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  1. #1
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Default Vicroads, Unregistered trailer

    Hi guys,

    Been doing some research on a few things at vicroads (yet to call them) and I am still unclear on a few points.. Maybe some aussiefrogs would know.

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    If 'one' was to buy an unregistered trailer from a private seller, what is the process of 'getting it home' regarding registration?

    The other question is regarding the classification of a trailer with 3 axles.
    Does anyone know if it makes a difference relating to registration? If it does, could you not (design permitting) remove an axle and carry less weight?

    If a trailer is made before a certain date it is not required to have certain information stamped on the chassis. One of which is 'Load Weight'. To help classify a trailer this is added to the weight of the empty trailer. So if a trailer is made before this date, do you estimate your own 'Load Weight' and be aware that the trailer is registered to that weight, when you go to register it?

    Thanks guys,

    David.
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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The staff memebers at Vicroads are useless morons... The sh!t I went through to try and register a trailer with those d!ckheads

    As your trailer has been previously registered you should be fine if it has the previous rego number on it.

    getting it home, you'll get a different answer from every d!ckhead you speak to at Vicroads. My suggestion is to ring up, get the persons name and details you spoke to and see if you can tow it home. If your pulled over and booked from towing an unregistered trailer, you can then take it to court, site the persons name you talked to at VicRoads and the date/time you enquired ....

    Everytime I've dealt with them I've been glad I didn't have a machine gun, 'cos no doubt you'll be ready to head up there after your fourth visit to register the bloody trailer to be told something different yet again for the 4th time, and given another reason why you can't register it.

    Am I negative towards Vicroads Lets just say the people they have up there are to stupid to even be polititions ...Infact so stupid I'm sure Centerlink got sick of them being to stupid to fill in the required forms to get the dole, so they got them all jobs at Vicroads.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    Hi guys,

    Been doing some research on a few things at vicroads (yet to call them) and I am still unclear on a few points.. Maybe some aussiefrogs would know.

    If 'one' was to buy an unregistered trailer from a private seller, what is the process of 'getting it home' regarding registration?

    The other question is regarding the classification of a trailer with 3 axles.
    Does anyone know if it makes a difference relating to registration? If it does, could you not (design permitting) remove an axle and carry less weight?

    If a trailer is made before a certain date it is not required to have certain information stamped on the chassis. One of which is 'Load Weight'. To help classify a trailer this is added to the weight of the empty trailer. So if a trailer is made before this date, do you estimate your own 'Load Weight' and be aware that the trailer is registered to that weight, when you go to register it?

    Thanks guys,

    David.
    G'day,

    Regarding the 3 axle question:

    Quote Originally Posted by vicroads
    A caravan or light trailer is any caravan or trailer that weighs less than 4.5 tonne gross vehicle mass (GVM). GVM is the weight of the trailer plus the load capacity.
    No reference is made to axle configuration only GVM.

    Regarding the second question:

    Quote Originally Posted by vicroads
    Requirements to register a light trailer

    Trailers manufactured before 1989 must have an identification number stamped into the drawbar. Any identification number format is acceptable.

    Trailers manufactured after 1989 must have a compliance plate displaying the following:

    * manufacturer's name
    * date of manufacture
    * aggregate trailer mass (in kg)
    * vehicle identification number
    * tyre and rim data (ie. rim size, tyre size, load rating and recommended tyre pressure)
    * trailer model (if applicable)
    * the statement "This trailer was manufactured to comply with the applicable Australian Design Standards".


    A roadworthy certificate is not required, but light trailers must be in a roadworthy condition.

    All trailers that weigh over 750kg GVM must be inspected.
    An appointment is required at all offices for an inspection.

    When making an appointment you will be asked for:

    * the vehicle identification number (VIN) of the trailer, or
    * previous registration number of the trailer if it was manufactured before 1989, and
    * the Victorian driver licence number or name of the intended registered operator.

    All caravans and light trailers other than exempt caravans and trailers must be registered to be used on the road.
    I'd imgaine that the inspecting 'useless moron' will assess the trailer and rate its load capability (against a photo board or construction standard sheet etc)

    If you buy an unregistered trailer and tow it home, you run the risk of copping a fine.

    I'd make an appointment with VicRoads and tow the trailer straight there for registration...

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    Maybe an unregistered vehicle permit? I suspect it may be one of those areas where there isn’t really any law. Another more silly suggestion and probably impractical – trailer it home?

    Re the load weight etc, I suppose you could “make it up” ie educated assessment, and so long as it seems reasonable the Vicroads bod should be happy.

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    Hi guys,

    Been doing some research on a few things at vicroads (yet to call them) and I am still unclear on a few points.. Maybe some aussiefrogs would know.

    If 'one' was to buy an unregistered trailer from a private seller, what is the process of 'getting it home' regarding registration?

    The other question is regarding the classification of a trailer with 3 axles.
    Does anyone know if it makes a difference relating to registration? If it does, could you not (design permitting) remove an axle and carry less weight?

    If a trailer is made before a certain date it is not required to have certain information stamped on the chassis. One of which is 'Load Weight'. To help classify a trailer this is added to the weight of the empty trailer. So if a trailer is made before this date, do you estimate your own 'Load Weight' and be aware that the trailer is registered to that weight, when you go to register it?

    Thanks guys,

    David.
    I know what's going on here .... You want to buy that tri-axle caravan chassis on ebay too !!!! IT's MINE !!!!!!

    Make a bloody rippa of a car trailer wouldn't it. I had exactly the same thoughs as you, chop one of it's axles off, chop about a considerable length off it (who needs a 30' long car trailer) and use that metal to make the ramps with

    I think it's already bidded outside beyond what I'd pay. You couldn't put it on anothere trailer to get home due to it's sheer size (30feet), your only option is to take a light board with you and tow it home (I did this with my last trailer).

    I was under the impression you could tow an unregistered trailer directly home, directly to any place to have registration work performed on it, and directly to VicRoads (that was what I was told from the VicRoads on the phone). However if MistaRenault says you'll be booked....................... They are the ones that do the booking so I'd go with his advice. I wouldn't trust any VicRoads worker to know there arse from there elbow A phone call stating you can drive it home isn't exactly a written signed document saying "yes this is legal".

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    Just drive it home without rego its such a trvial petty issue i dont see what the big fuss is about
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    Default Permissable unregistered use.

    It was always permissable to use an unregistered vehicle on Victorian road, BUT only for the purpose of getting it registered. I have the vague recollection there was case law on this issue. Mistarenno may be able to enlighten.

    The onus was on the driver/tower to prove they were heading by the most direct route to a weighbridge/ Roadworthy/Vicroads registration centre - later there was slight change and you had to have a valid certificate of insurance - you would ring up and arrange it per phone.

    May well have changed slightly since and will pay to have things checked properly.

    In a country area a visit to your local Police Traffic Management Unit may yeild some helpful advice on how to get it home for the purpose of re-registration/reworking.

    Otherwise you are left to the removal solution like the US pug guy, but the risk is yours. Hard to crack dumb and say on a trailer of that size and length, "gee I didn't realise it had to be registered sir"

    I suppose if you had all the lights, reflectors, mudflaps, tyres etc in correct order/condition you would minimise your fine.
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 24th August 2005 at 01:56 PM. Reason: minor

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WRCPUG
    Just drive it home without rego its such a trvial petty issue i dont see what the big fuss is about
    I don't consider what $500++++ fine for an unregistered vehicle 'trivial'. Sure I consider the actual towing of it (if it's safe and has working lights) trivial.... But NOT the fine if you get caught.

    Lets be honest here, it would be blantantly obvious you were towing it straight home (after all what use is a bare chassis to anyone ... It's not like your using it for any purpose "other than getting it home"). I'm sure if you were pulled over and explained your case any reasonable police officer would let you continue on your travels without a fine.

    After all how do we get any unregistered trailers/caravan home ???? If it need work prior to registration (eg: brakes fixed) it's not like you can tow it "straight to VicRoads" from the place of purchase...

    My trailer is an old heavy duty caravan chassis with a braked drop axle. It came with all the marine gal and metal to finish it so it would be a complete trailer. I just took a light board down to the other side of Melbourne with me and towed it back to Ballarat. I was under the impression this was legal. Obviously I was wrong. So just how would I have gotten it home then Hire a car trailer and sit it on top of that

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I don't consider what $500++++ fine for an unregistered vehicle 'trivial'....
    Last time I looked it was only $110 or similar for an unregistered trailer...and I cant say I have (or know anyone that has for that matter) booked anyone for that offence.

    But beware, it IS an offence.

    VicRoads should be able to issue a temporary vehicle permit (no mention of motor vehicle...) for the purposes of repair and registration. It is always worth the money to be safe...

    If your luck is anything like murphys then you'll have a crash on the way home and get shafted by everyone from the Police to your insurer...

    Regards,

    Richard V

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    I know what's going on here .... You want to buy that tri-axle caravan chassis on ebay too !!!! IT's MINE !!!!!!

    Make a bloody rippa of a car trailer wouldn't it. I had exactly the same thoughs as you, chop one of it's axles off, chop about a considerable length off it (who needs a 30' long car trailer) and use that metal to make the ramps with

    I think it's already bidded outside beyond what I'd pay. You couldn't put it on anothere trailer to get home due to it's sheer size (30feet), your only option is to take a light board with you and tow it home (I did this with my last trailer).
    Hi Shane,

    As it could well end up on your property (??) with a couple of cars on it (!!), we should talk! ebay, I got no idea what your talking about Shane!

    Maybe we can come to an arrangement if you are interested in it. My thought is just to get my cars transported and maybe use it once in a while after that, but it is rediculously long (9.2 metres)

    Ill PM you.

    Thanks for comments guys, think I will 'try' and get an unregistered vehicle permit, (if it pans out) but I thought it required such info as previous plate, vin/chassis number etc? I forget, ill have to take a look at one of the ones I got for the 16 last time.

    David.
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    I don't consider what $500++++ fine for an unregistered vehicle 'trivial'. Sure I consider the actual towing of it (if it's safe and has working lights) trivial.... But NOT the fine if you get caught.

    Lets be honest here, it would be blantantly obvious you were towing it straight home (after all what use is a bare chassis to anyone ... It's not like your using it for any purpose "other than getting it home"). I'm sure if you were pulled over and explained your case any reasonable police officer would let you continue on your travels without a fine.
    Yeh but its a bit of a fun....bit of bending the rules bit of breaking a petty misdomeanor law.

    Have some excitement be a criminal

    Australia pisses me off to no end lately...its so policed and petty in its system. You need a license for this..you need permission for that....you need to pay $XXXX to do this you cant do this but you can only do this on certain days ect. I hate how petty and stupid some of our laws are...whats wong with common sense and people taking responsibilty for their own actions? Instead the gov makes a buffer for the stupid people and obviously the rest of us suffer with stupid fines.

    I miss Europe so much...they are so laid back in their attitude and rules compared to here.

    Sorry to rant and hijack but the way we are going in 20 years time we wont be able to wipe our ass without some sort of license....and have to pay some more $$$ to the gov for that license.

    But yes see if there is an unregistered vehicle permit...they cost $70 for cars for about 28days however you can only use them from 9-5pm i think?? And your only meant to use them to drive the vehicle to and from the workshop and what not.
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    WRCPUG,


    Indeed, going by the look on his face the VTEC has kicked in! I agree totally with your sentiments, we have all got too serious over the last twenty years and have lost our innocence/sense of humour. That cannot be replaced under the present heightened state of alert. More will be taken. Am I starting to sound like ed ge? Me thinks perchance!

    Boodek and I had a situation a week ago where we towed an unregistered 505 GTi home using a rope behind his work car. Apparently you need a rigid form of towing using a metal contraption between the cars to stop the towed one running up the arse of the towing one. We got halfway home and there were Policemen pulling people up a hundred metres from home. You wouldn't read of it. For the previous ten days you could have been doing doughys in the middle of the road without fear of being caught. Due to quick thinking on our part we got away with it but I wouldn't try it again.

    We got it home, had a beer and reflected upon how lucky we were.

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    Well, the 'so called' 30ft trailer / caravan chassis went for $1001 on ebay.

    Would have made an awesome car trailer, no doubt it probably will, but a tad on the large side. I wouldnt say it was a BAD price, but considering the amount of work required... and IMO too much money to part with, without seeing it.

    I still may buy a tandem trailer this weekend so thanks again for your comments regarding registration of a trailer. Seems like a bit of mis-information out there, as to what the rules actually are, so I am glad its not just me.

    David.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    Well, the 'so called' 30ft trailer / caravan chassis went for $1001 on ebay.

    Would have made an awesome car trailer, no doubt it probably will, but a tad on the large side. I wouldnt say it was a BAD price, but considering the amount of work required... and IMO too much money to part with, without seeing it.

    I still may buy a tandem trailer this weekend so thanks again for your comments regarding registration of a trailer. Seems like a bit of mis-information out there, as to what the rules actually are, so I am glad its not just me.

    David.
    That's a staggering amount of $$$$. I wasn't going to pay more than $350... It would have need an enormous amount of time and quite a few $$$$ spending on it before you had anything even remotely useful.

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    Just to prove not much has changed.... Maybe it's just me Today I rang vicroads.... 20minutes on hold.... "I want to book in a trailer for registration"..... give her the VIN number.....

    "her: This comes up as a repairable writeoff" ...... "Me: Yes that is right, I have the documentation here"..... her: " You need a VASS engineers certificate to re-register that" ... Me: "Its a trailer".... Her: "Yes, on the writeoff register, so you need a VASS engineers certificate" .... Me: " You understand it is a trailer right ?" ..... Her: " It's written off on in QLD, I can't see there system, so dont' know why, but you will needs an engineers certificate to register. Do you understand what this means, it means an insurance company has written it off" .......... ME: "Yes, as I said, I have the documentation. It states flood damage. It's never been near water. I just had a broken lift assist spring in the caravan pop up roof. Insurance companies never repair caravans, they seem to just right htem off. Even for a tiny scratch". Her: "I can't see those details, but you will need an engineer to sign off the repairs.". Me: " THERE HAS BEEN NO REPAIRS>>> IT IS NOT DAMAGED, never has been damaged, probably never will be damaged. it was just heavy to lift the top on as there was a damaged lift spring. What would the engineer check ?". Her: " He would check the damage has been repaired". ME: " THERE IS NO DAMAGE REPAIRED.... IT IS NOT DAMAGED".

    on and on .... around in circles..... Have I mentioned lately how much i hate the useless sacks of shit that work at vicroads

    This is ridiculous, the two trailers I own I built myself and didn't need an engineer to check them ... AAARRRRhhhhhh... Finally I must have "sort of" convinced her so she asks me to wait while she goes and asks someone. Finally she comes back ... " Yes your right, we don't need a VASS engineer to check trailers"..... But just wait a minute... I'm going to check stolen/securities just incase this can't be registered".... You gotta be bloody kidding me ?? Is there anything that pack of assholes won't do to stuff you around ?? Anyway she finally let me "book it in for registration". If just getting something booked in is hard. Imagine dealing with the assholes at the ballarat Vicroads office

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    In a word zealot

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    In a word zealot
    Yes, at least she was nice enough to me while saying "no, can't be done".... I'm guessing new staff following exactly the training process. "must be nice to caller, must check EVERYTHING and refuse everything and anything if possible".
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    Icon5 Special nice treatement for Shane..

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Yes, at least she was nice enough to me while saying "no, can't be done".... I'm guessing new staff following exactly the training process. "must be nice to caller, must check EVERYTHING and refuse everything and anything if possible".
    Just hope their staff isn't reading this or on the day you might get the extended proctologists probe and examination

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kenfuego View Post
    Just hope their staff isn't reading this or on the day you might get the extended proctologists probe and examination

    Ken
    Would serve a couple right if they were. I have registered many, many, trucks for an employer and I always found the staff at VicRoads to be helpful and courteous. Of course, I wasn't acting like a prawn on the phone, but speaking to them in person over a counter at Sunshine, after the obligatory number taking and short wait. I had ample opportunity to see the effects that customers with attitude brought on themselves during my short waits
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Would serve a couple right if they were. I have registered many, many, trucks for an employer and I always found the staff at VicRoads to be helpful and courteous. Of course, I wasn't acting like a prawn on the phone, but speaking to them in person over a counter at Sunshine, after the obligatory number taking and short wait. I had ample opportunity to see the effects that customers with attitude brought on themselves during my short waits
    How long ago Kim?, 20 or is it 40 years ?.

    Vic Roads has changed since the days of the Motor Registration Branch and the desks are no longer staffed by knowledgeable people, with wagging tails willing to assist.

    In many case some youthful women will read the book to you, because she is unable to interpret the regulations herself.Or refer you to their website. In fact a few years ago Vic Roads was referred to, in the motor trade, as the "Pakistani Embassy", I can't imagine why !

    In real terms, customers seem to be an annoyance to Vic Roads, similarly telephone inquiries. Because they get in the way of taking money for licence testing and banking registration fees. And distract the staff from pursuing profitable work.

    The only method of finding the level of service to which you allude, at Vic Roads today, is to entice an Engineer out of their Holy Grail, located well out of the Public Gaze in the back office. And then, if the matter can be dealt with in 5 minutes and you can demonstrate a through knowledge of the regulations you may get some assistance on the other hand you may not.

    This based on my experience of doing engine number changes (upgrades from 1.6L to 1.8L) in 2013 and 2014. And a simple change of engine number last year.

    Vic Roads don't exist to help people, they are there collect money and administer the law.

    Whilst basic courtesy will make life easier, it won't fix a non customer oriented system and miraculously make it work.
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    Somehow all this is reminding me of our tax collectors - euphemistically called Service NSW.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Somehow all this is reminding me of our tax collectors - euphemistically called Service NSW.
    or Medicare or most Goverment utilities

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    As someone who has recently spent a lot of time in both places, let me assure you Medicare is quick, though the queue system isn't fair for the infirm. Service NSW (which collects all kinds of tax) is a nightmare.

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    I have grave concerns about Service NSW. It's exactly the sort of place where grievances are aired with multiple casualties by dint of both its business streams and physical layout.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts Kim Luck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    How long ago Kim?, 20 or is it 40 years ?.

    Vic Roads has changed since the days of the Motor Registration Branch and the desks are no longer staffed by knowledgeable people, with wagging tails willing to assist.

    In many case some youthful women will read the book to you, because she is unable to interpret the regulations herself.Or refer you to their website. In fact a few years ago Vic Roads was referred to, in the motor trade, as the "Pakistani Embassy", I can't imagine why !

    In real terms, customers seem to be an annoyance to Vic Roads, similarly telephone inquiries. Because they get in the way of taking money for licence testing and banking registration fees. And distract the staff from pursuing profitable work.

    The only method of finding the level of service to which you allude, at Vic Roads today, is to entice an Engineer out of their Holy Grail, located well out of the Public Gaze in the back office. And then, if the matter can be dealt with in 5 minutes and you can demonstrate a through knowledge of the regulations you may get some assistance on the other hand you may not.

    This based on my experience of doing engine number changes (upgrades from 1.6L to 1.8L) in 2013 and 2014. And a simple change of engine number last year.

    Vic Roads don't exist to help people, they are there collect money and administer the law.

    Whilst basic courtesy will make life easier, it won't fix a non customer oriented system and miraculously make it work.
    There's a racist overtone in there somewhere, can't put my finger on it......
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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