Motor mag BFYB results - 2005
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  1. #1
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    Default Motor mag BFYB results - 2005

    This has created interesting discussion in the past

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    Motor magazines Bang For Your Buck results were published today.

    Lap times (Wakefield Park) of particular note;

    Peugeot 206 180 - 1:15.00
    Renault Clio Sport Cup - 1:14.2
    Renault Sport Megane - 1:16.6

    ...and assorted non-French times;

    Ford Focus Zetec - 1:18.6
    VW Golf GTi - 1:14.7
    Mini JCW - 1:14.55

    ...and the fastest on test;

    Subaru WRX STi - 1:10.12

    I won't say who the category winners or the outright winner was for fear of spoiling it, but it was interesting to finally see the 206 180 finally in the same test as a Clio Sport. The Megane comes last in its category though, and theres a picture of Rick Bates giving it the big thumbs down.

    I wonder how well the Golf might have gone if it was priced $5 more. It's competitive RRP placed it in the same category as the 206 and Clio, whereas its direct competition (Megane) was in the $40K-$50K category.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    Peugeot 206 180 - 1:15.00
    Renault Clio Sport Cup - 1:14.2
    but it was interesting to finally see the 206 180 finally in the same test as a Clio Sport.
    Every magazine/web site I have read compares the two and the Clio always comes on top for performance. 65kg lighter helps alot. I don't see this as a suprise at all.

    Good to see the 7 year old chasis holding it's own.

    Must say I am suprised with the Megane and Golf GTi.
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  3. #3
    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Yeah - I meant they were finally in the same BFYB test

    I keep seeing this 1035 kg figure quoted for the ClioSport. Wasn't that for the original Cup? I thought the 182's had blown out to 1080kg odd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    Yeah - I meant they were finally in the same BFYB test

    I keep seeing this 1035 kg figure quoted for the ClioSport. Wasn't that for the original Cup? I thought the 182's had blown out to 1080kg odd.
    Ahh yes I see. I am not sure about the weight... sorry.

    I believe the 206 was the reigning champ. I assume the Clio took it.

    How did the Tiburon go and the Integra go?
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    1000+ Posts brenno's Avatar
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    Yeah the Clio took it. Peugeot finished 4th in category

    Tiburon - 1:16.95
    Integra S - 1.14.7

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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    Yeah the Clio took it. Peugeot finished 4th in category

    Tiburon - 1:16.95
    Integra S - 1.14.7
    4th... wow, I guess considering the Golf was in there... Oh well.. The 206 chasis has done well for seven years. But it is time for the 207.
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    Tiburon - 1:16.95
    NOt bad for a car lumbered with a low revving 2.7 V6 compared to a 160kw turbo machine

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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    but it was interesting to finally see the 206 180 finally in the same test as a Clio Sport
    RSC "Cup", they should have least done a non-cup version as well (even as a side story) and that way we could have seen if the extra package was worth the extra $'s.

    As for the Golf .. well there is no doubt the DSG is faster (every track test in Europe has it ahead), but then it'd be $2300 more and in the next bracket. Another potential side story gone begging !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    This has created interesting discussion in the past

    Motor magazines Bang For Your Buck results were published today.

    Lap times (Wakefield Park) of particular note;

    Peugeot 206 180 - 1:15.00
    Renault Clio Sport Cup - 1:14.2
    Renault Sport Megane - 1:16.6

    ...and assorted non-French times;

    Ford Focus Zetec - 1:18.6
    VW Golf GTi - 1:14.7
    Mini JCW - 1:14.55

    ...and the fastest on test;

    Subaru WRX STi - 1:10.12

    I won't say who the category winners or the outright winner was for fear of spoiling it, but it was interesting to finally see the 206 180 finally in the same test as a Clio Sport. The Megane comes last in its category though, and theres a picture of Rick Bates giving it the big thumbs down.

    I wonder how well the Golf might have gone if it was priced $5 more. It's competitive RRP placed it in the same category as the 206 and Clio, whereas its direct competition (Megane) was in the $40K-$50K category.

    Geez,

    I feel a bit sorry for the Megane as it is always unfairly compared with the Clio.

    When RenaultSport released the Megane 225 they stated that it was to be a step above the Clio on the sophistication scale and would be a luxurious, comfortable high speed cruiser, yet it keeps getting bashed for it's softish chassis when compared to a Clio and other hot hatches...

    I must admit, when I was a passenger for some hot laps at Calder for the F1 Drive Day the Megane was heavily front end biased but it never felt flustered and would simply tighten it's line with an easing of the right foot.

    This bias probably meant that mid corner speeds were down compared to the Clio's (as with the Clio it was more like steering the chassis as opposed to steering the wheels) but the Megane was about a second quicker a lap due to it's extra grunt.

    Considering the good ride quality it has (when compared to most rivals), a 1.16 lap time around Wakefield isn't so bad and is in keeping with the original design objective (rapid GT as opposed to manic hot hatch)

    I suppose it's just that you step from a Clio into a Megane and you expect the same handling with more power and it just doesn't happen...

    On the suspension side of things it is very hard to get a lightish vehicle to turn in urgently and have a throttle steerable chassis AND have a coseting ride. Interestingly, the 06 Megane 225 will feature all the suspension changes from the Trophy Edition (minus super light wheels) and has an 80% increase in rear spring rate ...(20 odd percent increase in front with a slightly smaller front sway bar)

    80 frikin percent... That will certainly increase turn in and chassis adjustability/oversteer I wonder what will happen to the ride though?

    The new Megane also features a revised steering system and replaces the current Rubber column joint for a sliding sleeve arrangement designed to improve road feel...

    Wonder if they could also give it a louder exhaust note so it SOUNDS like you are going fast...
    Last edited by mistareno; 10th August 2005 at 02:34 PM.

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    Considering the good ride quality it has (when compared to most rivals), a 1.16 lap time around Wakefield isn't so bad and is in keeping with the original design objective (rapid GT as opposed to manic hot hatch)
    Well the Golf seems to be able to do it....

    Another potential side story gone begging !!!
    Well.... the manufacturers supply the cars they think have the best chance of a win.

    Interestingly Holden didn't supply a Barina SRI. It may have been able to retain its segment crown yet again (surely a record for BFYB).

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    Well the Golf seems to be able to do it....



    Well.... the manufacturers supply the cars they think have the best chance of a win.

    Interestingly Holden didn't supply a Barina SRI. It may have been able to retain its segment crown yet again (surely a record for BFYB).
    Please dont make this into another Golf is better thread. I can't handle it.

    I will have to buy Motor this lunch time. My interest is piqued.
    Clint

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    Quote Originally Posted by mantra
    Well the Golf seems to be able to do it....
    The Golf's ride is probably better controlled but it is significantly inferior in comfort to the Megane (albeit superior to the Clio in most aspects...)

    The Clio beat the Golf around Wakefield with far less power, but it would be a track that would be well suited to the smaller Clio.

    Most tests I have read say that the Golf in it's suspension charachter is more closesly matched to the Clio but in size is closer to the Megane.

    Luckily Renault has a 2 pronged attack whereas most others have just the one true sport hatch. As a result, RenaultSport tried to capture a more mature market with the Megane 225 by making it a quick, smooth tourer (a function it performs well).

    It was never meant to be a bigger Clio - more a competitor to the previous softer Golf...

    With the new Golf going alot more extreme and driver oriented than it's predescesor, it has realigned itself more with the Clio, leaving the Megane out on a limb with it's softer more compromised suspension tune.

    I can't help but think that Renault should have released a regular Renault Megane GT fulfilling the same role as the current car (with the current suspension setup and a touch less power - Lets say 205bhp) and then gone with a harder edged RenaultSport Megane with more Clio like suspension tune and 225hp...

    I feel that by using the RenaultSport name on the 225 people are expecting a big Clio. By marketing a turbo version of a regular Renault Megane (as the current tourer it is) you can then let RenaultSport maintain their hard edged reputation by going extreme with suspension setup...
    Last edited by mistareno; 10th August 2005 at 01:44 PM.

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    So the Megane Sport is not really that sporty, more aligned with a GT type hatch like the A3 TFSI, which happens to be a second faster than the Megane on the track with a DSG gearbox.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    With the new Golf going alot more extreme and driver oriented than it's predescesor, it has realigned itself more with the Clio, leaving the Megane out on a limb with it's softer more compromised suspension tune.
    I wasn't going to bother, but seeing as this thread seems to be heading for another VW/Renault battle challenge....

    How has the Golf V aligned itself with the Clio? Hasn't the Golf V, (in particular the GTi as a performance handling package), raised the bar for the Megane segment, a car which it basically shares all of its vital statistics with?

    A shame the price reduction for the RS Megane would have arrived too late for the magazine, with its new sub $40K price tag it would have been an interesting battle to see all three (Golf, Clio, Megane) in a head to head comparison.




    To Mantra, the reason the Barina SRi would not have been included is that it is now in runout mode, so Holden would likely not have supplied a car.

    One other thing for a BFYB feature would be a review of the past winners, to see if they were actually worth the bucks in terms of durability, reliability and resale. With some it could end up being a case of blowing your dough :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    So the Megane Sport is not really that sporty, more aligned with a GT type hatch like the A3 TFSI, which happens to be a second faster than the Megane on the track with a DSG gearbox.
    Yeah, the A3 is a bit softer in suspension setup than the VW GTi so that would probably be a good comparison...

    A second faster with the DSG box sounds about right...

    Was the Gti they used a DSG equipped version?

    Truly a great use of technology and finally a proper alternative to conventional manual gearboxes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by macquered
    So the Megane Sport is not really that sporty, more aligned with a GT type hatch like the A3 TFSI, which happens to be a second faster than the Megane on the track with a DSG gearbox.

    I think the megane is certainly still sporty but I agree with Richards idea of marketing a lux semi-sporty hatch in addition to a more aggressive renaultsport model. Everytime I get behind the wheel I must admit I still giggle with the same excitement as when I first test drove one. The car certainly pulls like a sportscar even if it doesn't match the power on the track with handling. It does enough for me.

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    Does anyone know if we're getting the Trophy edition of the RSM here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    I wasn't going to bother, but seeing as this thread seems to be heading for another VW/Renault battle challenge....

    How has the Golf V aligned itself with the Clio? Hasn't the Golf V, (in particular the GTi as a performance handling package), raised the bar for the Megane segment, a car which it basically shares all of its vital statistics with?
    You don't read to well do you?

    This is what I posted:
    "Most tests I have read say that the Golf in it's suspension character is more closesly matched to the Clio but in size is closer to the Megane."

    Note the words "suspension character"

    I'd agree that the Golf has raised the handling bar for the C segment but it has done so by applying the more uncompromising ride/handling nature of smaller vehicles like the Clio...

    The motoring Jouros will love it but it may make the car more frustrating as a day to day vehicle...

    The Megane took a far more traditional 'C' segment route and as such I don't think it should really wear the RenaultSport badge. The forthcoming model is probably more inline with RenaultSport's 'Clio' developed ideals and reputaion of ultimate driving enjoyment and will probably be more closely comparable with the Golf Gti.

    The more interesting thing for me about the Golf is not the handling (which is still not categorically superior to the Clio) but the new DSG box and Turbo Diesel Engines...

    I really do think the Golf is a great car to drive, and it fulfils it's designed role very well. The Megane also fulfils it's role very well, it's just a different role to the Golf...
    Last edited by mistareno; 10th August 2005 at 03:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    You don't read to well do you?
    Ever thought it could be the way you write?

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    Well. I drove a Golf Gti on the weekend and have driven a number of CLio Sports (172 & 182). Neither of them have a particularly rough ride in any shape or form. Not sure how much more comfortable a Megane 225 could be in that regard without it leading to floaty ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GTI124
    Does anyone know if we're getting the Trophy edition of the RSM here?
    We will not be getting the Megane Trophy Limited Edition in Australia however all the chassis modifications featured on the Trophy (except the ultra light wheels) will reportedly be standard on all future Megane 225's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    Was the Gti they used a DSG equipped version?
    I doubt it .. otherwise it would have been in the $40-$50K bracket (and not the sub $40K at $39,990).

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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC
    I doubt it .. otherwise it would have been in the $40-$50K bracket (and not the sub $40K at $39,990).

    - xTc -
    Yeah, good point, unless they base the group structure on starting price for the purposes of organisational simplicity

    I'd imagine that if it was a manual Gti, then the DSG GTi would probably own a RCS around Wakefield...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ashvsaod
    4th... wow, I guess considering the Golf was in there... Oh well.. The 206 chasis has done well for seven years. But it is time for the 207.
    Erm, the Clio's chassis is older

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pug307
    Erm, the Clio's chassis is older
    Yes it is. But the Clio isn't being replaced anytime soon. The 206 is basically gone.
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