Safety Camera's
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    XTC
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    Default Safety Cameras

    Some help finding them here.

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    http://members.optusnet.com.au/~spee...d_cameras.html
    http://www.gpsoz.com.au/speed_cameras/
    http://www.gpsriders.net/waypoints.html
    http://www.roadwatch.com.au/speedcameras.asp

    - xTc -

    [edit] The roadwatch one is quite good for searching by post codes.
    Last edited by XTC; 16th August 2005 at 03:22 PM.
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I didnt know there was a camera on Brunton Parade past the MCG - no way was I doing the posted 40kph along there last week.

    Now I get to wait in suspense for the ticket to arrive......
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    I didnt know there was a camera on Brunton Parade past the MCG - no way was I doing the posted 40kph along there last week.

    Now I get to wait in suspense for the ticket to arrive......
    I have to keep an eye on it, my office is around the corner so i pass that road everyday and i never spotted it.
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Am trying to remember if it was dark when i went through - i certainly dont remember any flash, so maybe i might be lucky and they have the threshold set high. Think i was doing about 50... One can dream
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Safety cameras, huh.

    Should that read speed cameras or revenue cameras?

    Safety cameras are what you have around a swimming pool.

    ed ge

    exie non of those sights work worth a dam unfortunately,

    roadwatch refused to accept suburb or postcode
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    Last edited by edgedweller; 16th August 2005 at 05:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Safety cameras, huh.
    Words chosen carefully and deliberately ... as for the other sites, yes only good if you have GPS type gear (useful for a few).

    - xTc -

    [edit] added capture from roadworks site (SYD) worked for me ? Who knows if it's upto date though ??
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Safety Camera's-sydcam.gif  
    Last edited by XTC; 16th August 2005 at 05:51 PM.
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    I note that the SA government will spend $66M on roadworks this financial year. However 36.6M of it is being spent on 20 new red light cameras. We have a lot of crap roads needing attention and they spend the money in this way! Shame,shame,shame. They live for the $ and nothing else.

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    yeah, gotta spend money to make money... i wonder how much money the average speed camera makes a year?

    all the money from speed cameras and stuff is supposed to go back into the roads right... wondering coz there are some pretty shabby roads around. maybe i need to put my foot down abit more?
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Sorry to disturb you but speed camera fines go into general revenue.

    ed ge

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    oh, i was under the impression that speeding fines go back into the roads... hmmm looks like i was misinformed. ah well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Sorry to disturb you but speed camera fines go into general revenue.

    ed ge
    Safety cameras, safety cameras , you obviously miss the spin on that ball...the more we have the safer we'll all be
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Sorry to disturb you but speed camera fines go into general revenue.

    ed ge
    And according to something I read the other day .. in NSW EACH fixed camera makes a profit of over $1 million per MONTH ... I'm sure it said month, this couldn't be correct could it, surely they meant year ??? People couldn't be that stupid ?

    That's alot of $'s for the general coffers.

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    They have spent more than 50% (on red light cameras) of the road budget, in an area which accounts for 1.3% of fatalities.
    Deaths in SA are greater than for the same time last year. So much for speed cameras saving lives.
    As I always say, because Government is not willing to train drivers, they lower speed limits to hopefully keep the most incompetent on the roads alive.
    I also note, especially on Sundays that the older in society seem to be driving 50kph everywhere, frustrating other road users. The odds are that they haven't had a ticket in 20 years, but suddenly, now have, as most people are not mind readers when it comes to working out a 50 from 60kph road - they don't signpost them. So they have decided," bugger you" I will drive 50kph everywhere.

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    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    Sorry to disturb you but speed camera fines go into general revenue.
    No, it seems the money doesn't go into consolidated revenues, either -- at least, not all of it.

    I mean, I can see where they're coming from, and their motivation is surely commendable. But I'm not really happy about an unelected (and unaccountable) body -- namely, Victoria's Transport Accident Commission, a semi-government insurance company -- directing road law enforcement here by stealth in the manner that's suggested by something that I read recently. Nor do I think it's the way the police would prefer to work, any more than I understand why it's necessary to do things this way.

    Call me naive, but I read the papers, and I don't recall the arrangements detailed below ever appearing there. They come from a book called "On Patrol in Gippsland", by David Carey, a (present?) ranking officer in the Gippsland Traffic Operations Group. Maybe he's wrong -- I almost hope so, but it sounds pretty plausible.

    Firstly, to set the scene: the TAC ...
    "... estimated that a fatality costs the community about $900,000, whereas a serious injury, such as an 18-year-old becoming a paraplegic from a vehicle collision, who lives to the age of 50 or 60, will eventually cost millions of dollars."
    Very undesirable, most would agree. So the TAC (and NOT the government, and NOT the police themselves) funded breath testing kits, and booze buses, and speed and red light cameras, but with certain hard-headed, commercial strings attached:
    "New breath testing instruments replaced the old Smith and Wesson instruments in 1994, and this was followed by 30 moving mode radar devices ... Two years later, 60 of the latest Laser radar guns were supplied to the Force, for use in the campaign against speeding motorists ... But the TAC did not supply all this equipment out of the kindness of their heart. They were in the business of insurance and they had done their sums. It was called "cost-benefit ratios". The Victoria Police had to sign an agreement upon receiving the equipment stating that police would undertake to achieve certain goals. For example, with the booze bus program, the Force had to guarantee that one million motorists would be checked at booze bus sites all over the state in twelve months. TAC's experts and financial advisors had calculated that the random breath testing program would lower collisions, thus saving the company in insurance payouts. If every dollar the TAC spent on equipment made six dollars, then the TAC met its objective. In relation to the moving mode and laser radars, the contract specified that each device would be used for at least seven hours per day."
    ... and law enforcement authorities and governments forever afterwards would both be able to put their hands on their hearts, stare unflinchingly into the camera, and say with utter and profound conviction, "No, there are no government revenue targets built into the road safety program."

    ... it's just not directly related to road safety, either, so much as it is to loan repayment schedules ...
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    Two terrible high speed (and I mean high speed) accidents in the last two weeks have left 4 young people dead near here. The police have responded by speed cameras/speed traps on minor roads etc. Might not be totally effective but emergency service workers despair of cutting young drivers out of wrecks. I suppose some people might defend driving at 180/200kmh on public roads but I don't see them working at accident scenes.

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    But that's just the point ... The revenue cameras are placed on major roads, where there is high traffic flows ... Towards the bottom of a gentle slopes with the camera set to book you for doing 3km/h over the limit is achieving sweet FA ... Other than of course seriously p!$$ing the motorists off.

    What's it take to get the cameras moved to a minor ... read "zero income" road for a few days 4 people being maimed / killed ... And just how does this affect your average half p!ssed idiot that going to try and show infront of his friends down every other 'back street' in Australia (other than that one of course ).

    The answer is simple... These types of accident are un-avoidable ... Given the sheer number of cars (and idiots) on the road some of them are going to crash... It's inevitable ... The ones that crash at speeds above the speed limit are a tiny, almost unmeasurable number of the overall deaths. Most accidents hapen at or below the speed limits !!!!! Something like 97% of them if you believe the statistics. So where do the cameras fit into this They make revenue, and appear also create a serious decline in real policing ... How often do you see marked police cars on the road as compared to "pre camera" times.

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    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall
    Two terrible high speed (and I mean high speed) accidents in the last two weeks have left 4 young people dead near here. The police have responded by speed cameras/speed traps on minor roads etc. Might not be totally effective but emergency service workers despair of cutting young drivers out of wrecks. I suppose some people might defend driving at 180/200kmh on public roads but I don't see them working at accident scenes.
    That's certainly tragic, all right. I agree with everything you say except that it "might not be totally effective" -- it's hard to see how many speed cameras or speed traps would have been enough to have made one blind bit of difference beforehand, and clearly none would be enough to bring even one of them back afterwards. Whereas if maybe just some of the cost of that equipment had instead gone into educating one or two of those kids in the risks beforehand, sufficiently to cause them to suggest slowing down, the outcome might have been different.

    I think Shane's right -- the only real deterrent is to get the police out of the bunker and back onto the roads where a visible presence will make the odd idiot -- including me -- think twice. I don't want people to associate MY police force with the idea of someone who's going to jump out from behind a bush and ping them for exceeding the speed limit by 4 km/h -- I want them back as a respected and involved part of the community. The (unfortunately-expensive) corollary being that to achieve such a result, we need more of them ...
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    They make revenue, and appear also create a serious decline in real policing ... How often do you see marked police cars on the road as compared to "pre camera" times.

    There is nothing like the sight of a police car parked on the side of the road or driving along to make you check your speed. Most,not all speed cameras, in Newcastle are so clearly sign posted that you would have to be really distracted not to see them. Natural selection if you get caught! But we have all read or heard about young males under 25-30 speeding and getting killed. But most males live to be oldish drivers who learn that to really enjoy driving you dont need a V8 but a Peugeot

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    Default Speeding and safety

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall
    Two terrible high speed (and I mean high speed) accidents in the last two weeks have left 4 young people dead near here. The police have responded by speed cameras/speed traps on minor roads etc. Might not be totally effective but emergency service workers despair of cutting young drivers out of wrecks. I suppose some people might defend driving at 180/200kmh on public roads but I don't see them working at accident scenes.

    Russell

    As one who has been involved in one way or another with road safety, quite a number of police and professionals have been concerned for some time that the way in which the Speed Camera program has been used in this state has allowed the common perception that they are primarily involved in raising revenue rather than road safety. The reliance on cameras alone and the proliferation and poor siting, prima facie speed zones without other speed warning signs has led to a backlash where drivers speed just to show their disaproval.

    They well known there is less police on the road, the camera can't chase and intercept them, stolen plates, disguises will fool them and anyway only the long suffering mums and dads pay the fines, even though they dispute the readings, whereas those that might lose a licence fight tooth and nail and because of issues with the cameras, they can beat the charge.

    Civil disobediance leads to a contempt for common sense road laws and high risk behaviour especially among young drivers. In recognition of this growing problem police have recently stepped up patrols to intercept blatant offenders and some of the speeds alleged are way beyond prudent behaviour on our roads and do place other motorists at extreme risk of injury or death.

    Perhaps this is a start in rethinking our governments romance with "safety" cameras - after all if you are cynical there is an election next year. More police on our roads and less cameras.!

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    When I feel the 'need for speed' I go to the race track, pay $100 for the day and chew the fat with like minded individuals. Some days are wet, some are dry, but there is no greater satisfaction than doing a 'PB'. I haven't got a speeding ticket for about 5 years now as I regard public roads as purely a method of getting from A-B.
    Somehow we need to make it 'cool' to drive fast only at racetracks, with some sort of motto like ' The coppers could never catch me at Mallala - that's where real men go'

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    I don't know anything about city speed cameras/ driving conditions, what people say about revenue raising is probably true, but in the country there is a problem with young male drivers who do drive at excessive speeds and figure disproportionally in the fatality figures. I think there is a difference between an experienced driver driving genuinely fast in his 407 to a group of kids in a souped up Commodore doing a maximum speed run down a country road at night. But I don't see how the law can distinguish between the two. Our local police don't see themselves as revenue raisers and do their best to show a presence, but nothing seems to stop this constant attrition. Sure most of them survive, but when you live in a small community you see the impact of the road toll up close.

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    Default Absolutely agree with you

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Hall
    I don't know anything about city speed cameras/ driving conditions, what people say about revenue raising is probably true, but in the country there is a problem with young male drivers who do drive at excessive speeds and figure disproportionally in the fatality figures. I think there is a difference between an experienced driver driving genuinely fast in his 407 to a group of kids in a souped up Commodore doing a maximum speed run down a country road at night. But I don't see how the law can distinguish between the two. Our local police don't see themselves as revenue raisers and do their best to show a presence, but nothing seems to stop this constant attrition. Sure most of them survive, but when you live in a small community you see the impact of the road toll up close.
    I absolutely agree with you, on all points. At least if one is intercepted by police you have the opportunity there and then to present any mitigating information or defence. And that police person has discretion to take these factors into account. The present targetting of higher speed offences by police is IMHO to be commended and will save lives.

    Most people feel powerless to raise anything in their defence days after the camera takes its snap and it denies them the principle of natural justice to have this delayed response and on the spot right of reply.

    Ken

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    Fellow Frogger! Ren25's Avatar
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    I don't think anyone here has an issue with speeding being a *bad* thing. 180-200km/h on a public road is clearly insane (cept maybe bits of the nullarbor). What gets on peoples tits is being teated as a common criminal for doing 73 in a 70 zone while some idiot is being a danger to society 200 metres down the road. We have a big problem with driver attitudes in this country, that and training, or lack of it.
    I have a mate who was a cop in country WA, an area of narrow bitumin, ball bearing gravel shoulders, and bloody big trees. As a traffic officer he got sick of scraping young blokes off said trees, so he went to the local Ford dealer, scored a new but non ADR'd car and set up a driver training program at the local airstrip, teaching young drivers to get out of skids and stuff. The whole thing was going a treat, so much so that they got on the 7.30 report. WRONG!!
    Before he knows whats hit him he's on the beat in Northbridge, "constable, accidents are caused by speed & alcohol, not lack of driver training, you are undermining all our good work in reducing the road toll, bad boy" Needless to say, he quit and got a real job.
    The whole thing is that speed & alcohol are the only factors in the road toll equation that can be quantified, you can't measure inexperience or stupidity.
    I sometimes look at people in the street, people who obviously have an IQ somewhere in single figures and think, "my god these people drive, they can't put a coherent thought together, even when they're sober, yet they are using the same bit of road as me." It's scary.
    Until we get some government with the balls to acnowledge that driver training and attitude are the key factors we will just get more speed cameras, and this "speed kills" stuff. Speed kills, sure, but it's exessive speed, combined with a lack of driver ability to get out of a situation when things go a bit pear shaped, not doing 5ks over the limit on a dry, deserted road in the middle of nowhere.
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    How about some pressure on car manufacturers to stop making vehicles that go faster than 130 kph. Debate can and does go on forever without the question of vehicle capability being raised. Can the government leave the little guy alone and take on the big guys who allow and promote the need for speed mentality. This goes double for speed shops and after market hot ups.

    ed ge

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    How about some pressure on car manufacturers to stop making vehicles that go faster than 130 kph. Debate can and does go on forever without the question of vehicle capability being raised. Can the government leave the little guy alone and take on the big guys who allow and promote the need for speed mentality. This goes double for speed shops and after market hot ups.

    ed ge
    Ed
    Ever been in a 100km/h speed limited truck, bobtail ie. no trailer, trying to pass a loaded truck or car/caravan doing 90? You spend a long time out there in head on land, very nerve wracking. Me I'd rather do my 150 for a few seconds and get back on the left hand side where I belong. Dont forget that it's not the speed, it's the sudden stop that hurts. Hit a pole or tree or other unmovable object, don't matter a s**t whether you're doing 130 or 230, you're dead either way. I agree that cars capable of doing 300ks is ridiculous, but hell my old R25 will do 200, and I wouldn't exactly call that a Hot Rod. The old furphy about speed limited cars reducing the road toll is just that, a load of old cobblers, it's the nut behind the wheel. A vast majority of incidents, (lets stop calling them accidents), happen at less than 130. They mostly happen because some idiot was concentrating on something other than driving.
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