Parking Rage
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Dr_Pug's Avatar
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    Icon4 Parking Rage

    Everyone today I guess is aware of road rage as its getting more media coverage, but today events gives it a hole a whole new meaning.

    As I was getting out of my car going into woolies. I see a young male swearing at an older gentlemen. Something along the lines as you stole my car spot, the argument got more heated where the young male returned to his car an pulled a crow bar and smashed the older gentlemen's rear windshield.

    The older gentlemen got out the vehicle where he then got assaulted by the younger male with the crow bar. Must of got about 3 or 4 blows before me and another bystander rushed towards the elderly gentlemen who by then was lying in his own blood.

    The bystander that was closest to the young gentelmen disarmed him held him face down on the pavement where the young gentlemen continued to strugle then would act deadlike then continue to strugle. As this was occuring cops turned up must say they were pretty quick. The bystander let go of the young gentlement where he continued to act injured.

    Now, I dont believe the bystander was using any excessive force apart from holding him down. The cop must of saw what was going on because the young gentlement actions were contradictory. Therefore it was some kind of act in attempt to abscond or some kind of claim for secondary assuault.

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    Anyway the young gentlemen was put back into the padi wagon and the elderly male was taken away by ambulance.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 5th August 2005 at 05:57 PM.
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    Bloody hell...

    What on earth is going on....
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    Crowbar I'd have broken his arm and smashed his head into the ground with enough force to knock him out ........ See how tough he is when it's someone his own age confronting him (yes my wife frequently tells me I'm going to get the sh!t beaton out of me oneday).

    This sort of thing is simply not on ....

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    That is SHOKCING!

    I can't belive anybody could get like that over a car spot, for that matter over ANYTHING!!!

    Where was the carpark?
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    Quote Originally Posted by n b j
    Where was the carpark?
    In woolies, campsie.
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    Blackster ....

    You're going to need this ..

    first time in court

    .. I know someone else who got assulted by 2 young males with crowbars in a road rage incident, and despite dozens of witnesses (number plates and descriptions) the cops couldn't find them

    It wasn't until a few months later an insurnace investigator looking at a personal injury claim worked it out. The morons tried to claim compensation for being hit by a car (yes as my friend was being attacked and having his car smashed and arm almost broken, he tried to run them over - unsucessfully) but they dobbed themselves in ... when the insurance guy talked to my friend, he rang the police who went around and arrested the culprits .. great investigative work when you have to resort to finding your own attackers

    They got some large fines, but no jail time ..

    This guy you witnessed, here's hoping jail time ... if he's young and tight he'll be a "favourite" I bet .... karma will get ya.
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    Hold him down, give the crowbar to the old gent and say go for it mate

    Seriously, this is f**ked up. As XTC, karma will catch up with him eventually.

    Hope the old gent pulled up Ok.
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    What a bloody PRICK! I can not believe this My dad is fairly old so I have some sort of compassion for the elderly... Gosh, If I was there I don't know what I would have done... I can't imagin anyone who would be cold enough to do such a thing.

    How old was the poor bloke?

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    How long will it take before they get serious with this sort of crime. Instead it's hidden behind trivialising cliches like "road rage" which mask it's seriousness i.e assault, attempted murder, murder. The fact is, crimes that occur as a result of an incident between two drivers, are currently treated much more leniently by the justice system than the same crime occurring elsewhere eg. nightclub, parkland...
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    Some may recall that there was a "road rage" murder in Glebe late last year where an older man died. My stepson was in the vicinity and while not seeing enough to be called as a witness, it certainly shook him up somewhat.

    It also mellowed his attitude to other drivers in the process too. Not that he was a stroppy driver before, but he is even better now (or would be if the office of state revenue hadn't suspended his licence - a whole other story that I won't go into...)

    The remarkable thing is that in France and Britain people are so much more courteous to each other and forgiving if you do something stupid. The attitude seems to be if you do something stupid and no one gets hit or hurt and you can all keep going the good. There might be some arm waving or cursing by each driver but there seems to be little in the way of fights etc.

    There really are some A grade ******s on the roads in Aus. and of course the last thing you want to do if you are driving something a bit different is to attract their attention.

    I hope the older guy recovers and justice is delivered to the little toe rag.

    By the way, my method for finding a car park these days is to either take the first spot I see if there is one near the entry OR head further away from the door of the shopping centre as it takes less time to walk from the car than it does to wait for a closer spot to be found or available. Many times I might enter behind another car, have parked and be inside before they have left their car. And, it is far easier to get out of the park later.
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    Same here, i park at the furthest possible spot from the shopping centre entry... It's also useful for avoiding scratches from idiots ramming their doors into your car. (as less people park so far away!)
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    Congratualtions on going to assist.

    So many of these morons get away because bystanders do nothing. The "oh I wont get involveds".

    This stoppping fighting is a common ploy of these weak witted bullies and the moment that less force is used to hold them they will turn to attack.

    So far this year I have stopped to assist at two serious accidents in a very busy street near where I live in the first, a six lane road 9.30am , an ambulance under emergency conditions was hit by a van. A school girl was trying to direct traffic around it and no-one else helped. The woman in the ambulance was under emergency child birth, the van driver and one ambulance officer injured and everyone was just driving around the obstacle.

    The other last week when a Mazda was T boned. When I went to leave the scene the cop ran down to my car, he thanked me most profusely for helping the injured person. It was then I thought this cop is really surprised someone even bothered to stop.

    It is sad when this type of parking assault happens but we seem desensitised to people in need.

    So once again I think you deserve to be thanked for going to assist.

    Graelin

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Crowbar I'd have broken his arm and smashed his head into the ground with enough force to knock him out ........ See how tough he is when it's someone his own age confronting him (yes my wife frequently tells me I'm going to get the sh!t beaton out of me oneday).

    This sort of thing is simply not on ....

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Yep nothing like a bit of attitude adjustment trouble is the perpertrator gets his way with a backhanded charge against you > So get in and get out before the cops arrive bet no one remembers the aggro Samaritain who saved the old guy from a severe beating when the perpertrator complains.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin
    Congratualtions on going to assist.

    So many of these morons get away because bystanders do nothing. The "oh I wont get involveds".

    This stoppping fighting is a common ploy of these weak witted bullies and the moment that less force is used to hold them they will turn to attack.

    So far this year I have stopped to assist at two serious accidents in a very busy street near where I live in the first, a six lane road 9.30am , an ambulance under emergency conditions was hit by a van. A school girl was trying to direct traffic around it and no-one else helped. The woman in the ambulance was under emergency child birth, the van driver and one ambulance officer injured and everyone was just driving around the obstacle.

    The other last week when a Mazda was T boned. When I went to leave the scene the cop ran down to my car, he thanked me most profusely for helping the injured person. It was then I thought this cop is really surprised someone even bothered to stop.

    It is sad when this type of parking assault happens but we seem desensitised to people in need.

    So once again I think you deserve to be thanked for going to assist.

    Graelin
    Thanks, but its not needed I really didnt do much. If I new that his swearing was going to eventuate to the old man getting belted. Perhaps me and other bystander could of saved the old man from getting a hiding.

    Belting someone over a parking spot is pathetic, but belting an old man over it brings a new meaning to LOW
    Last edited by WRC180; 5th August 2005 at 08:01 PM.
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    So guys, why does this sort of stuff happen?

    How can an individual become so enraged over something so minor as to forget one of the primary golden priciples of life; thou shall not kill?

    How can his view be so forshortened as to overlook the outcome of his actions;

    injury to the older man

    damage to property

    that someone will be held accountable

    that the police will be involved

    he will go to court

    charged with minimum aggravated assault

    possible attempted murder

    he will go to jail for 3 to 5 years or more

    he has totally interrupted some person's, couple's, families' life

    What thoughts are inside the head of such a person.

    What does he understand of care or respect, remembering that he has/had parents and grandparents?

    Please ignore this unless you think you have something to add, we have had the cliches from the popular media, outrage, disbelief, calls for tougher this or that, etc.

    Contemplation of societal behaviours fills much of my ponderings and I would be interested to see the range of insights into our society as expressed by such a diverse but related group as the frogs.

    In search of more light

    edgedweller

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    How can an individual become so enraged over something so minor as to forget one of the primary golden priciples of life; thou shall not kill? In search of more light edgedweller
    Not offering it up as an excuse, I'd bet this person (knucklehead) has probably faced, witnessed or been the victim of similar type violence. We develop social behaviours from our peers, our parents and our siblings. "Normal" people develop sense of right or wrong at about 5, though there is growing evidence that chemical brain imbalances can cause temporary "blocks" to the paths that guides us with common sense.

    Unfortunately it's LAWYERS who are pursuing this line without keeping step with the medical research that proves it, in desperate attempts to get clients found innocent.

    Personally if there is an "issue" chemical brain wise, this shouldn't exonerate guilt, but it may alter the kind or rehab process the offender undergoes. I'd also like to see victims have more input and say into a guilty parties punishment, and if that means facing up to the victim, corporal punishment then so be it.

    Heavy stuff for a early morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MARK BIRD
    Yep nothing like a bit of attitude adjustment trouble is the perpertrator gets his way with a backhanded charge against you > So get in and get out before the cops arrive bet no one remembers the aggro Samaritain who saved the old guy from a severe beating when the perpertrator complains.
    That's true.

    I will not tolerate any road rage when my family is in the car, if it's just me .... I can run, really, really fast if there's insentive like someone coming at you with a weapon.... If my family is in the car .... Them or me, 1st gear, pop the clutch, full boost into stupid idiot that thinks there tougher than a 1.5ton turbo charged CX. I'm not going to have my families life risked by some phsyco in a road rage attack. The police can sort it out later ... when my family is safe, if I get charged, I get charged ... At least my family wasn't attacked with a club lock/crow bar/knife/ etc....

    If you ever get attacked like above ... Just sprint your guts out, run into the local supermarket.... (that's what I'd do). If the families in the car .... I don't know .... If they had a metal bar I'd just cuddle them (just watch someone try to hit you with something when your cuddling them, a knee or two into there floating ribs while your cuddling them should take the wind out of there sails). If they had a knife and the family was in the car ... I really don't know, it's really easy to be really dead in the blink of eye ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    So guys, why does this sort of stuff happen?

    How can an individual become so enraged over something so minor as to forget one of the primary golden priciples of life; thou shall not kill?

    How can his view be so forshortened as to overlook the outcome of his actions;

    injury to the older man

    damage to property

    that someone will be held accountable

    that the police will be involved

    he will go to court

    charged with minimum aggravated assault

    possible attempted murder

    he will go to jail for 3 to 5 years or more

    he has totally interrupted some person's, couple's, families' life

    What thoughts are inside the head of such a person.

    What does he understand of care or respect, remembering that he has/had parents and grandparents?

    Please ignore this unless you think you have something to add, we have had the cliches from the popular media, outrage, disbelief, calls for tougher this or that, etc.

    Contemplation of societal behaviours fills much of my ponderings and I would be interested to see the range of insights into our society as expressed by such a diverse but related group as the frogs.

    In search of more light

    edgedweller
    I think he may own a Proton might explain his mental state

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    So guys, why does this sort of stuff happen?

    How can an individual become so enraged over something so minor as to forget one of the primary golden priciples of life; thou shall not kill?
    <snip>
    Contemplation of societal behaviours fills much of my ponderings and I would be interested to see the range of insights into our society as expressed by such a diverse but related group as the frogs.

    In search of more light

    edgedweller
    Edge

    My son (The Psychologist) would put better labels on this behaviour, I can only speak from experience in dealing with society and individuals over many years.

    Some in society are bought up and pampered with their bad temper and rages unchecked by parental discipline, as life goes on they find this evokes a kind of fear in others and a power to do what they like and if stopped or frustrated resort to violence as the only way to establish or re-establish their power over others.

    Years ago they would be swept up for treatment by the Mental Health Authorities and confined under section 8 orders for treatment, however as the "science" of Mental health advanced they were considered bad, but not mad, rejected by medical science and dealt with in the justice/prison system.

    This type of offender has no sense of personal discipline and does what they like to suit themselves, they accept no boundaries to their own behaviour.

    To limited degrees there are individuals walking free in our communities who will use rage to reinforce their egocentric world- the degree of rage induced behaviour will involve brain chemicals in some individuals and tip them from verbal to destructive action. In others it is merely there are insufficient learned discipline (socialisation) to reinforce normal reasoning and belief that consquences (punishment) will follow if they allow their rage to get out of hand.

    Often rage gives an individual physical strength and power out of all proportion of their physical stature and when subdued or restrained they will fall limp and almost childlike as that energy level dissapates. Rage may also be induced in individual that take steriods as part of a body building regime, but find that they cannot control rage and the physical urge to do damage to others as the normal reasoning processes are brushed aside by the enhanced rage chemical flow.

    there are also those individuals that have suffered brain trauma that damages certain areas of the brain similar to legal experimental lobotomy operations that were carried out on Patients in the Neurosurgical units of several Melbourne Hospitals. The characteristics of these patients was that while some behaviours were curbed the patient had no ability to control their anger.

    Most of these experimental patients knew that their anger was rising and they would then try to extricate (leave) themselves from the cause, unfortunately well meaning people tried to stop them leaving and their anger peaked in a rage assault using whatever was to hand. Immediately after the attack the ex patient would slump to the ground and the episode was over.

    Brain trauma patients may have similar characteristics depending upon the areas of the brain effected and then there are those that have been born with mental defects, some have problems that can be controlled by careful and life long medication, others are confined in institutions.

    By far the most that you will meet in the street who resort to rage are either pathethic individuals with little social conscience or those not limited by any socialisation outside of their families or family background.

    When I read back over this it seems to be a clumsy way of dealing with a very complex subject, but I do know that if a child comes from a place of reasonable discipline and social conscious background and has some though for others then it is unlikely, they will succumb to the "brain Chemical" imbalance due to self training to recognise and divert from behaviour that will only aggravate the situation.

    Thats my try anyway.

    Ken

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    Trying to explain post event, ....seems rather pointless, considering number of possible influences/factors.....
    I d have his ARMS cut off. FULL STOP
    Be interesting to know to what effect (having your arms cut off should you hit elders for above reason) it would curtail such behaviour.....Bet u 10:1 it stops it in its tracks (such aggressive behavior).....



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    Violence on TV, video games with extreme violence are these desensitising certain individuals?

    I can remember dealing with young kids around 12 yo wandering streets and you could tell which tv program they had been influenced by within minutes of talking to them.

    The tv programers deny this but then charge large dollars for a 30 second commercial slot on the grounds that will influence viewers.

    Graelin

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    In my experience when faced with these sort of rage episodes by members of the public (from both a crowd controllers point of view & as just a person there at the time...) ...I have noted that a majority (not all, but most) are often linked to some sort of substance abuse such as kenfuego touched on...steroid abuse and/or aphetamine abuse being the two "usual suspects"
    In some individuals who use/abuse these substances...they can have the effect of shutting down the control centres of the brain & at the same time heighten response to even mild stimuli...causing the person to 'flip' into an outburst way beyond any reasonable response.....to all effects & purposes...a psychotic rage. these are people, who without the influence of the substance, would be nice mild mannered Joe, who has been brought up "proper" with manners etc (but does often have some anger issues)...& would never contemplate doing something like that in pre-substance state of mind....
    unfortunately the use of these substances is quite widespread...& in some individuals it can trigger situations like the one blackster witnessed.

    I know this is only a fragment of the issue...& it involves a much greater depth to it...but it is a significant piece of the puzzle. & unfortunately, I have witnessed too many of these episodes.
    Aus
    P.S. In some individuals...alcohol can have a similar effect, but it doesn't seem to have quite the same psychotic tendancies in my experience.
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    Thanks all for your thoughtful replies,

    I guess my major point of interest with this is how people can act with so little concern for the outcome of their behaviour, to their victim but also to themselves.

    But then I saw 4 corners last night and it brought back the horror of some domestic situation that I had had the fortune/misfortune to observe. Adding the considerations that have been expressed here and I'm surprised/pleased that there isn't more mindless violence in our community.

    If you are interested and have broadband, check Fourcorners, the bit where the grandmother is ridiculing the 7 yo boy because he can't squeeze the trigger of what looks, at a minimum, to be a 357 magnum is chilling.

    Points out clearly the amount of confusion that people can have in their heads before they experience much of life and this before they add drugs.

    It is all appalling.

    thanks ed ge

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    Quote Originally Posted by edgedweller
    So guys, why does this sort of stuff happen?

    How can an individual become so enraged over something so minor as to forget one of the primary golden priciples of life; thou shall not kill?

    How can his view be so forshortened as to overlook the outcome of his actions;

    injury to the older man

    damage to property

    that someone will be held accountable

    that the police will be involved

    he will go to court

    charged with minimum aggravated assault

    possible attempted murder

    he will go to jail for 3 to 5 years or more

    he has totally interrupted some person's, couple's, families' life

    What thoughts are inside the head of such a person.

    What does he understand of care or respect, remembering that he has/had parents and grandparents?

    Please ignore this unless you think you have something to add, we have had the cliches from the popular media, outrage, disbelief, calls for tougher this or that, etc.

    Contemplation of societal behaviours fills much of my ponderings and I would be interested to see the range of insights into our society as expressed by such a diverse but related group as the frogs.

    In search of more light

    edgedweller
    First, don't read my attempts to understand reasons why as any kind of justification for this kind of behaviour. There is no excuse for it. I have my own views on reasons this kind of thing seems to be happening more and more - I feel it is a result of ever increasing levels of frustration and pressure in day to day life, especially in cities. It's not just on the road either but thinking about the road rage case ... So many people are driving under great time pressure to be somewhere. They're stuck in traffic jams and congestion getting wound up all the time. The congestion makes people drive in a more aggressive way, competing to be first in the queue, push in front etc. which makes it worse. There are ever more rules, regulations and restrictions on driving so we rarely feel relaxed when driving in town - always worrying did I see the last change in speed limit / the school zone sign / the speeed camera. At the destination there's often nowhere to park. It is all building stress, pushing people closer to the edge of their temper. Take that, add in a guy with a short fuse and a few other day-to-day problems (wife / girlfriend / job / money) and it boils over.
    unfrogged (for now)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 106 Rallye
    First, don't read my attempts to understand reasons why as any kind of justification for this kind of behaviour. There is no excuse for it. I have my own views on reasons this kind of thing seems to be happening more and more - I feel it is a result of ever increasing levels of frustration and pressure in day to day life, especially in cities. It's not just on the road either but thinking about the road rage case ... So many people are driving under great time pressure to be somewhere. They're stuck in traffic jams and congestion getting wound up all the time. The congestion makes people drive in a more aggressive way, competing to be first in the queue, push in front etc. which makes it worse. There are ever more rules, regulations and restrictions on driving so we rarely feel relaxed when driving in town - always worrying did I see the last change in speed limit / the school zone sign / the speeed camera. At the destination there's often nowhere to park. It is all building stress, pushing people closer to the edge of their temper. Take that, add in a guy with a short fuse and a few other day-to-day problems (wife / girlfriend / job / money) and it boils over.
    Interesting. I'd be curious then to see road rage statistics in asian countries such as malaysia, thailand, india, china where a larger population in a smaller city contributes to massive amounts of traffic congestion (eg kuala lumpur, peak hour is defined between the hours of 4 and 8pm with the result that it can easily take up to 2 hrs to traverse 15-20km), notwithstanding conditions of living in most of these countries where work hours are long, people are poor, higher infant mortality rates etc etc etc. For every 'hard luck' case in Australia, you'll find a 100 there that will make you weep. So yeah, I wonder what road rage statistics in those places are. I expect however, that though rage does occur in those places to varying degrees, it generally doesn't escalate past a bit of yelling and jumping up and down. Maybe it has something to do with the selfishness of our society and more importantly how much we take for granted what we have. If the reasons for our road rage are being caught up in a bit of traffic whilst our life includes such trivial items like a @sshole where you work or not paid enough to afford that large screen tv that your next door neighbour also has, or your wife/gf is nagging, then maybe we need to look at those others around the world who also have traffic, except 10 times worse, and their child is sick but they can't afford to take it to hospital because their weekly pay is barely enough to buy 7 days worth of food.
    Take the long way home....

    - 306 gti6

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