Ooops - been overfilling the oil...
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Default Ooops - been overfilling the oil...

    Actually decided to check the handbook for the 406 - it tells me it takes 4.25 litres of oil including the filter.

    I have been just filling it up to full on the dipstick, measured just after engine shut off, like I have been doing for years. It takes 5.3 -5.5 litres to get to this point

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    Seems my measuring method is wrong - should be cold and have stood for a while, conditions that give a reading on the dipstick 6 mm above full.

    So, does this explain the leaking rear main seal, and what other damage have I done??
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  2. #2
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Might be worth just trying a fill up to the recommended level before you start ripping motors out and see if the leak is still a problem.
    If the car's an auto, possibly blowing a seal's as bad as it'll get; if it's a manual, you'd reckon it would have taken the clutch by now if the seal's leaking.


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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    I have several appendages crossed hoping that will stem the leak

    It is a manual, but clutch seems fine so far. Hoping its only got the back of the flywheel wet.....
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    I overfilled the oil on my old Mazda once. I was driving up a hill and the oil pressure blew out the dipstick and oil went all over the engine. There was smoke everywhere, but luckily I was close to a mechanic who emptied out a couple of litres for me for 2 cans of beer.
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    UFO
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    We've probably all heard stories about people doing oil changes at home and literally filling the engine with oil and wondering why it just doesn't go anymore.

    I was in REPCO a couple of weeks ago and a woman of about 25 asked one of the staff if they could show her how to check the oil. I'll give her points for asking, but it is another case of people never reading instructions (whether it be car, computer, VCR, microwave....)
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  6. #6
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    A 'little' off the subject, but had a spectacular oil 'incident' years ago in my 16, sitting in the maccas drive-through waiting bay.

    The engine started running a little rough, seconds later it starts knocking... that nutty smell of burning oil, and the oil light comes on.

    Turn the motor OFF! and took a look under the bonnet.
    LOTS of smoke, as the oil burned on the engine and exhaust.
    It had dumped what its seemed to be 90% of its oil, the level not showing on the dipstick.

    It was caused by an aluminium fuel line becoming un-clipped, and rubbing against the oil filter, causing a nice big tear when it blew.

    Left it there, filled it back up in the morning with a fresh filter, leaving about 3 litres of oil in the car park (rest in the engine bay). Had to drive home very carefully with oil soaked tyres

    Had a further related problem later that went un-noticed, which left a heap of fuel under mine and about 20 other expensive cars owned by management, at my work one night. Now that would have made my life different if they wen't up.

    Those days I was much younger and dumber, I am much less care free these days...

    There was another incident relating to speed and neglected tyres that quickly woke me up to the real forces involved when driving in a car. Thats ANOTHER story.

    In short, these are things I WILL NOT do again, its all a learning process, aslong as no one gets killed or injured in the process.

    Got my fingers crossed for you too Haakon.
    I assume the difference is between warm and cold engine measurements of the oil?
    (What sort of a silly car is full under the dipsticks full mark? )

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    Last edited by vivid; 11th August 2005 at 11:57 PM.
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  7. #7
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Its not that overfull - a mere 6 mm.

    I have been using this method of checking oil as I was taught for 15 years on all my cars and many others, with nary a problem. And even if it is full enough for the crank to be throwing it about, once its running the level would drop below that point I would have thought.

    Oh well, I guess these new fangled motors are a little less tolerant. Its worth a shot before I have the gearbox pulled, but I dont like my chances...
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Less damage than not enough oil.

    gluck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    Less damage than not enough oil.

    gluck!
    Don't know about that. Apparently on the early British Austin 1800's, the level was critical. If the sump was overfilled the oil was whisked into a froth starving the motor of oil. The solution was a revised dipstick with a lower full mark.

    The problem never happened on the early Australian 1800's, this was put down to the Australian owners not being as meticulous with oil levels.

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    We've probably all heard stories about people doing oil changes at home and literally filling the engine with oil and wondering why it just doesn't go anymore.
    Yeah, I know I stuffed up... Not as bad as a story I read in Dirty Wheels (that great editorial Wheels magazine used to have) about a guy that came in with a VL making death rattles. Seemed he had run the engine for 15 minutes with drain plug out to "blow the excess oil out" after draining the oil
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon
    Yeah, I know I stuffed up... Not as bad as a story I read in Dirty Wheels (that great editorial Wheels magazine used to have) about a guy that came in with a VL making death rattles. Seemed he had run the engine for 15 minutes with drain plug out to "blow the excess oil out" after draining the oil
    This is true. It was my daughter with first car.
    She stopped at garage near Armadale (WA) to get fuel and thought she would check oil when she put in petrol . She filled it up until no more would go in through rocker cover. It actually drove home about 35k with smoke pouring out of it. It was Hillman Hunter which was indestructible. We drained about 10 litres out at workshop.
    We asked what did the garage guy say when she had used about 4 bottles of oil and she said he didn't say anything.
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    You may very well blown the rear main seal by over filling the sump.
    The volume of oil escapeing with now low tide oil levels may be less, but eventually a box out, fix may be the go.

    Give everything a good clean and monitor oil use/drip, you might be lucky.

    Westair, I once worked the console at the then BP at Turramurra on the Pacific H/W and observed and individual make repeated trips to the tap with the watering can. on the third trip I thought they were washing down the engine bay and went out to have a look-see.

    This gender unspecified person, had, on their partners instruction, filled the "window washer bottle" to the top. The only problem was, it happened to be the rocker cover cap that was having the water applied to it. One for the lads on Monday to drain and clean.
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  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma
    Give everything a good clean and monitor oil use/drip, you might be lucky.

    :
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  14. #14
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamma
    You may very well blown the rear main seal by over filling the sump.
    The volume of oil escapeing with now low tide oil levels may be less, but eventually a box out, fix may be the go.

    Give everything a good clean and monitor oil use/drip, you might be lucky.

    Westair, I once worked the console at the then BP at Turramurra on the Pacific H/W and observed and individual make repeated trips to the tap with the watering can. on the third trip I thought they were washing down the engine bay and went out to have a look-see.

    This gender unspecified person, had, on their partners instruction, filled the "window washer bottle" to the top. The only problem was, it happened to be the rocker cover cap that was having the water applied to it. One for the lads on Monday to drain and clean.
    So they removed the 710 cap to undertake that task?
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  15. #15
    jgp
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO
    So they removed the 710 cap to undertake that task?
    I've always put in 5 litres of oil in my 406 (2 lt manual) and it is right on the full mark even after checking the level after the car has settled overnight. the level suggested in the book is what i put in on the first change and it was just over min mark after settling. whats the go. cheers.
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    Fellow Frogger! DejaVu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgp
    the level suggested in the book is what i put in on the first change and it was just over min mark after settling. whats the go. cheers.
    maybe they want people to run out of oil...leading to mechanical failure... so more cars come into the workshop... and more money for Peugeot.

    somehow i doubt my theory.
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgp
    I've always put in 5 litres of oil in my 406 (2 lt manual) and it is right on the full mark even after checking the level after the car has settled overnight. the level suggested in the book is what i put in on the first change and it was just over min mark after settling. whats the go. cheers.
    This is good - means I'm not completly losing my marbles...
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

  18. #18
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Simon
    Don't know about that. Apparently on the early British Austin 1800s, the level was critical. If the sump was overfilled the oil was whisked into a froth starving the motor of oil. The solution was a revised dipstick with a lower full mark.

    The problem never happened on the early Australian 1800s, this was put down to the Australian owners not being as meticulous with oil levels.
    Yes, it seems that a lot of poms were in the habit of putting in 'an extra pint for the road' that led to a flurry of rattly bearings and worse.

    My stepson put four litres into his 200B once when I was away... seems there was a lot of smoke, then it rattled. "How come you put in so much?" I asked... "I kept checking and it still wasn't full," came the reply. He's since learned about dipsticks... shame he didn't tell his little brother.

    The Datto engine was slated for rebuilding anyway... the Pug engine little brother never checked in six months certainly hadn't been!

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgp
    I've always put in 5 litres of oil in my 406 (2 lt manual) and it is right on the full mark even after checking the level after the car has settled overnight. the level suggested in the book is what i put in on the first change and it was just over min mark after settling. whats the go. cheers.

    Xantia is the same ... If you fill it to the capacity listed in the manual it's wwwaaaaayyyy low (about 4.2 litres ???). It always takes closer to 5litres ... Which just happens to be the BX's capacity ... Guess what the BX and Xantia share the same motor

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgp
    I've always put in 5 litres of oil in my 406 (2 lt manual) and it is right on the full mark even after checking the level after the car has settled overnight. the level suggested in the book is what i put in on the first change and it was just over min mark after settling. whats the go. cheers.
    We might be getting into the realms of engine model now, people. The 4.25 litre figure sounds to me like the later model EW10J4 2 litre motor, whereas 5 litres sounds just right for the earlier model XU engine. The mighty 306 XT (8v truck motor) used to take exactly 5 litres.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Gamma's Avatar
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    The book says 5.5 Lt for the 505GTI with filter and I only put in 4.7lt.
    I am thinking this figure does not take into account oil in the galleries and wells of the motor.
    I am lucky that all I have to contend with is minor territory marking and no oil burning/leaking, (not bad for 360k km).
    /// 1986 SII 505 GTI
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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts silverexec's Avatar
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    On my 505 GTi (Series 1 mind you), I always manage to get in about 5.5L which then shows up on the dipstick right on the full mark the next morning. Freaked me out the first time I did an oil change, I was shocked at how a little 2.2L motor could take so much oil in it - our XF Falcon with its 4.1L motor only took about 4.5L of oil to fill...

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