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Thread: Fuel prices

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Default Fuel prices

    Received this twice today. Can't vouch for figures but could be a good idea

    Subject: Action on fuel prices


    It has been calculated that if everyone in Australia did not purchase a drop of petrol for one day, all on the same day, the oil companies would choke on their own stockpiles.

    At the same time it would hit the entire industry with a net loss over 4.6 billion dollars, which affects the bottom lines of the oil companies.

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    To remind those above that the real power lies below, Thursday September 22nd 2005 has been formally declared "stick it up their behind " day. The people of this nation should not buy a single drop of petrol that day.

    This can only be done if you forward this e-mail to as many people as you can and as quickly as you can to get the word out.

    Waiting on the government to step in and control the prices is not going to happen. What happened to the reduction and control in prices that the Arab nations promised weeks ago?

    Remember one thing, not only is the price of petrol going up but at the same time airlines are forced to raise their prices, trucking companies are forced to raise their prices which effectsprices on everything that is shipped. Things like food, clothing, building supplies medical supplies etc.

    Who pays in the end? We do!

    We can make a difference. If they don't get the message after one day, we will do it again and again.

    Forward this email to everyone you know. Mark your calendars and make September 22nd the day that the citizens of Australia say "enough is enough".
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    Frankly this has holes you can drive a bus through. If you don't buy fuel "today", when are you going to buy it? Tomorrow etc. I think the fuel companies can wait a day to get your $$$$.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Received this twice today. Can't vouch for figures but could be a good idea

    Subject: Action on fuel prices


    It has been calculated that if everyone in Australia did not purchase a drop of petrol for one day, all on the same day, the oil companies would choke on their own stockpiles.

    At the same time it would hit the entire industry with a net loss over 4.6 billion dollars, which affects the bottom lines of the oil companies.

    To remind those above that the real power lies below, Thursday September 22nd 2005 has been formally declared "stick it up their behind " day. The people of this nation should not buy a single drop of petrol that day.

    This can only be done if you forward this e-mail to as many people as you can and as quickly as you can to get the word out.

    Waiting on the government to step in and control the prices is not going to happen. What happened to the reduction and control in prices that the Arab nations promised weeks ago?

    Remember one thing, not only is the price of petrol going up but at the same time airlines are forced to raise their prices, trucking companies are forced to raise their prices which effectsprices on everything that is shipped. Things like food, clothing, building supplies medical supplies etc.

    Who pays in the end? We do!

    We can make a difference. If they don't get the message after one day, we will do it again and again.

    Forward this email to everyone you know. Mark your calendars and make September 22nd the day that the citizens of Australia say "enough is enough".
    A worthy cause, but (please don't inpterpret this as negative) there will always be those who MUST buy fuel for occupational reasons, regardless of social agenda.

    I was talking to a (fuel delivery) trucky a few months back just after the last big spike in petrol prices, and he pointed out that these prices are having a huge impact on the profits of the transport industry, most notably owner drivers.

    At that time, they (a group of truckies, not sure of union affiliation though?) were considering striking and blockading entry and exit points on major Sydney roads, and it was somehow calculated that basic services would diminish if not cease completely within approx. 72 hours.

    I'm sure that this type of action would speak loudest of all. Oh, and just for the record, I'll not be buying fuel come 22nd September.
    Chris.

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    it's the g'ment tax on fuel that has gone through the roof though not so much the price of fuel

    fuel prices have only gone up 100% since 1980 where as most other things have gone up a lot more

    pricing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Received this twice today. Can't vouch for figures but could be a good idea

    Subject: Action on fuel prices


    It has been calculated that if everyone in Australia did not purchase a drop of petrol for one day, all on the same day, the oil companies would choke on their own stockpiles.

    At the same time it would hit the entire industry with a net loss over 4.6 billion dollars, which affects the bottom lines of the oil companies.

    To remind those above that the real power lies below, Thursday September 22nd 2005 has been formally declared "stick it up their behind " day. The people of this nation should not buy a single drop of petrol that day.
    this didn't work the last few times it was tried - in the USA obviously, 4.6 billion dollars is a lot more than a day's sales of petrol in Oz! "it has been calculated..." - by whom? and what does "choke on their stockpiles" mean? nice idea, but the logic isn't there
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    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    it's the g'ment tax on fuel that has gone through the roof though not so much the price of fuel

    fuel prices have only gone up 100% since 1980 where as most other things have gone up a lot more

    pricing

    You are right- I can remember back in 80s or maybe late 70s that milk and number of other items were more per litre than petrol.
    You link is quite explanatory.
    I read on another Forum that tax/excise in Canada was so much a litre and did not vary if prices went up or down.
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    You are right- I can remember back in 80s or maybe late 70s that milk and number of other items were more per litre than petrol.
    You link is quite explanatory.
    I read on another Forum that tax/excise in Canada was so much a litre and did not vary if prices went up or down.

    i have been stating for a long time that fuel is one of the cheapest comodities we have, the reason most are up in arms about it is because we use so much of it and the g'ment taxes it to the hilt

    wouldn't be so bad if the taxes were used to put back into somethign useful like upgrading the roads or even health and education or even public transport
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    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    Quote Originally Posted by pugrambo
    it's the g'ment tax on fuel that has gone through the roof though not so much the price of fuel

    fuel prices have only gone up 100% since 1980 where as most other things have gone up a lot more

    pricing
    http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ices_0116.html
    what about our tax on fuel compared to somewhere like the UK... it's not too bad on Australia.
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    Wow, I hope your ready for the Ken assault, 'rambo!

    Quoting from the website of the devil will not go down well.

    Since excise was removed from petrol, taxes will now gradually fall as a component of petrol prices though. Excise is fixed to 38.7cpl I think (actual figure does'nt matter so much), and the rest is GST. Since its politically unviable to increase the level of excise, as inflation rises, the overall value of the excise will fall.

    Even so, the graph does show pterol prices have risen recently, but as I've been saying for ages arund here, "they aint what they used to be"! As Shell's graph clearly shows.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slick
    http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?...ices_0116.html
    what about our tax on fuel compared to somewhere like the UK... it's not too bad on Australia.
    Good point, dont the poms pay something like 3 pound a litre or something ??

    On a side note, Curse peugeot for making s16 and gti6 running on premium, i paid 1.48 for vortex 98 this evening...

    oh well, i have got to get to work i guess.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle
    Good point, dont the poms pay something like 3 pound a litre or something ??

    On a side note, Curse peugeot for making s16 and gti6 running on premium, i paid 1.48 for vortex 98 this evening...

    oh well, i have got to get to work i guess.....
    Quite the opposite, I thank Peugeot for making my gti6 run on premium. Think about this, if it was tuned for lower octane fuel, it would make less power. The 98 RON stuff is also supposedly better for the environment. But the biggest plus is due to the extra fuel economy gained by using the higher octane fuel. I know quite a few people who run their cars on 98 RON even though they can run on std unleaded because their trip computers show a definite increase in fuel economy with 98 RON which offsets the 10 cents more per litre that it costs. Now if this is so, then the fact that 98 RON cost 10 cents more when std unleaded was 100 cpl, and it's still 10 cents more now when std unleaded costs 138 cpl. Therefore, as long as this 10 cents gap remains, the higher the price std unleaded goes, the less the % increase of 98 RON over std unleaded.

    Though, how long it remains as a 10 cents gap over std unleaded remains to be seen....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle
    On a side note, Curse peugeot for making s16 and gti6 running on premium, i paid 1.48 for vortex 98 this evening...
    I paid 1.49.9 for BP Ultimate today I will have to get my work to pay me more than the 0.60 c/km that they pay me at the moment.
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    Default Think of the ones who suffer.

    Its o.k. for those that have plenty of disposable income or run a company car, but think of some of the volunteers and carers who help to keep our society together.

    Many carers are employed on very small wages through agencies who charge much more than they pay for the carers to attend to disabled clients and those that need assistance in the community.

    Most of these clients cannot afford to pay for full time care so they ask for the carers for the most critical hours of the day - dressing, a meal time, bath time, so the carer may have to drive from one side of Melbourne to the other for an hour of work here and an hour of work there.

    They need their cars and the high fuel prices are cutting heavily into their meagre wages and to take public transport often means changing buses etc 4 of five times.

    I know this because I volunteer to walk a friend each day and his carers tell me how this fuel rise is making their lives so difficult. No doubt there are other volunteers who use their cars to help others and we got nothing from government except a paper certificate a few years ago, oh and a cup of tea.

    Its pretty easy to sit in ivory towers and tell others its futile to protest, after all to most of you the increase doesn't really hurt, there's plenty more money in the pocket and after all fuel is cheaper than XYZ seasonally adjusted for its lint factor!!

    There are people really hurting out there. perhaps more taxation is the answer to underpin the volunteer social fabric of our society, and a little bit of restraint from our almighty oil companies who keep spending millions spin doctoring their activities without any accountability check on the process).

    I have little time for profiteers.
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 8th September 2005 at 01:27 AM. Reason: minor edit

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    Quote Originally Posted by gti138
    I paid 1.49.9 for BP Ultimate today I will have to get my work to pay me more than the 0.60 c/km that they pay me at the moment.
    Want to catch up for that beer this Friday after work? Beer, at >$10/litre, is certainly more expensive than fuel, but luckily I get exceptional mileage from a couple of pints!
    Take the long way home....

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    Quote Originally Posted by U Turn
    Want to catch up for that beer this Friday after work? Beer, at >$10/litre, is certainly more expensive than fuel, but luckily I get exceptional mileage from a couple of pints!
    Sounds good - give me a buzz and we'll arrange a time & place.
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    The problem with protesting by not buying fuel is that our cars aren't the only things that use oil products. Oil is used for pretty much everything, so, regardless of how much you use there will always be demand for it from other sources. Also, a dip in Australia's oil consumption won't make a huge difference in the global market. The big users are the USA & China. If their consumption dropped for a period of time, that would have a huge affect on petrol prices.

    As for the excise, it is fixed (as previously mentioned) at $0.387 p/l. The thing is that the GST charged also covers this amount. So you're effectively paying a tax on a tax!!! That's a rort!!!

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    The high price of petrol is obviously biting people very hard.

    Whilst I think our petrol prices (on a world level) are still semi-reasonable, the almost 'overnight' (six months) jump by close to 50% in pump price has obviously hurt alot of people, and it's hurting those who can least afford it.

    The upper class (who can most afford the higher petrol prices) generally live in the more established suburbs which are inner city. Their geographical location dictates they usually travel less than 50k a day for work or have access to established public transport (in Melbourne atleast).

    The middle/lower class generally live in the newer suburbs and travel up to 100k+ a day for work...the less said about public transport to some outer suburbs the better...

    The problem is that these people can't simply 'curb their spending' on petrol. It's not a 'luxury' that can be done without. It's an essential and statutory requirment for people that need a car to travel to work and earn a living.

    I thought 'essential items' were supposed to be GST exempt

    Through all the ranting over fuel prices, it must be remembered that Australians have a lifestlye that is generally very good. To maintain that lifestyle, a certain amount of taxation revenue is required. If the government cut the excise on petrol, they'd just have to get it from somewhere else...That 'somewhere else' could hurt even more

    FWIW, I think the Governement will look at making a tax adjustment at the end of the financial year when it becomes clear how much the increased GST revenue from the higher fuel prices has affected the surplus, until then we just have to wear it.

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    I'm in Adelaide at the moment and am dreading the cost of petrol for the drive back to Wodonga. The 505 isn't the most economical car I've owned. It might be cheaper to sell the house and move the family over here to live! It's currentl 139.9c/l here for ulp.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle
    Good point, dont the poms pay something like 3 pound a litre or something ??

    On a side note, Curse peugeot for making s16 and gti6 running on premium, i paid 1.48 for vortex 98 this evening...

    oh well, i have got to get to work i guess.....
    Don't worry, 91 is being phased out, shortly 95 will be the base grade and your car will run on this. I don't know whether it will cost the same as 91 though!
    United here in Victoria has 94 octane ethanol fuel for 5 cents cheaper than 91. It also has the advantage of reducing consumption of oil by 10%, although I've heard it said that production of ethanol uses a lot of oil based energy.
    We need higher fuel prices to curb demand which is getting out of hand .
    Car manufacturers and buyers have been living in a fools paradise recently with 6 litre V8s and ever larger 4Wds.
    Better to have higher prices now than much higher prices or even lack of supply later on coupled with a breakdown of the economic system and our society.
    Graham

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    GST revenue is collected on behalf of the states, I doubt they will be making any changes to that.

    I'm not sure why everyone is blaming the government. They are taking as much as they always have , or slightly more since the GST is 10%.

    International factors are to blame here, and yes, the oil companies are doing nicely out of it. It does not mean its all someones 'fault'.

    This will not last into the long term, oil prices have dropped substantially already. And its become clear that in the hysteria after Katrina, the US government released more of its strategic reserve than was lost to the flood. So petrol prices are already falling overseas (If you believe Alan Kohler on ABC - I have'nt checked into it myself).

    We are doing very well since our coal, steel etc has boomed in price recently. You don't see the Chinese and the Japanese getting together and saying "Lets stop buying commodities from those greedy Australian companies".

    Maybe they should? Maybe we should. But I think there is a very good reason why you DO NOT see it happening

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    You mean beside being habitual enemies and anything Japanese is like dog shit in China.

    Me thinks you'll find that individually thay have so much muscle they set they're own prices, when shopping in Australia.

    ed ge

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    Default Well said Ed ge!

    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    You mean beside being habitual enemies and anything Japanese is like dog shit in China.

    Me thinks you'll find that individually thay have so much muscle they set they're own prices, when shopping in Australia.

    ed ge
    But I also have faith that long suffering consumers will unite in changing their buying habits, as I have, my dollar goes where I think it should, not where their spin wants me to spend it.

    Can anyone show me any figures that indicate that any overseas crude was bought for refining into fuel in Australia (in this current period), or that we are not profiteering by selling our own crude/refined petroleum products at higher prices overseas on the whim of a overseas media hype and panic?
    Sure its good business and "economically sound" but is it socially responsible in the long run. (no 220 page essays Tim )

    Interesting to read that a 1 cent drop in excise would knock $380 million off the budget and that if indexation had not been removed we would be paying 6.5 cents a litre extra.

    At last some figures that can be used to figure out what the oil companies took out of motorists pockets when shell jacked up its optimax by 2 cents a few months back and the other oil companies fell in line - no market resistance here, so $760 million dollars a fiscal year ripped from motorists and not one murmur (until it was noticed and commented on here on Aussie Frogs I think I estimated 80 million!!) of course most 98 fuels were bought by people who would not even notice the difference or so the companies throught!

    But there is more, don't forget the growing number of users whose modern cars have to use premium fuels and they have also crept up to add another $760 million to the coffers, no wonder they don't publish those base figures or detailed breakdown of the actaul production cost in Australia.

    Enough I don't want to hijack the thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego
    But I also have faith that long suffering consumers will unite in changing their buying habits, as I have, my dollar goes where I think it should, not where their spin wants me to spend it.

    Can anyone show me any figures that indicate that any overseas crude was bought for refining into fuel in Australia (in this current period), or that we are not profiteering by selling our own crude/refined petroleum products at higher prices overseas on the whim of a overseas media hype and panic?
    Sure its good business and "economically sound" but is it socially responsible in the long run. (no 220 page essays Tim )

    Interesting to read that a 1 cent drop in excise would knock $380 million off the budget and that if indexation had not been removed we would be paying 6.5 cents a litre extra.

    At last some figures that can be used to figure out what the oil companies took out of motorists pockets when shell jacked up its optimax by 2 cents a few months back and the other oil companies fell in line - no market resistance here, so $760 million dollars a fiscal year ripped from motorists and not one murmur (until it was noticed and commented on here on Aussie Frogs I think I estimated 80 million!!) of course most 98 fuels were bought by people who would not even notice the difference or so the companies throught!

    But there is more, don't forget the growing number of users whose modern cars have to use premium fuels and they have also crept up to add another $760 million to the coffers, no wonder they don't publish those base figures or detailed breakdown of the actaul production cost in Australia.

    Enough I don't want to hijack the thread

    I think we are down to being 40% self sufficient in oil.
    We even import LPG in addition to producing Butane rich (and low octane) LPG because of the demand for propane which is used in Optimax among other things.
    Graham

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    Quote Originally Posted by GRAHAM WALLIS
    I think we are down to being 40% self sufficient in oil.
    We even import LPG in addition to producing Butane rich (and low octane) LPG because of the demand for propane which is used in Optimax among other things.
    Graham

    We have great system in WA. All petrol is to a special formula only made by BP Kwinana. It is illegal in WA to use any other formula. This was made law by previous Liberal Govt on basis that it was the best formula for the environment. If WA runs out of we cannot imports even from Eastern States.
    I believe there is one other refinery in world that produces to this formula.
    BP refinery in Vancouver. Must have had same marketing man!
    Before this which is now possibly nine years ago independents were bringing in petrol from Singapore and selling 3-6c a litre below majors.
    Last edited by Westair; 8th September 2005 at 04:49 PM. Reason: Left out Kwinana
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    Today I filled up 20Ltrs at 150.9c, I just had to, it was running lowwww on petrol

    Rewind to January 2000, first fill up at 73ish

    At this rate, don't be surprised that in 2015 we'd be buying petrol in 2L containers just like fruit juice!

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