Which Frog to Jump At?
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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default Which Frog to Jump At?

    OK, This is going to set the Moggie into the winged rats, I know.

    We are contemplating getting out of the 505 Familiale and into something smaller. Mrs P would like a small car after about 20 years of driving 7 & 8 seat monsters to and from the Kindergarten, as well as everywhere else. )And who could blame her)

    Her requirements are that it be auto, small, and she'd prefer red! I would also like it to be four door, with enough rear legroom that we can carry my 83 year old parents at a pinch.

    Over the years we have had Renaults (R10, R4, R6, R16, R12), four Citroens, (DS23, CX2400 x2, D-Special) and many Peugeots (504, 504 Fam, 604, 505 Famx2) She has enjoyed the driveability of all of these, but really hated steering the DS, and won't drive the current DS at all. (Her loss!)

    My question is, what should we be looking at? I sort of favour a 306, but she is keen to sample a Clio, and maybe a Megane. I can't talk her into a BX at all, and a C3 has no rear legroom.

    My leaning towards the 306 is based on the conservative Pug engineering that we know and love, plus I reckon it just looks right. Having said that, I'm not locked in to anything yet, but it has to be roughly the size of the 306 to curry favour with Mrs P.

    I welcome unbiased and objective opinions.

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  2. #2
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    are you just looking at something medium/small with 4 doors, or something with a bit more poke. if you can't get her to think about a BX what about a 405, if you've got your heart set on a 306 an N5 XSi or N5 face lift XT would be the way to go. The clio is really in my opinion a bit small to have 4 people in it, and the 4 doors don't really have all that much poke. There's also the Xsara to look at if you want another citroen, or if you want something newer what about a 206, or maybe as much as i don't like them a 307
    Last edited by orestes; 14th March 2005 at 10:51 PM.

  3. #3
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    what about a 405

    probably a little more leg room that the 306 but it comes with a boot

    not an overly big car and still small enough to motor around the burbs in
    3 x '78 604 SL

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  4. #4
    Moderator Alan S's Avatar
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    Given the price some of the Xantias are selling for, why not look at a Xantia?
    My missus doesn't have a problem with the BX as an everyday runner; it helps if you give them an option; the BX or them



    Alan S
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  5. #5
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    I've driven all three, and I'd say that if cost is no object, go for the Megane (or a 307 as suggested). If it's a big consideration, look for a good 306 XSi (I owned one for four years and regret ever selling it). As a compromise, by all means look at a four-door 206, as well as a Clio, which is not quite everyone's cup of tea.
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  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Xsara

    The Xsara has a lot going for it well equiped and 2000cc available basicaly used 306 mechanicals. Seem to sell for less than Peugeot equivalent so good value to be had.

    406 is also good value plenty of room and comfort plus in 2000cc very economical. Has two air bags that puts it ahead of 405 in my book now.

    Graelin

  7. #7
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graelin
    The Xsara has a lot going for it well equiped and 2000cc available basicaly used 306 mechanicals. Seem to sell for less than Peugeot equivalent so good value to be had.

    406 is also good value plenty of room and comfort plus in 2000cc very economical. Has two air bags that puts it ahead of 405 in my book now.

    Graelin
    if you get a late model.. march 94 onwards, it will also have an airbag, so you're maybe missing out on 1 airbag, but getting everything the 406 has at a cheaper price

  8. #8
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    if you get a late model.. march 94 onwards, it will also have an airbag, so you're maybe missing out on 1 airbag, but getting everything the 406 has at a cheaper price

    The second airbag kind of appeals to me when im passenger and wife driving!!

    I had earlier 405 MI16 and my brother has 94 SRI model, they are very good cars and in Perth seem to be holding value for late models. See advertised from $6,500 - $8,500 406 now generaly 97 models around $13,ooo.

    Saw a 406 diesel in good cond advertised for $6,500 which could be an option.

    Graelin

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default sorry

    405 diesel meant in last post

    Graelin

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input so far, peoples. Mrs P doesn't fancy a 405, reckons it's too big. The 306 is just about the right size, and I personally strongly dislike the forward sloping A pillars on the 206/307. (A design "feature" shared by many other cars at present, including the Toyota Echo.) I find these type of pillars really intrusive. What's the point of having a car that sticks to the road well when you are constantly peering around an obstruction in your sight line?

    All that being said, I would love a 406, but this is also perceived to be too big. I haven't driven a Xsara, but if it's got a Citroen badge, I want hydro-pneumatic. If it's a Pug, I can manage without it!

    The amount of grunt isn't entirely an issue. A 2 litre would be nice, but the basic models would do the job as well. As with all our cars, the main thing will be reliability, which is once again why I lean towards the Pug. We've only had good experiences with all our previous ones.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

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    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
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  11. #11
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    Default No pressure but good service

    Pottsy

    Don't know where you are in Melbourne, but if in the Nunawading area, take Mrs P to see Dianne (Australdi on FF) at Garry Warren Smith's Nunawading Yard. (in Canterbury Road, near Springvale Road)

    They have some good deals going with either new or used Renaults and Dianne will see that she is treated well, given all the time she needs to choose what she wants and no high pressure tactics.

    Di's taken a few days leave, but will be back on deck there by Friday this week.

    Ken

  12. #12
    Good Sport danielsydney's Avatar
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    The Renault 21 and 25 are another option....

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy
    Thanks for the input so far, peoples. Mrs P doesn't fancy a 405, reckons it's too big. The 306 is just about the right size, and I personally strongly dislike the forward sloping A pillars on the 206/307. (A design "feature" shared by many other cars at present, including the Toyota Echo.) I find these type of pillars really intrusive. What's the point of having a car that sticks to the road well when you are constantly peering around an obstruction in your sight line?

    All that being said, I would love a 406, but this is also perceived to be too big. I haven't driven a Xsara, but if it's got a Citroen badge, I want hydro-pneumatic. If it's a Pug, I can manage without it!

    The amount of grunt isn't entirely an issue. A 2 litre would be nice, but the basic models would do the job as well. As with all our cars, the main thing will be reliability, which is once again why I lean towards the Pug. We've only had good experiences with all our previous ones.
    Why don't you try and get her to at least drive a 406 or Xantia before canning them. The Xantia has a tiny turning circle, I consider it a small car myself. They even come with a slugomatic gearbox too .... if you desire. It's going to be a quantem leap forward from an 8seater 504 wagon (as will a 406). The Xantia also provides the hatchback capability of folding down the rear seats to fit a load of gear in the back that the 406 lacks.

    Limiting yourself to the little cars really does dramatically reduce your options.

    Would she consider a Renault Megane ?

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  14. #14
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy
    The amount of grunt isn't entirely an issue. A 2 litre would be nice, but the basic models would do the job as well. As with all our cars, the main thing will be reliability, which is once again why I lean towards the Pug. We've only had good experiences with all our previous ones.
    you could get an early model 8v 2.0l XT or XSi for next to nix for what the car is if money is an issue.The XSi's are also comonly available in auto to.

    if body shape is not an issue the 306 sedans are a little cheaper, and have a bit more leg room in the back then the 306 hatches, and are still a good car. EDIT: i should also say that they probably won't have had such a hard life as the hatchbacks by this stage of there life as well

    have a look through this http://www.drive.com.au/used/search/...l=33&tm=A&sf=2
    Last edited by orestes; 16th March 2005 at 04:10 PM.

  15. #15
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    Default 406

    After owning 406 and Xsara I feel that the 406 is probably easier to drive in that the visability to the rear quarter is excellent. Certainly does not feel a big car to drive and worth trying.

    Graelin

  16. #16
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    I purchased a Clio Expression automatic late last year. Now travelled 7000 km.

    Has been trouble free except for an intermittent solenoid problem in the auto transmission, causing the transmission warning light to come on. This was fixed under warranty with no hassles and has not recurred. It took only two working days for the dealer to get the part and I was provided with a courtesy car free of charge. The only other issue is a heatshield/exhaust rattle which accassionally occurs when accelerating at around 1500 RPM. I may get that looked at eventually, but I'm not too concerned.

    Appart from the above, the car has been completely trouble-free, rattle free, fun to drive, economical, surprisingly quick, quiet and comfortable. The build quality and finish is of a high standard, and the car feels strong and safe.

    Driving position and visibility is excellent and confidence inspiring. Handling, roadholding and brakes are brilliant, as you would expect from a Renault.

    With the little 1.4 litre motor and auto tranny you would think it would be a slug but this is definetly not the case. At highway speeds the Clio is really zippy and climing Constitution Hill and Spring Hill on the Midlands highway at 110 km with three or four people and luggage on board is a breeze, with plenty in reserve. Likewise, overtaking is a breeze: if you boot it the auto drops back to third so the engine is in its sweet spot, then zooooommm...

    My one gripe is one that others have mentioned with regard to the programming of the autobox in these cars. AFTER accelating FLAT OUT then easing off the throttle, it sometimes holds on to low gears for too long. But in normal driving, the auto is excellent and I especially like the downshifting that occurs under brakes and when suddenly lifting of the throttle. It makes the car feel more sporty and responsive than autos usually do and will reduce brake pad wear.

    They are a quality car. Be sure to take one for a drive.
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  17. #17
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by frogs4ever
    I purchased a Clio Expression automatic late last year. Now travelled 7000 km ... They are a quality car. Be sure to take one for a drive.
    I agree -- nice little car, isn't it? Just watch out for the connections under the front seats, which are easily dislodged if you let anything get near them. Shows up as an airbag warning light ...
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  18. #18
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr bern
    I agree -- nice little car, isn't it? Just watch out for the connections under the front seats, which are easily dislodged if you let anything get near them. Shows up as an airbag warning light ...
    Sounds familiar, Mr Bern. Maybe the seats (or the airbag connectors) were designed by the same person on the 206 and the Clio.
    Regards,

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  19. #19
    1000+ Posts mr bern's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206
    Sounds familiar, Mr Bern. Maybe the seats (or the airbag connectors) were designed by the same person on the 206 and the Clio.
    Must be something about the design of the floorpan, SLC, because I've never had the problem in the 206 (though I know that others have), yet it seems to be a bit of a recurrent hazard in the Clio ...
    MY15 208GTi

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  20. #20
    wielder of the sword Australdi's Avatar
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    Icon1 Gee, thanks 4 the plug Dad

    Hi Pottsy & Mrs P
    ....From what you have told us, from the renault corner, I would be leaning towards the megane (Hatch or sedan) rather than the clio due to the rear leg room, however as Dad mentioned, I would be happy to show both of you both cars (and others) if you would like.
    cheers
    Aus (di)
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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    So that's where those bloody renukis come from, and just when I'd finished ridding the world of those damned suzaults, oh well, back to the long coloured underwear it is!

    Pretty toffee Ausdi, introduction agent, any marriages yet?

    ed ge

    welcome back

  22. #22
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    I think Pottsy's made it clear that the 406/Xantia is too big, whether this is just for the confidence of Mrs P or not, it matters...

    So, Potts, it's gotta be the 306, preferably an XSi.

    These cars still look fantastic (you can spend time just looking at the lines), and good late models are pretty common. Probably one of the best looking hatchbacks ever, plenty of room, peerless handling, good grunt in the 2.0, and lot to mention quite a few around so you can get second hand panels, etc. at a pinch.

    Plus they're big enough to account for growing kids, whereas a Clio is a bit small, IMO.

    Stuey


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  23. #23
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuey
    I think Pottsy's made it clear that the 406/Xantia is too big, whether this is just for the confidence of Mrs P or not, it matters...

    So, Potts, it's gotta be the 306, preferably an XSi.

    These cars still look fantastic (you can spend time just looking at the lines), and good late models are pretty common. Probably one of the best looking hatchbacks ever, plenty of room, peerless handling, good grunt in the 2.0, and lot to mention quite a few around so you can get second hand panels, etc. at a pinch.

    Plus they're big enough to account for growing kids, whereas a Clio is a bit small, IMO.

    Stuey
    If you measure the wheelbase on a 306 and a Xantia, you'll be surprised how little difference there is. We have both and if she wants a smaller car that has surprising size inside, the 306 is it. However, Xantias are a whole lot cheaper, and there are always about a dozen for sale on the web. For the 306 however, there's a much larger range for sale and a much better chance of getting a red one!!!

    I love them both but they are sooo different. Can I suggest avoiding a 16 valve engine? Stick with the low down torque for driveability for Mrs Potts.

    Cheers

    JohnW

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    What can I say. I'm overwhelmed with choice!

    With Mrs P the size issue (of the car you dirty minded individuals!) is not one of confidence, it's simply one of wanting to change. She's spent the past 20 odd years driving a succession of 504 and 505 wagons, with passion, panache, verve, and only occasional contact. Now that the rugrats have all grown up, one person in a wagon the size of a small destroyer is a bit like a pea in a whistle. She hankers for a combination of small size and creature comforts. (Ever since driving No1 son's 205 Gti)

    Having also experienced the exceptional handling qualities of the 505 Gti wagon, and it really does belie its size, she is very keen to have a car which can "zoom round corners!". Friends have just purchased a Zsara and we'll have a close look at this very soon. From my viewpoint, a 306 is still top of the list, but the small Renaults and Citroens are still in the purview!

    Di, we will come and sample your wares when time (and funds) permits.

    Thanks for all the input Froggie People. Take a croak out of petty cash!
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") On the road! (Woohoo!)
    1957 Slough 2CV ("Alphonse") Waiting in the wings
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Also waiting in the wings
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  25. #25
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy
    What can I say. I'm overwhelmed with choice!

    With Mrs P the size issue (of the car you dirty minded individuals!) is not one of confidence, it's simply one of wanting to change. She's spent the past 20 odd years driving a succession of 504 and 505 wagons, with passion, panache, verve, and only occasional contact. Now that the rugrats have all grown up, one person in a wagon the size of a small destroyer is a bit like a pea in a whistle. She hankers for a combination of small size and creature comforts. (Ever since driving No1 son's 205 Gti)

    Having also experienced the exceptional handling qualities of the 505 Gti wagon, and it really does belie its size, she is very keen to have a car which can "zoom round corners!". Friends have just purchased a Zsara and we'll have a close look at this very soon. From my viewpoint, a 306 is still top of the list, but the small Renaults and Citroens are still in the purview!

    Di, we will come and sample your wares when time (and funds) permits.

    Thanks for all the input Froggie People. Take a croak out of petty cash!
    I'd go for the 306 without hesitation then. The 306 was a revelation for me (althought that was 10 years ago). Just check both engines first.

    JohnW

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