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  1. #1
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Default Supercheap Welder

    MIG welder, at Supercheap Auto, for $200

    Anyone know if its a waste of time, a piece of junk, or could be put to some use?

    Does anyone know what MIG welders they are?

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    I haven't seen or have any details on them, just saw them on an advert the other day.

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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    I have only had a quick look at them and they seem to look OK. I suppose in many ways a welder is only as good as the guy operating it. I'm hopeless on anything electric; can do almost anything with oxy, but my eyes don't seem to handle the simple ability to see accurately enough which when coupled with my long term injuries leads to more disasters than enough, yet my son can weld aluminium and stainless with the same welder. He went from a small MIG to one a bit bigger so he could get more versatility but his original one was similar to the one they now have for sale, if that's any use.

    If it's gasless, I understand it's also practically useless. If you only need a welder for rough jobs such as welding fgatigue cracks or heating theings so remove them such as outer cones on swing arm bearings, go a normal stick welder.

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  3. #3
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    the wirefeed is all important and on the cheap ones they are usually crap.
    Best ones are with separate wire feed.
    If you want to weld carpanels to a good standard use gasmig or tig.
    TIG requires a bit more practice/skill and the kit is more expensive espacially if you want it to weld alu.

  4. #4
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Thanks guys,

    I havent had a look myself, but I didn't expect much from a $200 MIG set.

    One of the first jobs I need to do would be welding a plate into the bottom of the rusted floor of a 16.

    Definitely no rush tho, I have stopped the rust for now, and plan on rebuilding her in a few years time.

    I might take a look, and also consider a few other things... sounds like its the sorta thing 'you get what you pay for'

    Sounds like TIG is the way to go... I only have experience with oxy, which I am quite good at.

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  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I have a cheap Ryobi MIG welder (it's 150amp). DO NOT get a gassless MIG. My piece of sh!t Ryobi (I consider anything with a Ryobi badge utter crap) I've done heaps of work with. For a peice of [email protected] it's brilliant. You must, must, *must* have the ability for it to be used with GAS. No doubt like me you'll be a tight arse 'cos you don't want to pay $120bux a years rental for a gas bottle. Then you'll scream and curse for months at the welder 'cos every weld you do with it's [email protected]

    Then oneday you'll decide "I'll just get a gas bottle for a few days and see how it goes"..... Suddenly the welder works brilliantly..... You wonder how on earth you ever survived without it.

    Ang just bought me one of those LCD self tinting welding masks for my birthday. Talk about making welding easy, no being blind to you strike an arc ..etc.... There down to $99bux on special at Mitre 10. I spent an hour the other night using the mask filling rust holes in my father inlaws trailer. It was dead easy, filling rust holes is very slow/hard going with a normal mask 'cos you gotta stop every half a second to let everything cool (then your blind until you remove the mask).

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I bought a SIP gasless (that can be converted to use gas too) a few years ago at a garage sale...

    I never tried it for about four years, then when I did I couldn't get anywhere. Until I bought a lighter tint for my welding mask!

    It wasn't too bad, especially considering the lack of experience on my behalf, but its feed motor seems to have died now.

  7. #7
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    umm Gasless MIG?
    doesnt MIG = Metal Inert Gas?, which means you run it with gas?

    I suppose its a welder capable of running with Gas, but just not using it?

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    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    OK, now we are getting somewhere.

    Shows how much I know.

    So making the above assumption, the cheapo welder can have a gas feed added?

    Tho I haven't seen the welder in question, who has? Alan S was it gasless?

    David.
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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate
    umm Gasless MIG?
    doesnt MIG = Metal Inert Gas?, which means you run it with gas?

    I suppose its a welder capable of running with Gas, but just not using it?

    they run a gasless wire hence the reason they don't need gas but if you are after a better than average job then a normal system using gas is the prefered method
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    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vivid
    OK, now we are getting somewhere.

    Shows how much I know.

    So making the above assumption, the cheapo welder can have a gas feed added?

    Tho I haven't seen the welder in question, who has? Alan S was it gasless?

    David.
    I honestly can't remember, but there's a member here R17G?? who lives at Browns Plains in Brisbane who works for SuperCheap; may be worth looking him up on the members list and sending him a PM.

    P.S. There are two members with similar handles I think one is Reno17 either way, look for the Browns Plains address (not teh Gold Coast one) and he should be able to sort it for you first hand.

    Alan S
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  11. #11
    Moderator vivid's Avatar
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    Cheers!
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  12. #12
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    If you are good with the oxy set you don't need anything else. Even aluminium alloys are possible if you know how. I can't do it but i know someone who can.

  13. #13
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    jobo,

    Problem is that oxy welds aren't all that tolerant to stresses and vibrations.
    How do I know? well I had a stub axle part company with the rest of the TQ I was driving at Tivoli Raceway years ago at around 80MPH this is why they go electric as a preference.


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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts alan moore's Avatar
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    I have a little SIP 100 MIG, that I run on gas. It has a fairly tiny drive motor, but seems to work OK. I have had it about 8 years, and have spent many hours on rust repair using 0.6 wire. It will weld up to 4mm steel OK, and I am quite happy with its' performance, even though it is a bit of a toy.
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  15. #15
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    I've had a go with a SIP gasless, and boy, it was hard to get a good weld! Unfortunately, I've never used a gas equipped MIG, but I've read a classic car mag test which suggested that gasless was a waste of time.

    JoBo, another problem with oxy is distortion of the metal due to over heating - MIG is less prone to this (not immune).

    Stuey


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  16. #16
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Speaking of Oxy welders, I remember a few years back there was a welder called a "Dillon" named after the guy who invented it. CIG bought the rights to it and Dillon used to tour the countryside, on their behalf, doing demos with it. Amazing piece of work in that it used LPG and Oxy instead of Acetylene and when in the hands of Dillon could be used to do some very small and accurate welds. He even welded Coke cans back together as one gimmick and could do welds as small as a thick pencil line. It's claim to fame was it's concentration of heat. I haven't seen one for years now so no doubt, CIG may have killed it off when no one was looking as it was using a cheap LPG rather than the more expensive acetylene (and associated bottle hire) but a similar one is available from hardware stores known as a "BurnsOmatic" which also operates on LPG and oxy and is fairly cheap to buy ($100 or so) but the killer is the tiny piddly bottles of gas you have to buy to operate it as they cost a fortune for what they are and last about 20 minutes if you're lucky, hence there's ongoing costs that make them impractical for larger jobs.


    Alan S
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Actually the term MIG and TIG are now redundant. It is GMAW and TGAW for gas metal arc welding and tungstan gas arc welding. Even checked the new roll of wire we got in at work sure enough GMAW wire. Another classic case of taking something that works well and is understood and changing it for seemingly the sake of it.
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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan S
    Speaking of Oxy welders, I remember a few years back there was a welder called a "Dillon" named after the guy who invented it. CIG bought the rights to it and Dillon used to tour the countryside, on their behalf, doing demos with it. Amazing piece of work in that it used LPG and Oxy instead of Acetylene and when in the hands of Dillon could be used to do some very small and accurate welds. He even welded Coke cans back together as one gimmick and could do welds as small as a thick pencil line. It's claim to fame was it's concentration of heat. I haven't seen one for years now so no doubt, CIG may have killed it off when no one was looking as it was using a cheap LPG rather than the more expensive acetylene (and associated bottle hire) but a similar one is available from hardware stores known as a "BurnsOmatic" which also operates on LPG and oxy and is fairly cheap to buy ($100 or so) but the killer is the tiny piddly bottles of gas you have to buy to operate it as they cost a fortune for what they are and last about 20 minutes if you're lucky, hence there's ongoing costs that make them impractical for larger jobs.


    Alan S
    was only thinking of the Dillon the other day. Guy I used to work with has one it was a brilliant piece of kit. Those burnsomatics are a licence to get a second mortgage if you want to weld anything much at all.
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  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! 123abc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cruiserman
    Actually the term MIG and TIG are now redundant. It is GMAW and TGAW for gas metal arc welding and tungstan gas arc welding. Even checked the new roll of wire we got in at work sure enough GMAW wire. Another classic case of taking something that works well and is understood and changing it for seemingly the sake of it.

    'MIG' welding was always called 'Gas Metal Arc Welding' from the begining, then for some reason it became known as MIG for Metal + Inert Gas.

    Problem is that oxy welds aren't all that tolerant to stresses and vibrations.
    How do I know? well I had a stub axle part company with the rest of the TQ I was driving at Tivoli Raceway years ago at around 80MPH this is why they go electric as a preference.
    oxy welding was where it all began, yesterdays heavy metal industry was built with an oxy torch and maybe a big old deisel lincoln arc welder. they made some incrediably strong stuff with oxy torches and arc welders back then. the only reason oxy welding today has a reputation for being poor is because todays generation of new tradesman is getting used to the idea of point-and-shoot MIG/GMAW.

    (i can say that because im a 3rd year apprentise fitter turner and at tafe we spent maybe half on hour total on oxy, out of a month of welding) luckyly the boiler maker at work has been at it for 40 years or so and he was able to show me the basics, ill never be that good though, he can work magic with an oxy and lay very strong welds.

  20. #20
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    My father in law restored an E-Type Jag using only oxy and steel wire. He's a trained panel beater - trained when they still learned about lead loading - and he's worked on Rolls-Royces and the like. Anyway, his welding with thin steel wire is superb. The welded in floor pan in one side of the Jag is a work of art to behold.

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  21. #21
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    Default Oxy Welding

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    My father in law restored an E-Type Jag using only oxy and steel wire. He's a trained panel beater - trained when they still learned about lead loading - and he's worked on Rolls-Royces and the like. Anyway, his welding with thin steel wire is superb. The welded in floor pan in one side of the Jag is a work of art to behold.

    Stuey

    I'm currently doing a panel fabrication and car restoration course at Kangan Batman TAFE (Richmond, Melbourne)

    We are currently fabricating panels from flat 1.0 mm. sheet, in two pieces and then gas welding them together.

    I thought I could gas weld until I saw the instructor demonsrate how to weld the panels,

    1) Align the panels with even contact down the join- then fuse the edges with the torch (without filler wire) at 20 mm intervals.

    2) Set to a neutral flame (#6 tip) and do a perfect even gas weld down the seam.

    3) Put dolly under whilst still hot and beat the join with flat hammer to shrink the weld and fill the the slight void .


    4) Finish with a body file - perfect join NO FILLER -BLOODY AMAZING TO SEE IT DONE and more amazing to see a join without any bog, paint or anything
    else.

    The reason oxy is preferred for panel work is because the filler material is mild steel, same as the panel and is maleable and can be worked.

  22. #22
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    Robmac, that's butt welded I assume? It's great to watch craftsmanship, isn't it! I'd love to see one of those guys that wheels panels into shape for something like a Bugatti...

    Cheers

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

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