No more LRP - problem for older cars
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    Default No more LRP - problem for older cars

    With the withdrawal of LRP at the pumps, would that pose a problem for the million or so users of older cars (pre 1985). How would using PULP affect these drivers and is there a need for valve lubes for pre ULP froggy cars or do they all have hardened valves?

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atan
    With the withdrawal of LRP at the pumps, would that pose a problem for the million or so users of older cars (pre 1985). How would using PULP affect these drivers and is there a need for valve lubes for pre ULP froggy cars or do they all have hardened valves?

    some have hardened seats and some don't

    if they have they are safe but if they don't then either something like flashlube or a canister is needed to help them along
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Peugeot valve seats don't cope at all well...

    The XN heads after 1982 (the ones with the big block between the head and exhaust manifold) are okay, V6 heads and Douvrin 4 heads are fine.

    When it comes to an early XN head, I totally recommend a tin canister or fuel catalyst in the fuel line. I had one head that lost 15 thou from each exhaust seat in 1700kms... then the canister went on and nothing wore for another 80,000kms!

    They do live up to expectations in this regard. No Flashlube, no oil in the petrol, nothing else used with it.

    Well worth the cost, you can move them from car to car and they have an expected life of over a million kms.

    Cost much less than getting hard seats put in too... and without the work!

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    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    Ray
    What is a fuel catalyst canister? Additives I understand but an in line canister I dont Doh!
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    From the horse's mo... well, from Doring's website...

    http://www.doringindustries.com/main.htm

    That's the brand I have, but there are many others.

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    1000+ Posts zykyra's Avatar
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    I have found running my DS on PULP with the additive (the one in the orange case???) that is has been fine. It works out expensive but the engine seems to like it. Has LRP been completely stopped though. Forgive my ignorance but a few
    service stations still use it dont they??
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You might be reading the descriptions on the bowsers the way they want you to...

    Shell have what they call 'Lead Free Super' coming from bowsers that once displayed 'LRP' on them. It's just premium unleaded... a product between regular and Optimax.

    And costs, yes costs... the tin canister will save you in the long run. We had someone tell us here some time ago that Repco have one for about $120. Two hose clamps and it's on, set and forget... though I'd recommend dismantling and washing the pellets with bleach once a year.

    By they way, my experience previously related, where I had all that valve seat erosion, that was using LRP!

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    MrV
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    so are those tin canisters good for any older car? for example, could my mate get one from repco fitted to his 84 bluebird and then be able to run on unleaded?
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Yeah, he could... but IIRC it would be a waste of time and money...

    The '84 Bluebird, along with most models with that engine (180B, 200B etc) don't need it, they have the good valve seats already.

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    MrV
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    so is unleaded (premium?) a reasonable goer now? would he need an additive of some kind? just wondering cos that particular car was always run on LRP......

    but then if it had to premium it would still be same price to run it on LRP wouldn't it, as the mark up is the same isnt it...?

    who should i suggest he talk to about this - local mechanic?
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    There used to be a list at the servos telling which cars that came out in the lead era could run on unleaded... in other words, which cars had compatible valve seats.

    Just consult that list... if the car's on it, use premium unleaded...

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    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    There used to be a list at the servos telling which cars that came out in the lead era could run on unleaded... in other words, which cars had compatible valve seats.

    Just consult that list... if the car's on it, use premium unleaded...
    I think most euro cars that were MY80 onwards would have the hardened vlave seats as Europe was running ULP before us by years. Porsche for instance from 1978 run on PULP today and some had their ignition timing retarded to run on Leaded in the old days. Comments?
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    '80 and '81 505s and 504s definitely did not have seats compatible with unleaded...

    The Datsuns go back before that, however. What was the situation in Japan?

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Man what's poogoe doing ..... You'd have to go back to the traction to find a Citroen that will not be happy to run on PULP (and that's only 'cos they have cast iron heads).

    Why are poogoes valve seats of such poor quality

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    Fellow Frogger! Atan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    '80 and '81 505s and 504s definitely did not have seats compatible with unleaded...

    The Datsuns go back before that, however. What was the situation in Japan?
    Sorry don't know about Japanese cars compatability. It would seem that differnt euro car makers used differnt bits or put different bits for world car distribution compared to their local markets
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    NZ-spec Japanese cars were could run on unleaded from way back when. My sister's old '79 Honda purred like a kitten on 91 unleaded. I assume Aussie ones would be the same.

    What were Pugeot thinking?

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    Hi,
    Ray's experience with the fuel pellets is interesting and i don't question that it is so.
    However, i recall that the MG club in England offered the chance to one of these companies to test the effectiveness on old MGs with reconditoned heads under controlled conditions.
    Initially the fuel catalyst company agreed but when it came to the test they pulled out.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    While I have total confidence in the catalysts for protection of valve seats, JoBo, I know the engine still tends to pink...

    The jury is still out on the claim of octane rating improvement.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    not all Jap cars

    i know pre 80 mazdas won't run on unleaded
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  20. #20
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    Check this list:

    http://www.aip.com.au/health/lead_guide.htm

    It should cover most applications, but would appear to have been compiled from old 91 octane ULP applications in some cases as things like Renault 20's and 25's will also be OK on PULP.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Well that list shows the 505GR... and we know that the first two years or so of that they couldn't run unleaded or premium unleaded...

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    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default No more LRP for older cars

    LRP was just another way of selling petrol at a dearer price, The active ingredient of leaded fuel was Tetra ethyl lead, there was no other substitute, but the lead lobby got it's way with the Federal Government's introduction of ULP. Leaded petrol was safe, ULP is not. Go to www.nexusmagazine.com then open up, "The lies of unleaded petrol." It is mindboggling the nasties that ULP contains.

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    1000+ Posts arunine's Avatar
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    Default No more LRP for older cars

    Sorry I missed the main context. My Citroen DS is fitted with a similar device as a Fuelstar. A friend of mine made it. It is a steel tube and inside are small discs of tin/lead solder threaded on a soft steel wire. The tube is then fitted with teated ends. The reaction of the lead or tin and steel causes a molecular change to the petrol. My DS used to ping on ULP but after this device was fitted, there has not been a sign of pinging.

  24. #24
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by arunine
    LRP was just another way of selling petrol at a dearer price, The active ingredient of leaded fuel was Tetra ethyl lead, there was no other substitute, but the lead lobby got it's way with the Federal Government's introduction of ULP. Leaded petrol was safe, ULP is not. Go to www.nexusmagazine.com then open up, "The lies of unleaded petrol." It is mindboggling the nasties that ULP contains.
    I've seen a similar article from New Zealand...

    So instead of the kids under four years old who sit in the gutter in busy city streets where cars bank up for traffic lights maybe having slow brain development, everyone runs a risk of getting cancer!

    Anyone for a job at a toll booth?

  25. #25
    MrV
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simon
    Check this list:

    http://www.aip.com.au/health/lead_guide.htm

    It should cover most applications, but would appear to have been compiled from old 91 octane ULP applications in some cases as things like Renault 20's and 25's will also be OK on PULP.
    thanks for the link......

    hmmm for nissan bluebird it stops explicitly at september-1983... since they ran to about 1986(?) this means that my mates one is specifically excluded which means a conversion of some kind
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