The only good thing about high fuel $$$.
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Mi16 Man's Avatar
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    Icon6 The only good thing about high fuel $$$.

    Gets those tossers in "city 4WD's" off the road!! If I get T-Boned by a 4WD, what height is my head at in relation to a bull-bar on most 4WD's???

    At the end of the day, what is wrong with a MPV?

    I hope the price you get for selling your vehicle is worth not more than a box of Weet-Bix...............

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  2. #2
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    we may also get some pollution levels down and stop some of the rat bags in the roads

    the bad thing is the cost of living goes up
    3 x '78 604 SL

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    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  3. #3
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    Yeah, i have a passionate dislike towards these UAVs.
    Is the tax regime still up the creek re these UAVs? Felt like writing to John Conomos about it and the Landbruisers they sell but i whimped it as i'm working at Toyota.

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts U Turn's Avatar
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    100% with you there Mi16 man. The worst offenders are the mums who only use their 4wds for dropping the kiddies at school and doing the shopping. I have nothing against 4wd owners who actually use their 4wd for off-road work. Just like I have no problem with a F3000 (racecar) owner who uses his racecar on the track. I would however have a problem if there was no law preventing these guys using their specialised vehicles on our daily roads, and having to put up with the noise pollution, emissions, carbon fibre bits that break off on speed humps and litter the road etc etc. So why should people who use 4wd's occasionally for a specialised use, be allowed to drive it daily everywhere and anywhere on our roads with the associated impacts on pedestrian safety, as well as other drivers, emissions etc. Racing a specialised racecar on the track is a privilege those who can afford it pay for, and so should 4wd owners for their specialised use of going off-road.

    I don't agree on extreme measures of not allowing 4wds on the road etc. But somehow force or persuade, at least the majority of them to use them mainly for off-road use and have normal cars for daily use.

    I've no problem against the 'light 4wd's' such as rav4, pathfinder etc that are quite economical, don't weight 2.5 tonnes etc. They're an acceptable compromise. Just like our hot hatches, sportscars etc are an acceptable compromise but an F3000 is overkill.

    The sick trend I'm starting to see now are the '4wd tank bullies'. Otherwise what look to be mild mannered Clark kents and Miss daisys, suddenly turn into violent threatening bullies who pretend to swerve their 4wds onto the object of their dislike to try and scare them. I know it's still only a few that resort to this, but it seems like its increasing. And I know I haven't seen any actually swerve into a car, but "I don't care if you don't actually shoot the gun; don't bloody point it at anyone either!".

    It was a bit of a rant, but I just don't see why those that want to go off-roading several times a year or tow a caravan or boat a couple times a year, should be able to use that vehicle unlimited daily and not be forced to have and utilise a second car when not using their specialised uncompromising vehicle for that specialised use. The whole thing about needing to carry 8 kids and having high visibility doesn't sit well with me either when other options are available that provide the same space, visibility etc that a 4wd does.
    Take the long way home....

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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Compelled and enforced by law along with delivery vans, light trucks and anything capable of oscuring sight from a sedan car, to inhabit the outside lane only, 50% of speed camera altered to effect this change, mail to all politicians tomorrow.

    ed ge

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    1000+ Posts Fordman's Avatar
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    Let's not worry too much about what other people choose to drive for whatever reasons, eh?

    I suppose you could say that those who choose to drive small, light, economical cars, for the selfish reason of saving money on fuel, are endangering themselves by driving on the same roads as trucks, buses, 4WD's and anything bigger than their own choice of car?

    As long as the law allows double-bottom semi-trailers to drive the streets of Perth, I certainly don't have a problem with any of the above. Make allowances for the vehicles around you, the same as if you were riding a bicycle or motorbike amongst the average sized cars, and you'll find it's not all bad.

    Methinks a few chips on the shoulders around here, but everyone to their own.

    Cheers.

  7. #7
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    When I see a big 4WD on the road I repeat the first couple of lines of a well known prayer.
    "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    well said u-turn...
    fordman...what u said makes some sense 2...but if they started selling boats with wheels...does it mean we d have to cope with these 2....Trucks and buses are there 2 get a specific job done.....there is literally nothing a typical car can not do that a 4x4 can (besides the obvious...ie extreme 4x4 country)(esp. a citroen)....these owners need to be taxed out of existance....

    On another subject...I m confused.....I m driving down a hwy at 100km/h which then has a speed change to 60km/h because of a school zone....So how is it that 60km/h is OK in this instance,....yet on many other similar roads...60km/h is 2 fast and one can be fined for.....Go figure...had 2 get that of my chest....



    cheers


    dino

  9. #9
    twm
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    Fellow Frogger! twm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 911s
    When I see a big 4WD on the road I repeat the first couple of lines of a well known prayer.
    "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do"
    I am sorry but I do know what I am doing, some people are really ignorant


    Terry
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  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    you want find someone much more 'anti' [email protected] tank than me ...

    There is a lot of poeple out there with 1kid that use the bloody [email protected] tank only for 'residentual duties' (there's 3 of them right here in this small building I work in ... all single females ). The dumb tart my sister used to work for had a massive brand new [email protected] tank with all the gear (including all the relevant offroad stuff, eg: DVD players, etc....). The husband was looking for a new family car ... "Isn't that the 4wd" Her response "No that's just my around town car, we need a family car too"

    Yes the bloody great wank tank with side steps, roo bar, winch, dvd player(s), reverse sensors... just about every gagdet you can think of under the sun is just the "around town" car

    The biggest problem is take this example, you have struggler (much like most of us probably) they go on holidays in the 4wd, possibly tow a boat too... Now a family wagon may not be capable of towing there old caravan, or old boat ... So they end up with a [email protected] tank as there only car. Even if they go holidaying only 3or4 times a year, they simply can't afford a second car......... What option do they have Not go away So you end up with another [email protected] tank driven around suburbia for 99.5% of it's work.

    Who are we to tell them they aren't allowed to drive there [email protected] tank in town. Do you expect them to sell the caravan/boat, possibly change there lifestyle

    There's two side to everything, and this one has no easy answer. The people that drive [email protected] tanks as status symbols will not be affected to any extend by high priced petrol, yet the strugglers that can barely afford to run the one car will.

    I don't see high priced petrol slowing [email protected] tank sales to yupie "look at me" types

    seeya,
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  11. #11
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    hmmmm....although.....I don t own a trailer of any kind.....so when I do need one I RENT one out....easy.....Surely, if one needed a 4x4 for towing purposes it would be cheaper to rent......
    Fact is.....for most owners its a STATUS thing...nothing else....Jones vs Smiths...mine is BIGGER than yours (and I m not talking cars either)...blah blah blah......lets face it...most of the population is thick....no wonder johnny and georgy are in power....



    cheers


    dino

    ps....don t forget the fact that most aussie coms and falcs have "tow pack" option....many cars can be "modded" for towing if thats required for more regular use (but hey,...that just not yuppie)....
    interesting how the camry s not available as a wagon any more....and why would it need to be...when it seems just as easy for them to sell you a landcruiser....
    Last edited by dino; 31st August 2005 at 11:51 AM.

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    hmmmm....although.....I don t own a trailer of any kind.....so when I do need one I RENT one out....easy.....Surely, if one needed a 4x4 for towing purposes it would be cheaper to rent......
    Fact is.....for most owners its a STATUS thing...nothing else....Jones vs Smiths...mine is BIGGER than yours (and I m not talking cars either)...blah blah blah......lets face it...most of the population is thick....no wonder johnny and georgy are in power....



    cheers


    dino
    It's not that easy... I have the same problem to a certain extent, who needs to drive a CX to work and back everyday returning at best 24mpg ... I can't afford to run another smaller car, selling my existing car to buy a smaller one is stupid. I then can't tow the caravan/trailer/etc....

    Say they go away 4 times a year for 2weeks. Have you priced renting a 4wd It's simply not affordable. I seriously doubt you could hire a 4wd with a towbar fitted. You will probably find a clause in the contract that states "not to be used offroad" too That's useful, a [email protected] tank you can't tow or go offroad with.

    Possibly they sell the boat/caravan. You might get $2500bux for a big old caravan... Hmm, that'll pay for 2weeks in a Motel. ... Now how do we go on holidays in the future.

    Until 4wds are viewed by society as stupid bloody [email protected] tanks, the brainless masses will buy them just to have one "bigger" than there neighbours. They'll dissapear in time, just like the bloody great american barges of the '60s did.

    Only that won't dissapear completely as people that actually need and use the things will continue to buy them... I'm sure no-one has an issue with [email protected] tanks when there actually used for 4wding/towing.


    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    Default [email protected] tanks

    Anyone travelling over the gateway bridge (QLD) today will understand this!!

    Sitting in the motionless traffic trying to get onto the bridge I find my personal space being invaded by a [email protected] tank, with proximity detectors.

    I know my Pug is silver and the tarmac is blacky grey but hey, I dont quite think that gives me the stealth capability of being totally invisable to any other road user.

    Yes, I was nearly chopped into the armco by the tank driver!!

    Traffic at a hault, I first notice the detectors on the rear bumper and puzzled at there working decide to test them out!!!!

    Situated on a slight incline I proceeded to slowly move forward and get as close as possible to try and set off her detector alarm!

    It worked, the driver freaked out, not even realising she had pocket rocket tucked in behind her, there was complete panic in the tanks cockpit.

    The big frissy headed pilot then puts her head out the window and proceeds to say 'move back away from my new car'!!!

    'Its a tank, not a car' I replyed....................

  14. #14
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    I am sorry but I do know what I am doing, some people are really ignorant


    Terry.....you are right from a certain perspective.....people are ignorant.
    Drive a jeep cherokee and then an 89 Rangie and you ll know what I mean....The Range Rover is a VERY competant vehicle...not just as a 4x4....It actually handles reasonablly well (considering size and type of vehicle)...ie its quite "roadworthy" and stable at even higher cruising speeds....There is a reason for it being almost iconic.....You just can not give the same credit to old cruisers and patrols (mavericks), jeeps etc etc......Generally they are unstable piles of junk that should never be driven by general public at speeds of 100km/h plus.....
    I d sum up by saying.....vehicles designed primarily for the "american" buyer will more often than not "fail"(day to day driving test) from an enthusisist/ driver point of view/perspective.....
    Besides....ever ask yourself why used 4x4 depriciate so much and are hard 2 sell (except to those who know better)......Well.....mr. and mrs JONES aren t going to exactly be able to compete against a new X5 if they are looking at a 90 Maverick...are they.....one would at least need a LEXUS or an Ml....maybe an F250 or a....


    cheers


    dino

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Shane, point taken re: towbars on rentals.......

    cheers

    dino



    So....how many of us go away for a couple of weeks a year (evry year).., four times.....???? And last time I heard, pulling a caravan behind an ML or X5 just isnt latte......Has nebody actually seen this (ie X5 or Ml towing anything)...please post a pic...I d like 2 c that....

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    Shane, point taken re: towbars on rentals.......

    cheers

    dino



    So....how many of us go away for a couple of weeks a year (evry year).., four times.....???? And last time I heard, pulling a caravan behind an ML or X5 just isnt latte......Has nebody actually seen this (ie X5 or Ml towing anything)...please post a pic...I d like 2 c that....


    Nah, X5 etc....

    Purely for show, I mean the 3-10year old [email protected] tanks with owners that struggle to run them... Completely different crowd. If you can afford a new [email protected] tank or X5, something like fuel economy isn't an issue.

    Yuppies living in the suburbs are very different to the medium/low income [email protected] tank owners. There all out there, that's why there is so many of them in the traffic.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! chris's Avatar
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    Even with the ever-rising price of petrol, big 4WDs still sell for more than an equivalent car. Anyone in the situation Shane describes could flog the tank and get a decent sized wagon or (and it pains me to say it) a 6cyl Holden that would do exactly the same job, use less fuel and be less of a target for dirty looks in busy traffic.

    Chris
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  18. #18
    Member Malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino
    Has nebody actually seen this (ie X5 or Ml towing anything)...please post a pic...I d like 2 c that....
    http://www.geocities.com/malcolm_bla...avana_2004.wmv

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    The inherent blind spots in 4WD is what gives me the jeebies or maybe it's the driver who dont look out for cars next to them when they change lanes or when on the onramp moving into the freeway. I have nearly been cleaned up a few times by these tanks because they either cannnot se my car or dont bother becaue they know thet their tank will survive the collision easily. Some also try to inch as close as they can to you at traffic lights so that they are almost on top of you. If you move up they do the bloody same..totaally p****s me off
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  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! enthused!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris
    Even with the ever-rising price of petrol, big 4WDs still sell for more than an equivalent car.
    have to disagree with you there chris:

    The current tax concessions on 4wd vehicles (intended to help out our farmers who might actually NEED a 4wd) mean that often a big 4wd is actually cheaper than the equivalent sedan.

    take the bmw x-5 and bmw 5 series. They are (basically) equal in size, capacity and equipment levels..

    5 series SEDAN : $89,000 - $151,000
    X-5 4wd wank tank - $79,900 - $155,000

    rediculous!
    1992 mi16 1.9 litre - it's a love hate realtionship.

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    Fellow Frogger! 206 RC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enthused!
    have to disagree with you there chris:

    The current tax concessions on 4wd vehicles (intended to help out our farmers who might actually NEED a 4wd) mean that often a big 4wd is actually cheaper than the equivalent sedan.

    take the bmw x-5 and bmw 5 series. They are (basically) equal in size, capacity and equipment levels..

    5 series SEDAN : $89,000 - $151,000
    X-5 4wd wank tank - $79,900 - $155,000

    rediculous!
    I am confused... How are you disagreeing with chris?
    Clint

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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    malcolm......

    Coincidentally, I had seen this clip a few days ago....very funny....
    Looks like n R5??? It was an admirable attempt....




    cheers


    dino

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris
    Even with the ever-rising price of petrol, big 4WDs still sell for more than an equivalent car. Anyone in the situation Shane describes could flog the tank and get a decent sized wagon or (and it pains me to say it) a 6cyl Holden that would do exactly the same job, use less fuel and be less of a target for dirty looks in busy traffic.

    Chris
    Actually your right, new falcons have a quite high towing capacity. How many people out there with aging [email protected] tanks can afford a new fowlcan

    Also, do your really think a modern turbo diesel [email protected] tank consumes as much fossil fuel as a V8/V6 fowlcan (especially when towing).

    I'm not 'pro' [email protected] tank at all (I hate the bloody things clogging our roads), however like everything they do have there place. The problem is the majority of us just see them in supermarket and school carparks They were never originally designed to be a residentual run-about.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! chris's Avatar
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    New? Why are we suddenly talking about new cars? If you can afford a new 4WD you're not a "struggler".

    The old-generation 4WDs are not particularly economical, and a lot of them are petrols rather than diesels (why you would buy a petrol over an equivalent diesel is beyond me, but people do).

    A 6 cylinder car driven with a gentle foot shouldn't be that bad on petrol. In fact most modern 4 cylinders will cope with the occasional heavy load, at the expense of horrendous fuel economy.

    Chris
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  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris
    New? Why are we suddenly talking about new cars? If you can afford a new 4WD you're not a "struggler".

    The old-generation 4WDs are not particularly economical, and a lot of them are petrols rather than diesels (why you would buy a petrol over an equivalent diesel is beyond me, but people do).

    A 6 cylinder car driven with a gentle foot shouldn't be that bad on petrol. In fact most modern 4 cylinders will cope with the occasional heavy load, at the expense of horrendous fuel economy.

    Chris
    Show me a 4/6cylinder car that can tow legally more than 1.5ton, and has a decent ball weight ...

    Lets take the V6 Xantia, it can tow 1200kgs, and have a 75kg ball weight... Sure I don't doubt it could easily tow upto it's gross weight (about 1.5tons).

    Legally it can only tow 750kgs if you use the 10% nose weight rule for stability.

    Why do you think so many retirees by shiny new [email protected] tanks ... They are the only thing that can legally tow there shiny new caravans

    There simply is no way to force [email protected] tanks off the road, they are needed and required by people. All we need to do is make them have the marketing appeal of herpes, and all the "look at me" types out there will stop buying them in droves. It's the publics mentality that needs to change, not the rules/laws about what vehicles people can drive. Certainly I can only see higher fuel bills only affecting those who can afford it the least. NOT poeple that can afford brand new [email protected] tanks.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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