Speed Camera's MP Challenge - No contest
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  1. #1
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    Icon10 Speed Camera's MP Challenge - No contest

    Since the Bracks Government refused to even consider installing Free and ACCURATE overhead speed indicators more than three years ago in Victoria, but went ahead with their abolition of the 10 per cent leeway which runs counter to the Australian Design rules for speedometers, chaos has ruled on our roads.

    Road Safety has become nothing more than a catch phrase to cover blatant revenue raising as far as the motoring public is concerned with Mr and Mrs average motorist supplying the bulk of the fine revenue as a result of straying a few kilometres over the poorly posted and inconsistent speed limits.

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    It has been my firm contention that if Mr Bracks thinks it is so easy to always drive within those limits, his government should bite the bullet and fit accurate externally visible speedometers to ALL taxpayer funded vehicles!

    We (The long suffering taxpayer and motorist) could then easily monitor the accuracy of our own speedometers AND report instances where government funded vehicles stray OVER the posted speed limits

    With the thousands of taxpayer funded vehicles on our roads this would have a more than positive effect upon speeding and Road Safety if that is the TRUE object of this governments best revenue earner!

    The tip of the Iceberg!

    Well Folks this mornings Sun Herald headlines (16/3/2005) indicate that 42 of the MP's taxpayer funded motor cars Have actually been caught speeding, one at up to 35 kph over the posted 60 kph speed limit!

    I repeat my challenge Mr Bracks - Fit up those vehicles and then you will see how effective this anti speeding campaign can be as the reports flood into your departments - not only will it expose the extent of the iceberg, but it will show you the anger and resentment at the way this whole speed campaign has been revenue based from its inception!

    Just maybe, the ability to report a POLLIES CAR for speeding will divert our young motorists from speeding as a backlash reaction to your thoughtless anti motorist attitudes

    After all the psychology of this additional anti speeding strategy is right, in that we the motoring public can hardly breach road laws ourselves when we are flat out reporting breaches by government funded vehicles! and your MP's staff and families will be much much safer in the long run, due to their improved behaviour on our roads!

    Ken
    Last edited by Kenfuego; 16th March 2005 at 03:12 PM. Reason: minor typo

  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Did you get a ticket recently, Ken?


    This bit I simply don't understand:

    Road Safety has become nothing more than a catch phrase to cover blatant revenue raising as far as the motoring public is concerned with Mr and Mrs average motorist supplying the bulk of the fine revenue.....
    The Thicktorian Government have known for much longer than three years that road safety is nothing to do with hammering the public for speeding tickets.

    About 1967 they conducted a series of 'blitzes' on weekends that weren't holidays. They were two-day weekends of the kind that happen most weeks around Australia, and the first one saw a blitz with a pile of infringements issued for speeding offences.

    But it also saw mortuaries accept more bodies from road accidents than any previous two-day weekend in Victorian history.

    So, with much breast-beating and public display, the angry Minister for Transport (or was it Police?) announced that they would fix this! Another blitz would take place the next weekend, and there would be even more police on the roads of the Garden State!

    And so it proved to be... more police, more infringements. And (surprise, surprise!) more deaths. Another record!

    The process was repeated yet one more time. The third weekend saw yet another new high reached in deaths on Victorian roads for a normal weekend.

    What were they to do?

    Well, I guess they took some time to think about it this time. They were in trouble continuing the process, as police needed to catch up on their rostered days, and so they quietly did nothing.

    So what happened the fourth weekend?

    Well, for a start, it rained, and after a dry spell this turned lots of roads into skating rinks for a while. But the intrepid motorists still went out driving... some had to go to work, others to golf, others to visit Grandma. But they were good girls and boys and avoided each other very successfully.

    Zero deaths. Equalled the lowest number ever recorded on Victorian roads on a two-day weekend.

  3. #3
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    Speeding . favourite topics arise again.

    Speed Fine = Voluntary Tax. Don't speed, don't pay for it.

    Speed Limit is just that .. the LIMIT (not the limit PLUS a little bit), take 5 you won't have a problem. The limit of your petrol tank might be 56.7ltrs (to the brim) people don't seem to have trouble with the concept that you can't put 60.2 ltrs in without suffering the consequences. You can drive on the other side of the road if you like if willing to suffer the consequences

    Does the effort concentrating on speeding reduce the road toll, unproven. So I can see why people get angry.

    But IMAGINE the Govt not getting a single red cent from speed fines if everyone stayed below the limit ? That would cause some serious concerns (revenue wise). NO SPEED month !!!

    Unfortunately Mr and Mrs average are just too DUMB to pull this trick off.

    Don't worry next step is fitting GPS devices to all cars and they won't need speed cameras, it'll just fine you every time you go over the designated limit. So enjoy the golden age and freedom you have now, cause it ain't going to last.

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    You haven't worked it out yet, have you?

    It's not the fines we're worried about... it's the fact that one day this stands a chance of killing us!

    When are you going to wake up to the fact... I say fact!... that overt policing of uncomfortably low speed limits causes crashes?

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    how many truckies have accidents in the country ?

    these are the people that are always on the road doing the big miles
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    And your point is?

    Actually, I don't know if you're saying truckies are having accidents or not. But I'm scratching to try and see what relevance this is to what's been said so far?

    Or is there something you left out?

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    well they drive at this so called dangerous low speed so i want to know how many truckies are involved in fatal accidents

    speed limits in this country can never be changed untill the driving public are educated on how to drive safely

    the limits are there to protect everyone

    i'm not condoning the revenue but limits have to be set
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    ...slaps himself in the forehead and goes off to visit the toad pond....

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    I was "caught" doing 64 in a 60 zone when I know full well I was doing 60. As soon as that letter arrived in my mailbox Mr Bracks lost my vote. Ooooh, how much am I looking forward to the next election!!
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by pugrambo
    well they drive at this so called dangerous low speed so i want to know how many truckies are involved in fatal accidents

    speed limits in this country can never be changed untill the driving public are educated on how to drive safely

    the limits are there to protect everyone

    i'm not condoning the revenue but limits have to be set
    Right on one count, anyway...

    The public do need to be educated. Largely, however, because they've been 'educated' in the 'speed kills' school, which is a school of ignorance.

    1. Trucks are a different beast to a car, both to drive and to crash. Within reason, the current speed limits suit them.

    2. Limits are protecting very few, if any.

    3. Limits do not have to be set on the open highway. This was proved by the change from prima facie limits to outright limits.

    Now... how long does it take you to drive to Young?

  11. #11
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    .....I look forward to the day where Ray will agree with Rambo to at least some extent....This is becoming boring RAY.....Everyyyy time Rambo replys....surely you will follow with a negative.....I for one have agreed with Rambos views on many occasions and see where he s coming from.....Why is it that you need to be so argumentative????

    As for speeding......

    Yes there should be limits....but the fact remains that what Ken has said makes sense.....The government is abusing its power for profit.....and its not fair considering their policy is not inline with the callibration of most speedos....let alone some cruise controls....blah blah blah...

    As for NO SPEED month....yes this would be great....but what are the chances if all VIc motorists started obeying speed limits that they would soon introduce other laws to make money from......
    My opinion is that speed is not the "major" killer.....Stupid human mistakes, inexperience, etc etc......
    I for one would like to see a whole heap more UNMARKED cars on the road....Everything from old volvos to skylines driven by coppers,.....
    I think many would think twice about speeding then.....
    It would be important that officers be given sufficient discretionary powers where motorist can be warned after commiting <10% offences....
    ....(or have the book thrown at them for excessive stunts)

    It would be a nice day if one day one could be pulled over and an officer simply tells you to take it easy and slow down and simply lets you go.....
    Current speed legislation is not only creating heatred toward the government but our officers...which is unfair and uncalled for (re officers)....


    cheers


    dino
    Last edited by dino; 16th March 2005 at 05:13 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by XTC206
    Speeding . favourite topics arise again.

    Speed Fine = Voluntary Tax. Don't speed, don't pay for it.

    Speed Limit is just that .. the LIMIT (not the limit PLUS a little bit), take 5 you won't have a problem. The limit of your petrol tank might be 56.7ltrs (to the brim) people don't seem to have trouble with the concept that you can't put 60.2 ltrs in without suffering the consequences. You can drive on the other side of the road if you like if willing to suffer the consequences

    Does the effort concentrating on speeding reduce the road toll, unproven. So I can see why people get angry.

    But IMAGINE the Govt not getting a single red cent from speed fines if everyone stayed below the limit ? That would cause some serious concerns (revenue wise). NO SPEED month !!!

    Unfortunately Mr and Mrs average are just too DUMB to pull this trick off.

    Don't worry next step is fitting GPS devices to all cars and they won't need speed cameras, it'll just fine you every time you go over the designated limit. So enjoy the golden age and freedom you have now, cause it ain't going to last.

    - xTc -
    Maybe the Government should be calibrating all our speedos then...at their cost. Why should u have to pay $128 for going 2 kmh over a limit the government considers safe for all drivers, regardless of ability? Do you believe if ever the government has the technology to not only MEASURE but CONTROL and ADJUST our speed with GPRS, will they do it? I beleive SPEED only kills to a certain extent. A kid could get killed by a bozo doing 50 kmh in a 50 zone but be spared by a good driver going 65 kmh in the same zone..

    Having lived in Europe makes it hard for me to accept a lot of things that happen on the road here. For one, freeway limits are too low here, i used to think. But when u see how people drive here, its no wonder. It would be too unsafe for people to be cruising at 160 kmh+ in Australia. People in Europe have to really learn how to drive b4 they hit the roads.

    For years ive always held a grudge for truck drivers in Australia because u see them on right lanes everywhere, overtaking other trucks, three a breast down a 3 lane freeway....in Europe, trucks always stick to the left lanes and never hold up traffic. If a truck was caught in the fast lane in Europe there would be a line of drivers behind him ready to give him the finger

    A few weeks ago i realised that maybe, its not their fault after all; all these bozos doing 80 kmh on the 100 kmh will have to be passed, whether your a car, bike or a TRUCK

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    IMO....aussie truck drivers are some of the best drivers on the roads (yes I ve had a few stupid morons on my back a few times as if they were gods of the road)...Majority I believe are very good....


    cheers


    dino

    (ok, one might exclude AU POST trucks from this equation )

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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by dino
    .....My opinion is that speed is not the "major" killer.....Stupid human mistakes, inexperience, etc.....
    Right! Good on you for recognising that!

    But I can't agree with the hidden police out there... we need people to look where they're going not in their mirrors.

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    [QUOTE=Ray Bell]Did you get a ticket recently, Ken?


    No I haven't Ray

    I drive rather carefully, but close to the speed limits, but I must admit that I find it increasingly hard to maintain safe distances with the inconsistent speeds of drivers and the unpredictable nature of traffic.

    I have been heavily involved with formulation of Road Safety Strategies over many years- fought with the frustration of a lack of accurate statistical data due to incompatible computer programs and petty jealousies between agencies who all claim to be solving the problems of collisions, in their budget requests. Working together is lip service instead of mandatory!

    There is a real industry of Government agencies competing with each other and after a while dealing with them you wonder if they are fair dinkum in resolving the road toll as then a major reason for their massive budgets would dissapear.

    The most bizzare thing is the entry of the social engineers into the equation and a series of weird strategies pushed by anti motoring lobbiest's who see the motor car and the motorist as redundant to society.

    The thought that some motorists get joy out of driving their motor cars responsibly is anathema to them, we should all be either riding bicycles or taking public transport according to these killjoys.

    I personally am not worried about a heavy policing presence on our roads as at least when they (police) intercept you unlike the camera you are informed on the spot and have an opportunity to give your reason for the infringement and to defend the matter in a proper court of law.

    Unfortunately there has been an equally strong trend for governments to prevent or make it difficult (costly/fruitless) for motorists to have their day in court, automatic fines, PERRIN systems, owner onus etc have lead certain sections of the motoring public to just pay fines rather than go to the trouble of defending them, even though they may be aggrieved (as you see so often on this forum) and strongly believe they did not commit any offence!!

    These easy marks at the lowest end of the gravity of offence chain has lead to a concentratuion of effort and marketing (heaps of money spent) to keep this revenue stream open, even though research may indicate that safer roads, less sign and design clutter will better save lifes and prevent injury collissions.

    And Ray I wouldn't want you to think that the saturation Blitz was abandoned due to a strain on police resources, if you watched the early TV footage of all the traffic police wheeling out of their depots, what you were seeing was two shifts of police motor cycles and cars, plus spares driven out past the TV cameras - around the block and back into the garage!

    Still you did see a few more police cars on the road but that of course is so much more expensive than a passive "speed" camera system. Theme today is spend less on roads and more on "social engineering" while taking more money from cash cows into government revenue.

    Road safety proactive programs have been cost shifted from direct Government funding and now have to beg funding from private industry and councils to contribute from ratepayers funds etc. Bike path funding is slashed from freeway developments and designs modified not for safety but green considerations.

    But its not all doom and gloom, there are computer programs powerful enough to graphically depict trends in Govt. spending against accident trauma data and expose the true level of direct and indirect taxation paid by each area of a community in proportion to their specific needs and if used correctly can keep things accountable

    Ken (still trying my best for the safety of road users)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mistareno
    ...slaps himself in the forehead and goes off to visit the toad pond....

    Richard, you've just passed the first test to become a motorcycle cop!
    (very old in joke!)

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell

    Now... how long does it take you to drive to Young?

    on my own with no one in the car it takes me about 1hr 10mins

    i have done it in an hour

    now you are going to tell me that i was speeding yet i am still here to tell the tale

    that's fine but even though i could learn a lot more about driving a car i do consider myself fairly experienced behind the wheel

    that time to young is my normal time and is not something that anyone should be proud of saying they can do it but one day something might happen and i won't be here to tell the tale
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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I rest my case.

    It's all right to come out on the side of these inane limits as long as you can make yourself immune to them on occasion.

    And you wouldn't be doing it if you really believed it would kill you.

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    XTC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    When are you going to wake up to the fact... I say fact!... that overt policing of uncomfortably low speed limits causes crashes?
    Like WHERE our speed limits are neither uncomfortable or unrealistic ... how far are you off the road at 100kph in 0.5 of a second (a micro-nap or sneeze for example) .. a bloodly long way. If you didn't SPEED they wouldn't BOTHER to police you .. Der .... Why is it that people can't take responsibility for their own actions any more ?? Blame the Govt, Blame the sun moons and stars, we know who's really to blame.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Bell
    I rest my case.

    It's all right to come out on the side of these inane limits as long as you can make yourself immune to them on occasion.

    And you wouldn't be doing it if you really believed it would kill you.

    but the thing is the limits are there to protect people

    through life we have boundaries and this is one of them

    not everyone can drive that road in that time and if they did then how many people would be around to tell the tale

    i used to travel macquarie pass in under 5mins and probably still can but again not every driver out there can do it and if they tried they would end up off the side or in the wall

    everyone is different and everyone has different talents

    sure you could train everyone but not everyone that is driving a car will be able to do the same thing or drive to the same standards so there has to be a limit and the one that is set is the one that has been deemed achievable by the majority of motorists
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    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

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    I think that if you introduced mandatory driver education like in Germany for example, that unless the government paid for it ( as if) then you would just knock so many people out of driving. A good way to start would be to introduce an advanced license where you can display an "A" plate for example and on freeways you could do 150 etc. Many people would get that if they could afford it, and after a while you would find that driver education would improve. Who is going to spend $3,000 on driver training unless they can get a benefit from it.
    You could also give these drivers cheaper 3rd party insurance and registration etc etc etc.
    They'll never do it though............
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pugnut403
    I think that if you introduced mandatory driver education like in Germany for example, that unless the government paid for it ( as if) then you would just knock so many people out of driving. A good way to start would be to introduce an advanced license where you can display an "A" plate for example and on freeways you could do 150 etc. Many people would get that if they could afford it, and after a while you would find that driver education would improve. Who is going to spend $3,000 on driver training unless they can get a benefit from it.
    You could also give these drivers cheaper 3rd party insurance and registration etc etc etc.
    They'll never do it though............
    This simply will not work .... Speed differential being the major consideration. I heard recently that 'P' platers in NSW are only allowed to do 80km/h. IMO this is the most stupid ludicrous law I have seen in quite a while. Your traveling at the speed limit of 110km/h (ie: not speeding) and suddenly find out of the blue a car doing 80km/h ... That's a 30km/h speed differential ie: that is BLOODY DANGEROUS ...

    Now have some drivers doing 150km/h, they can't see a dip in the road as they come around a corner and accelerate back to 150km/h, suddenly a 'P'plater appears in a dip, we now have a speed differential of 70km/h ... No imagination is required to know what will happen next.......

    Either every car on the road MUST drive at 150, or none (unless it 4lanes wide and ILLEGAL to move into the inside lanes at lower speeds).

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    but there are more people on the road today than there was when the de restriction signs were in place

    so in other words if everyone just got out there from today and drove at what they think is a comfortable speed for them the road toll will go down ?

    the same level of training today as there was then to get a license

    i'm afraid the countries hospitals will fill up fairly quickly

    you can't compare then to now
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    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


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    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    But none of this applies to you?

    You have no idea of the hypocrisy that comes across in what you are posting.

    The open roads, in most cases, carry no more traffic than they ever did. The main arteries have been improved out of sight, as have cars, and where they haven't the forces of traffic will slow all down.

    One of your problems is you don't do enough miles to see these things...

  25. #25
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    Im not sure of all of the above but all governments use these speed cameras as cash cows. . Its sick and a joke.

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