutch, after market trafficators fitted as a 2 way toggle switch on the dash and no dual controls due to the pedals being the through the floor type not pendant and a handbrake that was at right angles to the floor and needed two hands to activate/release I paid the local Transport Dept office a visit prior to finalising the purchase to be sure they were prepared to continue doing licence tests in this beast.
    Response was "Go for it; anybody who can get over the test course in that, can drive anything!!"
    Amongst my students I had the majority of coppers from the Police Academy who used to drive down from Brisbane for lessons and tests, Red-E-mix concrete truck drivers, bus drivers prior to taking the "D" class test, Army bods coming out of their time with the forces wanting a "civvies" licence, even young women involved in Equestrian who had bought a horse float to cart the horses around.
    It became quite an attraction amongst some of the trades and professions needing licences (garbos, food wholesakers and the like).
    The criteria I set before they went for a licence test was that besides doing the standard "tricks" expected by the tester, I used to assess their ability to competantly drive this vehicle by making them drive over the test course without using the clutch for anything apart from stopping and hill starts. This included driving in traffic and both up and down through the gears.
    For the benefit of anyone with any doubts as to my mental stability, I must also mention, this was done in Surfers Paradise and whilst I'm talking a few years back now, it should be remembered that most lessons were done on a Saturday morning due to most students working during the week, just as all the tourists arrived for the weekend.
    We did have a few fun mornings!!


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Good to see you taught some of them properly.
    The original definition for the clutch was somehing like this "to assist in the starting and stopping of the vehicle".

    Cars like T Ford were virtually automatics or close to with the epicyclic gearbox. Pedal was mainly for reverse.
    1986 Renault Fuego GTX
    1972 Mercedes Benz 280E
    1988 Nissan Trakka Campervan
    1972 VW Kombi

    In business, words are words; explanations are explanations, promises are promises, but only performance is reality.
    Harold Ganeen.

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    I probably took "crash" gearboxes to the outer limits by buying a driving school with a '56 De Soto, 6 tonner as the vehicle for doing "C" Class (now HR) liicences with.
    With no power steering, mechanical clutch, after market trafficators fitted as a 2 way toggle switch on the dash and no dual controls due to the pedals being the through the floor type not pendant and a handbrake that was at right angles to the floor and needed two hands to activate/release I paid the local Transport Dept office a visit prior to finalising the purchase to be sure they were prepared to continue doing licence tests in this beast.
    Response was "Go for it; anybody who can get over the test course in that, can drive anything!!"
    Amongst my students I had the majority of coppers from the Police Academy who used to drive down from Brisbane for lessons and tests, Red-E-mix concrete truck drivers, bus drivers prior to taking the "D" class test, Army bods coming out of their time with the forces wanting a "civvies" licence, even young women involved in Equestrian who had bought a horse float to cart the horses around.
    It became quite an attraction amongst some of the trades and professions needing licences (garbos, food wholesakers and the like).
    The criteria I set before they went for a licence test was that besides doing the standard "tricks" expected by the tester, I used to assess their ability to competantly drive this vehicle by making them drive over the test course without using the clutch for anything apart from stopping and hill starts. This included driving in traffic and both up and down through the gears.
    For the benefit of anyone with any doubts as to my mental stability, I must also mention, this was done in Surfers Paradise and whilst I'm talking a few years back now, it should be remembered that most lessons were done on a Saturday morning due to most students working during the week, just as all the tourists arrived for the weekend.
    We did have a few fun mornings!!


    Alan S
    The guy my brother used to cut wood with had a HR truck with a Road Ranger crash box. His opinion of them is "Good drivers love 'em, bad drivers can't destroy them"

    I'm guessing it's one of those gearboxs you had in the old Desoto.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  20. #20
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    The old DeSoto had just a straight 4 speed full crash box.
    The Road Rangers usually consisted of a 4 speeder coupled to another 4 speed "joey" box and then in some cases attached to a split diff, so you ended up with a 32 speed gearbox. It was literally a case of a gear for all occasions.
    I took a couple in their work trucks at the insistence of their employers and they were a real fun thing particularly as you had to teach them how to change 2 crash boxes simultaneously and sometimes then follow this up immediately by switching to the different rear axle ratio.
    When you saw how busy it was at "the office" it wasn't hard to understand why those old trucks used to have as many prangs as they did. Modern stuff is like driving a limo by comparison.


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  21. #21
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    The old DeSoto had just a straight 4 speed full crash box.
    The Road Rangers usually consisted of a 4 speeder coupled to another 4 speed "joey" box and then in some cases attached to a split diff, so you ended up with a 32 speed gearbox. It was literally a case of a gear for all occasions.
    I took a couple in their work trucks at the insistence of their employers and they were a real fun thing particularly as you had to teach them how to change 2 crash boxes simultaneously and sometimes then follow this up immediately by switching to the different rear axle ratio.
    When you saw how busy it was at "the office" it wasn't hard to understand why those old trucks used to have as many prangs as they did. Modern stuff is like driving a limo by comparison.


    Alan S
    Yep, that's the one... And he swore you need every gear there when there was a big load on

    I've never driven a proper crash box, but they have never really worried me .... If I can drive a CX with no synchro's for a couple of year without crunching them, no doubt I'll be able to match the revs in a slow revving truck

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  22. #22
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    The slow revs weren't the problem, getting the revs up to where you needed them and lifting the load at the precise time when you're in 4th in the joey, first in the main box, you're full on with load and have a string of cars sitting up your jacksy and you have to go from 4 th to third in one box....1st to 4 th in another and the sobering thought of a set of drum brakes to try to catch everything if it all goes pearshaped.
    No wonder we all used to be chain smokers!!


    Alan S
    If it ain't broke, use a 12" shifter.....that usually does the trick!!

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! biologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    biologist, an ex-girlfriend of mine had a Fiat 500. Was a later model than your mate's I'm sure, but it still had a full crash box. My Cooper S felt like a Ferrari after that...
    The cooper would have felt like a rocket ship compared to the 500!
    I think my mates car was a 58 or 59 model?? I think its in the Whiteman Park
    Museum now on long term lone, great little car if your not in a hurry.

    cheers,
    Biologist
    ----------------
    A
    one Megane Family

  24. #24
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    Fairly sure hers was a 62 - it had normal doors, anyway.


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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