French Car influence
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Default French Car influence

    Hi,
    Having decided to look for a late model 505 Wagon we have been discussing various French cars we have owned or driven . They are as follows.

    Driven:
    Renault 750, R8, R8 Gordini, 12, 14, Fregate.
    Pushed and towed arouns Maision Motos Courtyard and Adelaide Tce in
    Renault "Shooting Star"
    Bugatti Type 57
    Delahaye
    Facel Vega HK 500
    Simca Vedette
    Delage

    Owned:
    Dauphine,
    54 Simca 8,56, 59, 61, 62 Simca Aronde
    Peugeot 504 70, 71, 73 and 78. 1987 505

    Our race mechanic used to say all French cars were designed for left handed mechanics who could work upside down with one hand while needing three.

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    There is definitely something about the roadholding, braking and general feel of all French cars.

    Warren
    Last edited by Westair; 22nd January 2005 at 06:25 PM.
    1986 Renault Fuego GTX
    1972 Mercedes Benz 280E
    1988 Nissan Trakka Campervan
    1972 VW Kombi

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default French car influence

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Hi,
    Having decided to look for a late model 505 Wagon we have been discussing various French cars we have owned or driven . They are as follows.

    Driven:
    Renault 750, R8, R8 Gordini, 12, 14, Fregate.
    Bugatti Type 57
    Delahaye
    Facel Vega HK 500

    Owned:
    Dauphine,
    54 Simca 8,56, 59, 61, 62 Simca Aronde
    Peugeot 504 70, 71, 73 and 78. 1987 505

    Our race mechanic used to say all French cars were designed for left handed mechanics who could work upside down with one hand while needing three.

    There is definitely something about the roadholding, braking and general feel of all French cars.

    Warren
    Warren I'm impressed by your cars driven list.

    Your cars owned is almost identical as my own. Spooky!
    Apart from the Dauphine and 505 my list of French cars owned began with a
    1952 Simca 8 1200, four door pillarless with the dreadfull DuBonnet front suspension After that came a '57/58 Aronde Elysee. Then a Montlhery with the Flash Special engine. A good looker this one with its distinctive side trim and rubber bumper over riders. One of its previous owners ran it in one of the 6 hour races at Caversham.

    You mentioned your race mechanic. Luxury! I had a go at racing my Aronde Elysee in the '61 [I think] 6 hour at Caversham. The big'n's cried enough at the 3 hour mark. Returned the following year with a few extra fittings to see out the full 6 hours and it did with a class result. Felt good when some of the big money trade entries didn't make it.

    No doubt you will hear from some of the other old Simca owners on the Forum

  3. #3
    Banned orestes's Avatar
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    Hereís our family line up. My dad until recently drive nothing other then 504's but now has upgraded to an SRDT, my mother on the other hand drove a lot of Japanese and Australian cars until she came to her senses and now drives pugs. Iíve never gotten behind the wheel of anything without a Peugeot badge on it. my brother drives Japanese cars though at least he has taste, being the 4AGE powered, AE86 Toyota Sprinter.

    Owned: Peugeot 205 Automatic, 504 Ti

    family owned, but have been driven by me: 505 SRDT, 306 XR, 504 Peugeot 504 Familiae 7 seater (Spelling??, not sure if seats are right ??)

    Family owned: 203,404,DS pallas, 504's (at least 10 if not more in just about every configuration except for LTi's) 505 SRDT, 505 SR, 306 XR.

    my favorite car: the white 504 TI we owned with early French blue velour seats, and the racing wheel.

    French cars Iíd like to have in my garage in order of age: 2x Peugeot 203's one stock and fully restored the other a Peugeot 203 with an Mi16 engine and a BA10/5, a fully restored 1968 model 504 with the French velour seats, racing wheel, electric windows, central locking, aircon and a 2l Ti engine with a ba7/5 box, a DS Pallas, 4x 205's, a 1.6l GTi with close ratio gearbox, a 1.9l GTi, a 205 Mi16, and a 205 T16 a 309 GTi16, a BX 16v and a BX 16v x 4, a 405 Mi16, 405 Mi16x4, and a 405 T16, a 306 GTi-6, a 406 coupe, a Renault Clio V6, and a 206 GTi 180.... Iím sorry Iím done dreaming now ... maybe when i win gold lotto i'll buy these cars, a block of land big enough to house them and build a shed big enough to house them all
    Last edited by orestes; 21st January 2005 at 03:24 AM.

  4. #4
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I'm afraid I have to raise my hand as one of those Simca owners...

    A string of Arondes went through my hands in the late sixties. Otherwise I have owned a Light 15, 203s, 403s, 404s (by the dozen) and 504s, with a couple of 505s I've had to wreck.

    Other French cars in my life are limited... a neighbour had a Vedette... a friend showed me a photo of his old Delage... I remember walking past a parked 202 and I know some people with IDs, SMs, CXs (talked one of them into keeping his about ten years longer than he normally would have...) and I've seen some of the smaller ones from a distance.

    Renaults? Had a 16TS that was ending its life, bought it mainly to get the engine as I ran one of these in my Clubman that I raced. There was a Renault 12 rear axle left behind when my first wife left the place with her boyfriend and I resumed living there... and I've scabbed nuts and bolts of 750s and R8s at the tip.

    Those were the days...

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Forgot about the Vedette.

    You can see some Caversham photos at http://wms.8k.com/

    Warren

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
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    froggie cars owned (in model rather than chronological order)
    Peugeot
    203A
    203C
    305 SR
    309 GTi
    404 sedan (my first car!!)
    404 familiale
    404 ute
    404 coupe
    404 cabriolet (injected)
    405 GR
    405 Mi16
    504
    504Ti
    505 GTi

    Citroen BX19GT

    Negotiating to buy at the moment
    1903 de Dion Bouton (the mortal remains of one)


    Other frogs driven

    Citroen
    AX10
    Xantia S/W
    GS
    BX16V

    Delage
    Type CO (1919)
    DR70 (1929)

    Peugeot
    104
    205GR
    205 GTi
    206 XR
    206 HDi
    306XSi
    403
    405 STi
    405 SRDT
    406 HDI
    504 ute
    505 STi
    604
    605 SV (2.0l 4 cyl)
    605 V6

    Renault
    12
    20
    25
    Fuego

    Drives arranged but not yet taken up
    Bugatti Type 37A
    Facel Vega

    So many more cars to drive.
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

  7. #7
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    Westair, good to see yet another WA member. We're getting quite a contingent now! Might even be able to have a WA get together at the next FCD.

    My family used to own a Shell roadhouse and were once given a Simca Aronde (no idea which model - I was only about 9 years of age) in exchange for a tank load of diesel in a truck! Just parked it next to the BSA Bantam and '52 Minx from other similar deals...

    Stuey


    2003 PEUGEOT 206 GTi

  8. #8
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Westair
    Forgot about the Vedette.

    You can see some Caversham photos at http://wms.8k.com/
    Hello Warren Matthews! Haven't seen you since the day Allan Tomlinson handed John Walker the trophy!

    The Simca on your site is a Monthlery... what's this about a Vedette?

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Gee's those poogoes must be bloody unreliable things going by the numbers of them you guys have had

    I've had two cars since I was 18 (after the old Renault 12). First was my CX2400 pallas, it didn't die, I just parked it up the back because I had a replacement. Then I got my current car ... The CX GTi ....

    Not much to brag about I guess

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: Of course I've still got other toys I bought around the yard, GS's, DS's, CX's etc.... But I've only used the 2cars listed above as my 'daily' cars.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Doesn't time fly.
    I wondered Ray Bell was from WA.
    The Vedette was missed off myl as was Delage.
    Still trying to work out who Wildebeest is.

    Drivers who regularly raced Simcas at Caversham were:
    Bob Avery, David Sadique, Mike Tighe, Bill Inwood, Terry Cunliffe, Geoff Shilkin ( 1 Six Hour), John Collins ( including Peugeot engined Simca), Murray Thomas, Dennis Peterkin, Leon Shenton , Darryl Manning and myself.
    Many Simca Club members attended sprint days as well.
    Hope I haven't missed anyone.

    Warren
    Last edited by Westair; 26th January 2005 at 12:35 PM.

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi kiwi 03, good news about finding a de Dion, and especially one so old, about time you moved from those old american cars

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    It wasn't Monthlery- just a brand new Rush (R61) which my wife and Terry's girlfriend drove all day running in until it had done 4000 miles.
    As it raced as stock production no mods allowed but we put in standard cam that had done about 240,000 miles, screwed tappets down to 6 thou. (Monthlery Chokes and jets etc.)
    Brakes were sintered metal.
    After the race all valves were replaced as the ends were just slighty mushroomed, the brake linings were great but the drums were stuffed.
    Stock cam went back in and car was used as road car and for occasional sprints and gymkhanas.

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default French Car Influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Doesn't time fly.
    I wondered Ray Bell was from WA.
    The Vedette was missed off myl as was Delage.
    Still trying to work out who Wildebeest is.

    Drivers who regularly raced Simcas at Caversham were:
    Bob Avery, David Sadique, Mike Tighe, Bill Inwood, Terry Cunliffe, Geoff Shilkin ( 1 Six Hour), John Collins ( including Peugeot engined Simca) Dennis Peterkin, Leon Shenton , Darryl Manning and myself.
    Many Simca Club members attended sprint days as well.
    Hope I haven't missed anyone.

    Warren
    Warren, there was a name you've missed. John Wilyman from Kalgoorlie.
    He dined out for ages relating stories of the Caversham 6 Hour races he entered in his '58 Simca Aronde. I think he's still doing it, sad bastard.

    I've been trying to answer your e mail, it keeps getting knocked back.

  14. #14
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    There is definitely something about the roadholding, braking and general feel of all French cars.



    Sorry but I think we need a little more analysis here please about why some people, indeed quite a lot (3000 on this forum), have ...I don't know, a certain "je ne sais quois" about french cars!

    Now, I can see how people with a love for machinery/design get attached to the older pugs (because they are old). And I can see how some folk get attached to the Pug-legends such as the 404 and the hot hatches (because they are legends) but ... the odd thing is that pugmania (is there any other name for it) seems to afflict buyers of newer pugs!

    Don't get me wrong! There's no harm in this but are some of us kidding ourselves about the lion's mythical status? And this issue has been partly thrashed out in the "Pug Protocol Thread" where, to digress for a second, an apparent contradiction is emerging. Puggers are complaining about other "snooty puggers" not giving them a pugwave, and in the same breath, protest about dealers selling other marques with the Peugeot! Like, "snootiness is fine so long as I'm not on the receiving end"!

    But back to my point, which I'm just about to make, perhaps for many of us, we go silly about Pugs not so much because the pug is anything special but simply because WE CHOSE TO BUY ONE? If we'd bought a VW Bora instead, would we be on VW Bora sites? I like the way my 307 handles but apparently a base Focus handles better as does, perhaps a Mazda3, and a BMW 1 would kick sand in its grill. So, every now and again (but not very often) I bring myself down to earth!

    Some motoring journos have described the Peugeot following as "fiercely loyal", "fanatical" but ... I want to know why and is it really justified. As posts in other threads have suggested, perhaps the Pug magic stopped at the 306? And if it did, what exactly was that "magic"? Was it just a particularly good handling car that didn't have too many competitors in that department but now... all the brands have caught up and alas...Peugeot is just ... another good in the shop that consumers buy because of its shape or if its got air-con or not?

    Last edited by lucamote2005; 22nd January 2005 at 12:33 AM.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildebeest
    Warren, there was a name you've missed. John Wilyman from Kalgoorlie.
    He dined out for ages relating stories of the Caversham 6 Hour races he entered in his '58 Simca Aronde. I think he's still doing it, sad bastard.

    I've been trying to answer your e mail, it keeps getting knocked back.
    Have sent you PM
    Remember Wilyman. I think they also came down one year in a Triumph 2000/2500 and tipped it over out of the Esses.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! Westair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lucamote2005
    There is definitely something about the roadholding, braking and general feel of all French cars.



    Sorry but I think we need a little more analysis here please about why some people, indeed quite a lot (3000 on this forum), have ...I don't know, a certain "je ne sais quois" about french cars!

    Now, I can see how people with a love for machinery/design get attached to the older pugs (because they are old). And I can see how some folk get attached to the Pug-legends such as the 404 and the hot hatches (because they are legends) but ... the odd thing is that pugmania (is there any other name for it) seems to afflict buyers of newer pugs!

    Don't get me wrong! There's no harm in this but are some of us kidding ourselves about the lion's mythical status? And this issue has been partly thrashed out in the "Pug Protocol Thread" where, to digress for a second, an apparent contradiction is emerging. Puggers are complaining about other "snooty puggers" not giving them a pugwave, and in the same breath, protest about dealers selling other marques with the Peugeot! Like, "snootiness is fine so long as I'm not on the receiving end"!

    But back to my point, which I'm just about to make, perhaps for many of us, we go silly about Pugs not so much because the pug is anything special but simply because WE CHOSE TO BUY ONE? If we'd bought a VW Bora instead, would we be on VW Bora sites? I like the way my 307 handles but apparently a base Focus handles better as does, perhaps a Mazda3, and a BMW 1 would kick sand in its grill. So, every now and again (but not very often) I bring myself down to earth!

    Some motoring journos have described the Peugeot following as "fiercely loyal", "fanatical" but ... I want to know why and is it really justified. As posts in other threads have suggested, perhaps the Pug magic stopped at the 306? And if it did, what exactly was that "magic"? Was it just a particularly good handling car that didn't have too many competitors in that department but now... all the brands have caught up and alas...Peugeot is just ... another good in the shop that consumers buy because of its shape or if its got air-con or not?

    Have you read history of Peugeot? They have done about everything in motoring and motorsport.
    I think they are still the only motor manufacturer to have won the following.
    Formula 1 World Championship
    World Rally Champions
    World Sports Car Champions
    Winner of Indianapolis 500
    Plus winners of classics road races.

    Still the only manufacturer to make many of their own components such as shock absorbers etc.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Wildebeest's Avatar
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    Default French Car influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Westair
    Have sent you PM
    Remember Wilyman. I think they also came down one year in a Triumph 2000/2500 and tipped it over out of the Esses.
    Westair,
    Triumph 2500 and Wilyman? Not in the same breath please! I'm sure the seat of his corduroys wouldn't be happy in anything but one of La Belle France's finest.

    Message received, mine should be on it's way.

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by petermelb
    Hi kiwi 03, good news about finding a de Dion, and especially one so old, about time you moved from those old american cars

    Hey man,you can' t beat vintage American if you want fast and reliable vintage transport without having to buy something worth half a house. And they are nice and simple for mechaical halfwits like me.

    The de Dion bits look good. Hopefully the deal will be done in the next month, then I can spend the rest of my life hunting down the rest of it.

    Cheers

    Tony
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    Gee's those poogoes must be bloody unreliable things going by the numbers of them you guys have had

    I've had two cars since I was 18 (after the old Renault 12). First was my CX2400 pallas, it didn't die, I just parked it up the back because I had a replacement. Then I got my current car ... The CX GTi ....

    Not much to brag about I guess

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: Of course I've still got other toys I bought around the yard, GS's, DS's, CX's etc.... But I've only used the 2cars listed above as my 'daily' cars.

    Unreliable??? Peuegot??? But I am sure you jest!!!

    The only unreliable car in my list was the bloody Shitroen. Poxy damned thing nearly bankrupted me! The second worst car I have owned, behind a supposed German sports coupe whose name isn't worth mentioning.

    And the list is only long because a boy needs lots of toys...
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hi Tony, I would be interested to see some de Dion pics once you have bought the parts. If you need a dD contact in Australia I may be able to help, there seem to be more over here than in NZ. I also know a dD owner in NZ who is very enthusiastic and may be help track down some bits.

    At the last Bendigo swapmeet there were two dD engines, one 1908 and one 1910, both single cylinder from memory, also seen an advert for a 4cyl a while back.

    And you would be aware of Depanoto in France......

    Georganos book shows a 1902 dD, I guess this would be similar to yours ?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by petermelb
    Hi Tony, I would be interested to see some de Dion pics once you have bought the parts. If you need a dD contact in Australia I may be able to help, there seem to be more over here than in NZ. I also know a dD owner in NZ who is very enthusiastic and may be help track down some bits.

    At the last Bendigo swapmeet there were two dD engines, one 1908 and one 1910, both single cylinder from memory, also seen an advert for a 4cyl a while back.

    And you would be aware of Depanoto in France......

    Georganos book shows a 1902 dD, I guess this would be similar to yours ?
    Hi

    Will keep you posted once the deal is done, and get some photos.

    Any help/knowledge will be very useful. A mate of my fathers has a restored 1902 dD, so I am hoping that it is the same, but I am not 100% sure yet.

    Definitely aware of Depanoto - I was there 18 months ago looking for '03 Peugeot type 54 bits for a mate in Wellington, and Fiat Zero bits for my brother.

    The plan is to go over to the Bendigo swapmeet this year.

    Cheers

    Tony
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    How about some piccies of the 203 while you at it. I can't even remember seeing one of them on the road. Maybe more of them survived in NZ

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron
    How about some piccies of the 203 while you at it. I can't even remember seeing one of them on the road. Maybe more of them survived in NZ

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Hi Shane

    I will e-mail you 203 pics. I have tried adding them to a post before but my lack of technical brains means I can't get the file small enough.

    You have actually got more 203's over ther than we did. Our wetter climate means most of them rusted away years ago.

    Our 203's look a bit different to yours as our cars have French bumpers, wheels and hubcaps whereas the ones on your side of the Tasman have local made ones

    Cheers

    Tony
    95 MI16
    71 404 U10 ute
    66 404 coupe
    55 203C (gently warmed) gone... sold...

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