Upsetting
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! sproose16v's Avatar
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    Default Upsetting

    Makes me feel upset to see that these are all frogs listed here:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/survey/unreliable.shtml

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  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I'd blame pommie pre-delivery myself...

    And they probably counted flat tyres too.

  3. #3
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I don't judge anything on that list for several reasons.
    I know people who own the cars all over the World and I can't believe that only the ones I know are in the majority happy with them so look to the reasons.
    Constant speculation by those "in the know" (such as Top Gear) that French cars are unreliable.
    Result; every new owner is jumping at shadows. Every rattle is potentially an engine falling out, every squeak is potentially a door about to fall off, so as a result you end up with a bunch of neurotic owners courtesy of the media and usually fuelled by those in the car maintenance industry; nothing is more profitable than fear.
    The fear of working on them is fuelled again by sections of the same industry. Why? because it reduces competition and allows prices to be kept way above value. When anyone does try to work on them, psychologically they are looking for things that will create problems more than looking at ways of doing the job.
    How many cars are front wheel drive and have an east/west engine? Then why is a Cit or a Pug so different? Ask the question and see what answer you get "Well they just are; have you ever tried to work on one?" is usually as detailed as it gets. I was recently told by an "expert" in an auto accessories store at the Gold Coast that spark plugs would cost $22 each minimum because he found they were for a Citroen. Why? "because they have ta be be special ones for them cars coz they got resisters an' things in their plug leads" he seemed a bit miffed when I just said "don't talk bullshit!!" and walked out of the shop.
    People who have these nightmare experiences on used cars tend to pass this info onto any new buyer they come across and the cycle starts all over again. This isn't helped by the pathetic dealer network and backup (or lack of it) by distributors, lack of training of service personnell at dealerships and the mentality that regardless of the complaint, the customer is always wrong. If the partnerships with the Japanese companies goes ahead, these characters will get the biggest toe up the coight in automotive history believe me because I used to work for a Toyota dealer and they will sort this out so fast it'll make lightning look slow and regardless of how they try to maintain these low standards, the Japs will walk through them.
    These problems aren't exclusive to Australia as from what I hear overseas, these things are entrenched into the culture f the French car industry worldwide.
    French cars haven't succeeded to where they are because of the Industry Structure from manufacturer to dodgy backyard repairer, but in spite of it as proven by these kinds of surveys and compared to the sales which seem to be if not on the increase, then still very bouyant.



    Alan S
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  4. #4
    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Constant speculation by those "in the know" (such as Top Gear) that French cars are unreliable.
    Result; every new owner is jumping at shadows. Every rattle is potentially an engine falling out, every squeak is potentially a door about to fall off, so as a result you end up with a bunch of neurotic owners courtesy of the media and usually fuelled by those in the car maintenance industry; nothing is more profitable than fear.
    It'd be good to see a French top 150 reliable cars and see of any of the English brands fair poorly.

    - xTc -
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Constant speculation by those "in the know" (such as Top Gear) that French cars are unreliable.
    Result; every new owner is jumping at shadows. Every rattle is potentially an engine falling out, every squeak is potentially a door about to fall off, so as a result you end up with a bunch of neurotic owners courtesy of the media and usually fuelled by those in the car maintenance industry; nothing is more profitable than fear.
    The fear of working on them is fuelled again by sections of the same industry. Why? because it reduces competition and allows prices to be kept way above value. When anyone does try to work on them, psychologically they are looking for things that will create problems more than looking at ways of doing the job. Alan S
    Dead right Alan
    Example
    One brother bought Xsara after driving mine. Big mistake on my part as he will never buy another French car. He is always looking for something to go wrong!
    Called RAC the other day because the Xsara was making a clonking sound, because he instantly fears the worst. Result a spike stuck in the tyre! Hardly the cars fault. (Now add another call out to unreliable French car in RAC records)

    Now his Subaru can do no wrong despite having had worse problems than the Citroen!!!!!
    He will buy another Subaru despite dealer problems, clutch failure repeatedly and never fixed (just loses clutch then it comes back later). It is purely psychological his family (extended) all drive Hyundais, Fiestas and Camrys so the Citroen is the focus off attention should any fault appear. Justifies the rest owning their c..p cars.

    Now my Laguna the industry put the fear of God into me over a what turned out to be a small fault in the gearbox. Result I sold the car. Before I found this site unfortunately and received good quality information. Now I took it to the most well respected French car mechanics and by the end of this I was terrified of doom and gloom, for example could be anywhere from $1400-$6,000.
    Turned out to be just a solenoid!

    Other brother 1995 Foulcan bought new would be at the bottom for reliability yet owners just put up with the traditional Ford Cylinder head probs and the rest with comments like "Oh mine did that to".

    Go figure

    Graelin

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    I agree totally, French cars have their share of "reliability" problems but some of them are pretty minor compared to other makes. My Pug has never had major mechanical problems, only the usual-must-do-because-of-wear-and-tear stuff which every car owner needs to do at some stage.

    Recently, a potential 206 owner was put off by "informed" friends that French cars were expensive to maintain and were unreliable and bought a Hyundai Getz instead!
    Afre hearing from myself and another Pug owner how good our cars were, the purchase was instantly regretted but a bit late!

    Wonder how many froggy potentials may have encountered the same biased, ignorant filled advice from people who have never ever driven or owned one and as a result, bought something else of lesser quality
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    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    The most unreliable car I ever owned was a Jag XJ12. My bloody god that thing used to blow coolant out of the bonnet, the transmission died and the exhaust system became totally stuffed. Then, having a look under the bonnet hooley dooleys!! Where does one start. I dunno why I bought it, each service cost $1200.

    Top Gear are generally pretty fair in their comparisons. But my neighbor in the UK owned a Pug 106 and had all sorts of grief from the local dealership. Me on the other hand had the Volvo dealership bending over backwards to meet my requests.
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    if you're happy with something you'll tell a few people... if you're unhappy, you'll tell the world...

    Yeah frogs & reliability... how many times have i beaten my head against a wall talking to nieve people about this... *sigh*

  9. #9
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    This is an interesting figure: 5: Skoda Octavia - 91.7

    When i was in Czech republic a while back saw lots of them.

  10. #10
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Anyone remember the time when mechanics would say they couldn't work on French cars because they had 'funny freds'?

    There's a magazine article on that subject somewhere...

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danielsydney
    This is an interesting figure: 5: Skoda Octavia - 91.7

    When i was in Czech republic a while back saw lots of them.

    Skoda now make some quality cars. I think they were taken over by Ford or something.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts TroyO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stone Free
    Skoda now make some quality cars. I think they were taken over by Ford or something.
    Volkswagen actually.

    Troy.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Stone Free's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TroyO
    Volkswagen actually.

    Troy.

    Yes, my mistake.
    The AWARD WINNING 1998 Blaze Yellow 306 GTi6


    ......and a Series 3 205GTi on the side.



    "I enjoy telling people what to do, because I am an arrogant rock star. That's what I do. That's my job." Gene Simmons, ROCK SCHOOL.

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